NWN2: Storm of Zehir expansion (now confirmed)

[nomask7]

As much as I hate to agree with Volourn, he's right in this at least. Seriously, did anyone ever find the random encounters that might happen upon your party in BG2 threatening? They were all shitty cannon fodder you could annihilate in two round flat, even with a thoroughly fatigued party.

Are you now asking for others' misguiding memory to affirm your own corrupted memory? I think it's pretty clear what I thought about the subject.

Also, BG2 offers the option to automatically heal to full HP while resting, so not sure what you're talking about there, either.

I used hardcore rules. Maybe you played it with normal ("hit point rolls are maximum, characters cannot permanently die, and all spells learned automatically"). But that doesn't seem to explain it... So what are you talking about? Did you use a "dumb BG2 further down mod"? Or are you confusing automatic use of remaining healing spells with automatic full HP while resting?

 

[Lesifoere]

I used hardcore rules. Maybe you played it with normal ("hit point rolls are maximum, characters cannot permanently die, and all spells learned automatically"). But that doesn't seem to explain it... So what are you talking about? Did you use a "dumb BG2 further down mod"? Or are you confusing automatic use of remaining healing spells with automatic full HP while resting?

I don't have it installed and no longer remember what the option I checked was, but whatever it was, when you rest with it on, you can rest up to... well, a long time. Twenty-plus hours, not just eight.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Storm of Zehir will be 3.5 or 4E?

 

[Jasede]

lol

 

[OSK]

Storm of Zehir will be 3.5 or 4E?

3.5

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Good. Then again, game is the only environment where 4E would work...

(In b4 surgey)

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Then again, game is the only environment where 4E would work...

No.

 

[SimpleComplexity]

Best. Addon. Ever.

 

[nomask7]

You're right, there's an option that makes you rest repeatedly, automatically using healing spells, until fully healed. I had never noticed that option, but it's there just for convenience, and I assume doesn't work very well in dungeons due to the probable interruptions by hostile monsters who never sleep. What makes this system different from the NWN2 system is that there you just sat down for a while and got back all your HPs. This didn't require the use of spells; and interruptions were so rare I don't even remember if there were any.

 

[Starwars]

One thing that I think would do quite a bit for encounters is simply just incorporating Tony K's AI. I'm not sure how feasible that would be, but I believe they already incorporated one lesser AI fix (before Tony K's was released) so maybe the same could be done for Tony K's. Just having that thing installed actually goes quite a long way towards a more logical feel in a lot of combat encounters in terms of how enemies react, and makes it less painful to leave companions to the AI for the simpler encounters.

 

[Murk]

I don't have it installed and no longer remember what the option I checked was, but whatever it was, when you rest with it on, you can rest up to... well, a long time. Twenty-plus hours, not just eight.

that was the 'rest till fully healed option', it kept you in a continuous 'rest' until your hp was full similar to how icewind dale 2 handled it

it's suicide in timed games, as it can take a dozen or so days easily to heal up to full hp if you have a higher level fighter or barbarian

add that to 'cast healing spells on rest' which i think is an entirely ok function and you would fully heal pretty well per rest

 

[elander_]

Yes leave the AI on for simple encounters. It would be easy to add specific auto-pause rules to simulate a TB system.

About resting DnD could be a lot better if they disassociate resting with remembering learned spells. Instead make it so that a spell slot is automatically recalled after a few turns. For example a level 8 spell slot would be recalled after 8 turns.

 

[Lesifoere]

You're right, there's an option that makes you rest repeatedly, automatically using healing spells, until fully healed. I had never noticed that option, but it's there just for convenience, and I assume doesn't work very well in dungeons due to the probable interruptions by hostile monsters who never sleep.

Hostile monsters who present no threat. I recall wraiths in the dungeon before Firkraag (sp?) would interrupt rest, for example, but... so what? By that point the party are high-level enough to wipe them out quickly. Given how easy the combat in BG2 really is, most of the time you will finish combat with the party suffering little damage. The only purpose of resting is to refresh the casters' spells.

 

[Badgermaster]

Yes leave the AI on for simple encounters. It would be easy to add specific auto-pause rules to simulate a TB system.

About resting DnD could be a lot better if they disassociate resting with remembering learned spells. Instead make it so that a spell slot is automatically recalled after a few turns. For example a level 8 spell slot would be recalled after 8 turns.

You'd probably like how 4E does spells at least a little better, then. Some spells are rated Daily, which means after you use them, you must rest six hours before you can use them again. Some are rated as Encounter spells, which means you must rest 5 minutes before you can cast them again. At-Will spells can be cast every round in combat, no rest required.

Also, Wizards gain access to a Feat at 21st level that lets them spend Action Points to cast a Daily Spell again without having to rest first.

Not quite as rapid-fire as the method you suggest, but an improvement.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Considering there has been a Recharge Magic(Very much like 4E's) system and Spell Points(mana) system available for 3/3.5E edition for four years now and yet no one cared, I doubt anyone ever will at this point.

 

[Shannow]

You're right, there's an option that makes you rest repeatedly, automatically using healing spells, until fully healed. I had never noticed that option, but it's there just for convenience, and I assume doesn't work very well in dungeons due to the probable interruptions by hostile monsters who never sleep.

Hostile monsters who present no threat. I recall wraiths in the dungeon before Firkraag (sp?) would interrupt rest, for example, but... so what? By that point the party are high-level enough to wipe them out quickly. Given how easy the combat in BG2 really is, most of the time you will finish combat with the party suffering little damage. The only purpose of resting is to refresh the casters' spells.

It clearly depend on how you play the games.
Firstly: move away from the BG2 did it/didn't do it strawman. The question is whether one considers an 8 hour resting with limits to healing better than 5 second resting without limits. And whether time could actually play a role when you have travel and resting time.
When I mentioned timed quests like the merchant daughter is eaten by the trolls because you took too long it opens a different ending to the quest. Instead of saving her you take revenge and bring back her dead body. With a successful bluff check you could convince her father that there was nothing you could do and still receive an adequat reward. Quests that simply "fail" when you are too late should be seldom.

Secondly: I remember resting in Dragon's Eye in IWD after some tough fights. I got so difficult encounters that I had to flee back to Kuldahar because another rest interruption would have killed my party/ had to reload...

 

[analt]

Try writing out an example for starters and then go from there - stretch it out for different party and character combinations. Now multiply that by every interactive instance in the game.

I'm a big fan of party-member interjections -- even just one-liners. They're efficient and create the impression that the characters are quietly thinking to themselves even when they're not talking.

Now, if you come at it from a character angle, with "at X point in the game, I need to write a reaction for every possible character permutation," it gets unwieldy fast. But if you come at from the opposite direction, of story instead of character, and say "at X point in the game, the party comes across a forest that has been completely burned to the ground. Is there a ranger or druid in the party who ought to react to that?" you can do more with less. Then you can pick and choose for maximum impact.

Maybe there's a kidnapping, and one of the more mercenary characters pipes in with skepticism about the necessity of a rescue or whatever. Maybe if there's a paladin type, he rebuts that response. But you only write the ones that the situation seems to call for, rather than one for everyone.

 

[nomask7]

You're right, there's an option that makes you rest repeatedly, automatically using healing spells, until fully healed. I had never noticed that option, but it's there just for convenience, and I assume doesn't work very well in dungeons due to the probable interruptions by hostile monsters who never sleep.

Hostile monsters who present no threat. I recall wraiths in the dungeon before Firkraag (sp?) would interrupt rest, for example, but... so what? By that point the party are high-level enough to wipe them out quickly. Given how easy the combat in BG2 really is, most of the time you will finish combat with the party suffering little damage. The only purpose of resting is to refresh the casters' spells.

It clearly depends on how you play the games.

Yes. I think that if you play them more realistically, use hardcore rules, obviously, don't re-roll at the beginning until you have a mega destroyer character fresh out of the oven, don't explore every cranny as if you didn't want to save Imoen very soon (unless you really don't), etc., then it shouldn't be as easy as some claim it was.... Re timed quests. They should be easy enough to do, and would improve the gaming experience so much, would make the world more dynamic, that it's really bizarre that they're pretty much non-existent in newer games.

 

[Lesifoere]

Yes. I think that if you play them more realistically,

How does one play BG2 "realistically"?

don't re-roll at the beginning until you have a mega destroyer character fresh out of the oven

I never could be bothered.

don't explore every cranny as if you didn't want to save Imoen very soon (unless you really don't)

Did anyone really? Imoen's abduction is one of those scenarios they thrust at you while working on an unfounded assumption that the player gives a flying fuck. Maybe you did, but Imoen in BG1 was a personality-void cannon fodder NPC, which didn't leave much room for emotional connection or investment for me. I could've explored the city and surrounding areas forever.

 

[Jasede]

What would have helped BG 2 is Imoen dying and/or Game Over after, say, 21 days.

 

[nomask7]

Yes. I think that if you play them more realistically,

How does one play BG2 "realistically"?

For example, by not sleeping after every battle for 8 hours. I can imagine interruptions being absolutely trivial if you always attempt to rest right after you've used one of your favorite spells, and not wait until your party is in fact fatigued. It's also not realistic to explore places just to get benefits in terms of xp and gold, unless you're playing a particularly greedy character. All sort of meta-gaming is "unrealistic" or out of character. Not that BG2 was an especially good game anyway. Like S said, the point here is just to illustrate the flaws in the NWN2 combat system, which made the combat even worse than it was in BG2, even though the new system had more potential in some respects than the old one.

 

[Lumpy]

How is resting after every battle unrealistic? In the D&D world, mages need spells, spells are regained by resting. If there are no penalties and resting is safe, it would be unrealistic not to take advantage of this.
You can always add limitations to resting, but that will likely piss off all the casual gamers :motb:.

 

[Jasede]

In the D&D world, the DM would spawn fucking Bodaks on your ass if you rest after every battle.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

In the D&D world, you have Rope Trick.

 

[gamefan]

D&D sucks my left nut. Dungeons and dragons is only good for making video games.

And Lesifoere go fuck yourself you fucking bitch