NWN2: Storm of Zehir expansion (now confirmed)

[Hümmelgümpf]

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... opic=360.0

Most codexers cut themselves every 5 mins

The ironing is delicious.

 

[nomask7]

How is resting after every battle unrealistic?

Maybe it just seems unrealistic to me because I myself can't sleep more than perhaps 9 hours per day, every day. What's more important here though is that the system wasn't designed with that sort of excessive resting in mind, so obviously it would tend to unbalance the game and make it too easy. It's why it still took 8 hours in BG2 to rest: to simulate actual sleeping, which is required to regain spells, and is basically supposed to be possible only once per day (in PnP). But I guess so many people played asthough they were sloths instead of humans that game developers decided at some point to remove all allusions to actual sleeping or the passing of time, to make the slothful behaviour seem more acceptable, in keeping with the modern principle that whatever might hurt the kids' self-esteem has to be done away with. Both BG2 and NWN2 should have had resting limited to once per day, and battles designed that in mind. There was too much filler combat anyway. Both were like combat simulators, except bad ones, unlike ToEE, which was a good one. At least 80% of the combat should be interesting, challenging, somehow special, and combat shouldn't take so much of the playing time, especially when it's not turn-based. Travelling, walking, exploring, shouldn't take so much time either, and I suspect that the excessive combat is there to make the failed within-place travelling/exploration seem better done than it is. (The amount of time you spend just walking from place to place in these games without anything at all happening is pretty scary even with all that filler combat in those games.)

 

[Lumpy]

So what keeps a party of adventurers from just idly waiting 16 more hours and telling stories round the campfire until they get sleepy again? Nothing.
Limiting resting to once per day, and forcing you to do stuff for the rest of the day, is completely retarded.
D&D's spell system was shittily designed, and that's that.

 

[nomask7]

So what keeps a party of adventurers from just idly waiting 16 more hours and telling stories round the campfire until they get sleepy again?

Monsters sniffing out your lazy incompetent party? What does it matter? Being able to circumvent the rules doesn't mean that such circumvention should be made the new rule, as happened in NWN2. The spell system is just fine, assuming you're bright enough to use your spells economically. If you blast the first group of scary monsters you meet in a dungenon to smithereens and then have no spells left, who's to blame?

 

[Shannow]

Well, if any dev is still actually reading this, some general suggestion not just for NWN2:

While I like crafting I don't like books cluttering up my inventory. A tab in your journal for recipes seems a lot more streamlined.

Key rings for different keys is also a better option than "bronze key", "old key", "gold key" etc cluttering up the inventory.

I personally would also prefer a crafting interface to show up when I want to craft something. It should show all required items, spells and costs. No constant opening/closing containers, changing characters only to realize that you needed a faint power essence and not a weak power essence...

 

[Lumpy]

So what keeps a party of adventurers from just idly waiting 16 more hours and telling stories round the campfire until they get sleepy again?

Monsters sniffing out your lazy incompetent party?

And if I want to take that risk? Besides, I'm probably going to exterminate all the monsters in that cave. Wouldn't I rather want said monsters to attack me in my strategically chosen campground rather than have to attack them in the open?
If you make a spell system regenerated by sleeping, rather than with time, then you'd better impose some clear restrictions to resting rather than force the players to artificially impose some restriction so as not to make the game too easy.

 

[nomask7]

If you make a spell system regenerated by sleeping, rather than with time, then you'd better impose some clear restrictions to resting rather than force the players to artificially impose some restriction so as not to make the game too easy.

I agree. Either that, or timed quests which would make excessive resting a bad idea.

 

[nomask7]

Well, if any dev is still actually reading this, some general suggestion not just for NWN2:

While I like crafting I don't like books cluttering up my inventory. A tab in your journal for recipes seems a lot more streamlined.

Key rings for different keys is also a better option than "bronze key", "old key", "gold key" etc cluttering up the inventory.

I personally would also prefer a crafting interface to show up when I want to craft something. It should show all required items, spells and costs. No constant opening/closing containers, changing characters only to realize that you needed a faint power essence and not a weak power essence...

I think at this point they're only reading certain topics in their own forums, if even them.

 

[elander_]

Didn't know that you can only rest once a day in D&D PnP. I used to role play with GURPS. Anyway i'm against removing features when they can be made more useful. Limiting the player party to rest only once a day would be more credible. If you tried to rest the game would tell you that you are not tired. You party would become fatigued if they didn't rest for more than two days. I think the Might and Magic games worked this way. And since 3.5 already supports different methods to remember spells aparently, loitering would be useful to recall those spells that are time dependent and not resting dependent.

Resting could be made more useful with time dependent quests. However there is a problem with these kind of quests. Most Daggerfall quests were time dependent but they were also repeating quests. Those where the usual generic quests like go kill a rat inside someones house, go rob the painting or jewel that is inside merchants house without being seen, go kill this guy for the dark bortherhood of assassins, guard the holy candle at temple or the mages guilds and so on. The more cool quests are those that happen at certain events like holidays and summoning days.

If you are going to put these quests in the game it's better to make them repeatable.

D&D sucks my left nut. Dungeons and dragons is only good for making video games. And Lesifoere go fuck yourself you fucking bitch

Barbarian nerd rage against females activated.

 

[OSK]

Is gamefan another Dark Individual alt?

 

[Volourn]

"Both were like combat simulators, except bad ones, unlike ToEE, which was a good one. At least 80% of the combat should be interesting, challenging, somehow special, and combat shouldn't take so much of the playing time, especially when it's not turn-based."

HAHA! It's funny 'cause it's bullshit. TOEE fails on most of your points. HAHA!

 

[Texas Red]

Is gamefan another Dark Individual alt?

Not likely. I don't tell online women to go fuck themselves, not my style. I'm more of a charming pickup liner type

 

[Lesifoere]

I was going to say "Hmm, DI alt?" too, but then Dark Individual isn't quite so... angry.

 

[Shannow]

Is gamefan another Dark Individual alt?

Not likely. I don't tell online women to go fuck themselves, not my style. I ask them if they want to fuck me

Fixed.

 

[The Vanished One]

What would have helped BG 2 is Imoen dying and/or Game Over after, say, 21 days.

Imoen dying, maybe. Game Over, no. The first chapters are the best time to explore the gameworld.

 

[nomask7]

HAHA! It's funny 'cause it's bullshit. TOEE fails on most of your points. HAHA!

It's a good combat simulator, nothing more. My "points" were for good crpgs, not combat simulators. I explained that there was too much combat in BG2, and that it's basically a combat simulator and not even a good one. I mentioned ToEE as a side note, as an example of a good combat simulator. Then I went on to point out some of the characteristics of good rpgs, instead of good combat simulators. I guess I should have made that clearer for the logic disadvantaged.

 

[Volourn]

TOEE is a poor combat simulator. Combat simulators should, you know, pose some sort of challenge. It should be interesting, and it should be fun.

 

[Warden]

Why aren't the developers posting anymore? We want info!

 

[elander_]

TOEE is a poor combat simulator. Combat simulators should, you know, pose some sort of challenge. It should be interesting, and it should be fun.

It's a good combat simulator for the usual DnD player. It's certainly light years ahead of anything that NWN made, if not parsecs.

 

[AzraelCC]

Well, it may seem like blasphemy, but 4th ed has a 'fix' to the problem of resting in D&D. At will powers, encounter powers and daily powers ensure that the abuse of sleeping is eliminated. Sleeping may grant you daily powers again and again, but why do this when you have more powers that are encounter based of powers which can be used again and again? Also, 4th introduces the milestone concept, which grants bonuses if you are able to complete encounters with minimal rest.

Probably proves WoTC created 4th ed to be adopted immediately into a cRPG....

 

[Volourn]

"It's a good combat simulator for the usual DnD player"

Nope. TOEE has a great combat system; but the combat itself is poor. It's easy, uninteresting, and for the most part simply not fun with some exceptions. Sorry; but it's true.

 

[Jasede]

The "memorize spells" systems was great and worked well, unless your players were retarded. Of course most people are retarded, so it was changed. "WAAAAH I use all my fireballs on the first encounter and have no more spells, this sux!".

Edit: I agree with Volourn. The combat -system- in ToEE is beautiful. Really good work. The encounters, though? Boring and trite, and really, really forgettable.

 

[Volourn]

"WAAAAH I use all my fireballs on the first encounter and have no more spells, this sux!".

Pretty much sums up the anti memorization freaks to me.

 

[Anthony Davis]

Why aren't the developers posting anymore? We want info!

Heh, there is nothing to really add at this point, work continues.

 

[elander_]

You mean how they have balanced fights? The game is for noobies with a 10 level cap and the usual soup of low level D&D monsters. I don't see in what way they could have balanced fights better.