Preview Oblivion daily update

[Chefe]

bleh

Okay, so Vault Dweller sucks. yada yada yada

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

 

[Balor]

Well, come to think of it, 'more skill in armor - less penalty' is kinda logical, if you consider that mage has to perform some gestures and ritual to body movements to cast the spell... yet...
You don't have to!

In MW, there were gestures present.
In Oblivion - you can simply 'point&launch', even while wielding a weapon.

Btw, take AD&D (3rd edition) - there you could have perks that lessen or remove the armor restriction (if you take a few of them).
Yet, again, it comes to 'somatic' (unless I'm mistaken) component.
Purely vocal spells are not affected by armor, and if you remove somatic component with metamagic, you can freely cast this why wearing the bulkiest armor possible.
On the other hand, let's think that 'somatic component animation' is missed out, just like dodging animation was missed out in MW...
Well, it's starting to make sense, isn't it?

On the other hand, not exactly.
I have impression that casting in armor (just like it's represented in AD&D... even if I don't like it) is an entirely separate skill then using it for protection.
I mean, it should go up as you cast spells in armor... not when you are being hit with heavy objects on a stick!

But since skills have to be 'balanced', such a skill (armored casting) is did not make it into the game.
Too bad.
I guess I can try and implement it too... should not be too hard, unless CS will not allow me.
Just remove (if it's possible to) multiplier that reduces casting penalty based on armor skill, and add a separate skill, that does the above, but rises only when you actually cast spells while wearing armor.

That is much more logical.
...
And btw, MTTIII had special items that gave you more mana regen... but for a sacrifice in ability to wear some armor or wield some sort of weapon.
Really neat, I’d say. Perfectly explains why mages don’t suppose to wear armor and weapons - cause they need mana regen much more then that.

 

[Twinfalls]

I guess I can try and implement it too... should not be too hard, unless CS will not allow me.
Just remove (if it's possible to) multiplier that reduces casting penalty based on armor skill, and add a separate skill, that does the above, but rises only when you actually cast spells while wearing armor.

That is much more logical.

That would be really good, but my understanding is that you cannot create new skills with the CS?

 

[Gwendo]

We are not the chosen one? We're just the one from Uriel's dreams, chos- er, caught by fate to save the world's saviour. If you can't do that, the world is doomed, so, basically, by rescuing Uriel's son, you're saving the world. The world depends on you!

Now, will you fix performance issues in 2-3 weeks time? It should be out November 22nd.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Balor, the gestures are still there. It still plays casting animations when you cast spells. The animations vary depending on whether you have an empty hand or not.

 

[Balor]

Well, you CAN emulate them.
And if you will use a system like my Leveling - you can emulate it perfectly, meaning that those skills will affect your stats and level when you'll rise them.
You will not be able to train them from generic NPCs, though... and they will not be in your skills list, but that can be fixed by having a 'extra skill sheet' in your inv, that will have it's names and values.
My Herbalism added a new skill, and One Power (latest one, found on my website) has 'Leveling addon' that allow One power and Oneness skills to affect your level and willpower.
A bit unbalanced, I admit, heh, but I'll improve it when Oblivion will come up.
I kinda fed up coding for MW - it's scripting system gives me nightmares already.
Well, overcoming obstacles (like some limitations and outright bugs) can a lot of fun in itself, but having so many of them eventually shifted balance 'fun' to 'dislike'.

And for the skill - it's just a global var that increased each time spellcasting detected and you are wearing armor.
There are other issues that can crop up, to be sure, but I'll see.

 

[Balor]

Well, I know about gestures - but it's... well... not that kind of gestures that seem to be hindered by armor.
I mean, overly simplistic...
If you have to do a belly dance to cast a fireball - well, it would be understandable.
But since you seem to have to only point your hand, I doubt that armor should be much of an issue.

 

[Chefe]

Balor: http://bethsoft.com/links/bethsoft_jobs.html

:D

 

[Balor]

Yea, sure... I'd fit right in, if not for the 'location' part .
And besides, making gameplay mods is one thing, and programming job is an other.
*shrugs*
Not that I consider that link you given me as something serious anyway :D

 

[Vault Dweller]

There. I knew I could get you to say something positive about Oblivion for the masses.

Yes, you are way to smart and crafty for me, alway being one step ahead *rolls eyes*

But come one, your posts about Oblivion have typically oozed negativity.

My comments on specific Oblivion features were negative. There is a difference between that and what you said.

Have you not been arguing vociferously that Oblivion is not a true rpg for a variety of reasons (e.g., that it depends too much on player and not character skills?)

Does that bullshit come with a quote or is that another one of yours misconceptions? I did criticize the move toward player skills, but I haven't judged an entire game yet. If, based on my criticism, you think that Oblivion is not a true RPG, that's your conclusion, not mine :wink:

For starters, how about this as an example of negativity ooze.?

Understand, all those features may suck horribly, yet they don't define an entire game.

Not that I have scoured rpgcodex, but in my short time here, I've seen numerous posts like this from you.

And? So far I liked little about the game, and I explained why in many details. If tomorrow Bethesda shares with us some actually well implemented feature, I'll be more than happy to cover that in a positive way. If you see something, let me know. :wink:

In any event, I'm teasing you. If you do buy Oblivion, you will certainly not be a laughingstock. You will just be showing good sense.

I'm so glad that you approve. That's like a load off

 

[VenomByte]

On the subject of extra skills, I was planning on trying to mod Oblivion to split long and short blade back into two separate skills. Assuming there is some way to detect which type of weapon the player currently has equipped, and what their skill level is (including partial advancements, ideally), then it should be possible to hold short and long blade in two separate globals, and hotswap the correct value in depending on the currently eqiupped weapon.

Trouble is, I have my suspicions that there wil be no way to tell if an equipped blade is short or long. Possibly I'll be able to get the weight and 'guess' the classification from there ('reach' would be even more useful in that respect), but I fear the best we'll probabaly be able to get is just the weapon ID. Which means the mod would have to hardcode in a classification for every single bladed weapon in the game in order to get it right. This would be ugly, inefficient, and near-impossible to maintain in a co-ordinated fashion with other mods.

So just like Morrowind then

 

[Chefe]

Yea, sure... I'd fit right in, if not for the 'location' part .
And besides, making gameplay mods is one thing, and programming job is an other.
*shrugs*
Not that I consider that link you given me as something serious anyway :D

Aw, come on, just look at past Bethesda projects. It looks like they pulled those programmers off the street, with all the bugs that stick around. And besides, each game is less complex than the last. You'd do fine.

But yes, you'd have to move to America, unfortunately. And Maryland, of all places.

SEIG HEIL BUSH!

 

[kingcomrade]

seig heil yor mom's bush iz what my dik qas donig last nite LOL

There are a number of states in this country where there's a minimum amount of money a job has to pay before I'd move there, and Maryland is one of them.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

seig heil yor mom's bush iz what my dik qas donig last nite LOL

There are a number of states in this country where there's a minimum amount of money a job has to pay before I'd move there, and Maryland is one of them.

Virginia > Maryland.

 

[truekaiser]

Well, you CAN emulate them.
And if you will use a system like my Leveling - you can emulate it perfectly, meaning that those skills will affect your stats and level when you'll rise them.
You will not be able to train them from generic NPCs, though... and they will not be in your skills list, but that can be fixed by having a 'extra skill sheet' in your inv, that will have it's names and values.
My Herbalism added a new skill, and One Power (latest one, found on my website) has 'Leveling addon' that allow One power and Oneness skills to affect your level and willpower.
A bit unbalanced, I admit, heh, but I'll improve it when Oblivion will come up.
I kinda fed up coding for MW - it's scripting system gives me nightmares already.
Well, overcoming obstacles (like some limitations and outright bugs) can a lot of fun in itself, but having so many of them eventually shifted balance 'fun' to 'dislike'.

And for the skill - it's just a global var that increased each time spellcasting detected and you are wearing armor.
There are other issues that can crop up, to be sure, but I'll see.

you know from looking at your stuff i think you might do better trying to make your own system rather then force the cripled tools the bethesda devs give us to do what you want.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Aw, come on, just look at past Bethesda projects. It looks like they pulled those programmers off the street, with all the bugs that stick around. And besides, each game is less complex than the last. You'd do fine.

But yes, you'd have to move to America, unfortunately. And Maryland, of all places.

SEIG HEIL BUSH!

Was that supposed to be some sort of comment on Zenimax's links to the Democratic party? If so, anyone who could pierce through the subtlety and understand the political observation is a better man than I.

 

[merry andrew]

I think the strength of our dialogue and characters in Oblivion are actually going to surprise a lot of people.

SURPRISE

 

[Proweler]

I think the strength of our dialogue and characters in Oblivion are actually going to surprise a lot of people.

SURPRISE

If you assume that a lot ofpepole assume the dialog will be crap, yes it will suprice a lot of pepole.
If you assume that a lot of pepole assume the dialog will be good, yes it will suprice a lot of pepole.

It seem that the statment goes both ways. Now either Gavin means that the dialog will be good and thus assumes that a lot of pepole will think the dialog will be crap. Seeing how Gavin is a man of reason and how the Oblivion General Forum outnumber the Codex, I don't think a lot of pepole will think of Oblivions dialoge as crap. Leaving only the other option; they will suprice us whit the worst dialoge ever.

 

[merry andrew]

Yeah I'm scared. I'll still probably pre-order the collector's edition. But yeah.

 

[Chefe]

Was that supposed to be some sort of comment on Zenimax's links to the Democratic party? If so, anyone who could pierce through the subtlety and understand the political observation is a better man than I.

It was a jab on America.

See... Balor is from Russia...

 

[Rulion]

Well, I know about gestures - but it's... well... not that kind of gestures that seem to be hindered by armor.
I mean, overly simplistic...
If you have to do a belly dance to cast a fireball - well, it would be understandable.
But since you seem to have to only point your hand, I doubt that armor should be much of an issue.

Gestures are not what power the magic. Sure, they're included and help you focus, but I doubt magic from TES world comes from gestures - otherwise each spell would have different gestures and the Mage Guild would be filled with choreographers that teach you the perfect way to wave your hands to produce a spell.

Heavy armour is fatiguing and its presence on someone not accustomed to it would detract from how much attention they can put on other activities. Imagine a magic-based character that had just put on his first suit of plate armour. The weight of it is going to make him ache, feel exhausted, sweat, etc, hence the penalties. It makes sense to me that the more you wear heavy armour, the more accustomed to it you become and thus the more comfortably you can do things like cast magic.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Also, since I'm kinda a journalist here (I use the term loosely), and since we discuss RPGs frequently, I would buy and play most RPGs to write reviews and/or post some thoughts. Nothing wrong with that either.

Yeah, given all your coverage of Oblivion, I'll fire yer ass if you don't do the Oblivion review.

DEY DUK AR JERBZ!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Sure, would love to.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

seig heil yor mom's bush iz what my dik qas donig last nite LOL

There are a number of states in this country where there's a minimum amount of money a job has to pay before I'd move there, and Maryland is one of them.

Virginia > Maryland.

Hell yes.

Say, out of curiosity, does the acronym TJHSST ring a bell?

 

[geminito]

Btw, anyway, how do you expect "specialized" 'merchant' players to get their mercantile up?
By finding commodities at low price, buying them and selling for high price?

I was thinking they'd fix it up a bit. Like, for example, you could take jobs for a merchant or store who's trying to broker a deal with another. You could deliver the item and barter for a price/item, then you could take the money or item back to the original owner and either accept your reward or try and barter for something better (i.e. "I did this for you, and it was tough, so how about another 50 gold?" or "I'm working for you now, so why don't you give me discounts intead?"). Something like that. You'd do jobs for stores and other merchants, trading between places such as stores, temples, government facilities, nobles, etc.

Then, when you get a high enough level, you'd be able to invest money in a store that would automatically generate money for you. To increase the amount of money, you'd have to broker your own deals with other merchants/temples/nobles/etc. You could even hire out other people to do these dealings for you (like you did in the beginning), which would create an actual gameplay reason for radiant AI.

Something more complex than stealing/looting shit, talking to a merchant, and messing around with the price buttons... and then "investing" in a store just to sell your stuff.

But, alas, I guess Bethesda just really doesn't give any thought to anything besides forests. I wouldn't be surprised if they just started implementing actual gameplay last year. It doesn't sound like they spent any time on these ideas AT ALL.

You just described an incredibly boring RPG. Or an average simulation game. Or a typical MMORPG.

Have you ever played Star Wars Galaxies? They have an "economy game" as an alternative to combat. Since the combat in SWG was so awful, I decided to play this economy game instead. It was boring as hell and left me with the feeling that I was missing out on the real fun and rewards that the game had to offer. I cancelled my account faster than you can say "May the force be with you."

I think Bethsoft should just do away with the Mercantile skill entirely and be done with it. Don't waste time thinking about how to implement a Mercantile skill. People are full of mercantile suggestions that no one would actually enjoy playing. A trapper skill would be much more fun as a non-melee non-magic skill.

Mercantile bleh. Let it die.