Interview Oblivion interview at GameSpot

[Leo_Sobec]

By the way, the E3 trailer is available here or a better quality one there.

 

[space captain]

its WoW - they see how it sold well, so they have to pander to that crowd, and they expect every step of every quest to be perfectly laid out in glowing exclamation points or whatever

its like Jade Empire with its "dialog" system... you would be talking to a guy, and then at a certain point it might give you 3 different things to say, each one clearly labeled as "intuition" or "intimidation" or "charm"... and you pick the response that matches your best dialog skill - VOILA!! thats all there is to it

none of that silly "thinking" or anything like in Fallout or Arcanum dialogs - where you had to pick from a long chain of responses that didnt indicate anything other than the response itself

 

[Shagnak]

So you're anti "moron indicators" then?

 

[Shagnak]

I just saw some footage of game play, and it gave me a stiffy.

 

[Shagnak]

manamanah
doo doo doo-doo-doo
manamanah
doo doo-doo doo
manamanah
doo doo doo-doo-doo
doo-doo-doo
doo-doo-doo
doo-doo-doo
doo doo doo doo-doo doo

(ask your parents kiddies)

 

[Vykromond]

But, wasnt wandering around admiring the scenery just about the only cool thing to do in Morrowind? Now they even gave the axe to a pretty big portion of the exploration component.

How are quest indicators in any way "taking an axe" to exploration? No one's stopping you from exploring, for Christ's sake.

its WoW - they see how it sold well, so they have to pander to that crowd, and they expect every step of every quest to be perfectly laid out in glowing exclamation points or whatever

Right, because quests in WoW are like that.

 

[Remax]

It's always something

I remember when automapping was added to CRPG's, and the hard core players complained that the games were being dumbed down for the masses. Or when compasses were added and some players thought it made exploration too easy. Or when dialog trees began to take over for straight text input (where you had to "what about the kidnappers?" or "tell me about the quest") and old-timers complained about the lack of variety.

All of these features are standard now.

Enough with the "dumbing down for the masses" argument. It's old and tired.

 

[Shevek]

There is a distinct difference. Each of those things you mentioned may make the game easier but they do not diminish core aspects of the classic adventure. Selecting text rather than typing in a specific response does not actually limit the play experience (since only a set of reponses are accepted regardless). However, pointing people to quest objectives is SIGNIFICANTLY diminishing exploratatory aspects of the game. A big part of exploration is figuring out just where you need to go. Asking people where exactly place X is and then guessing where you think it might be and then stumbling upon altogether new adventures and possibilities. Too many games are giving up on this. How fun would exploring the wasteland have been if the damn waterchip just magically appeared on the map at stage one of the game? You may find the arguement tired and perhaps it is but I think you are comparing apples to oranges here.

 

[Greatatlantic]

Hmmm... some interesting points Shevek. Though, I think you are assuming to much. Playing morrowind I can't tell you how many times I got lost trying to find the third path after the mountain just before some sign post... Anyways, knowing what direction something is doesn't mean you know how to get there, as Guild Wars has show admirably shown. There could be several cliffs and mountains in your way. Of course, with levitate... Hmmm...

Anyways, I think there is still a lot of room for exploration with a quest compass. And, I've read they don't give you a compass if the location isn't known. So, had bethsoft implemented a compass into Fallout, they wouldn't have told you where a waterchip was, nor the exact location of the Mutant Base. On the otherhand, Fallout was a lot smaller, though much better, than Morrowind and presumably Oblivion. When you only have 10 knook and crannies to explore as oppose to 30, its exponentially easier to do.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Bloodlines had moron indicators. How come nobody whined about them there? Funny how everyone's suddenly bitching about Jade Empire, KOTOR and now Oblivion's dialogue system when Bloodlines did exactly the same thing with the dialogue skills.

 

[crpgnut]

This was Todd's direct quote on the automap:

Some quests have hidden goals, such as "find the secret cave," and that would not be marked.

I'm guessing if a location is known by an NPC that you've talked to then they are assumed to have told you where to go.

IRL if I ask someone to get something for me, I generally tell them exactly where it is. Don't you?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Bloodlines had moron indicators. How come nobody whined about them there? Funny how everyone's suddenly bitching about Jade Empire, KOTOR and now Oblivion's dialogue system when Bloodlines did exactly the same thing with the dialogue skills.

With a difference - they were only used when the character had enough skill points invested into it. Much like Fallout 2's Empathy Perk, text would only get special treatment when the character had the skill itself, not before. In Bloodlines, those indicators will only appear when the character had a skill at a certain level. As far as I'm concerned, moron indicators are indicators which are always there to indicate things for the players... A bit like Lionheart's concept of icons used before dialogue options indicating their meaning/outcome.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Lionheart had indicators for what dialogue line would give a quest, what response would make someone happy, and what line would piss someone off. It had enough indicators to tell you enough to where you could just ignore the dialogue itself and just click based on the icon.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well, hopefully Oblivion's dialogue system will be like Bloodlines' and not like Lionheart's.

As to the quest indicators, I have no problem with a flashing icon on my automap indicating the position of the NPC I need to talk to. It'd certainly be a lot more helpful than wandering around for 30 minutes talking to every NPC in vain hopes that one of them might be the NPC I'm looking for. It's hardly 'unimmersive' or anything like that.

 

[Elwro]

You can select any quest, and for the most part, it will highlight on the map exactly where you need to go to accomplish the next step. This mark is also noted on your compass. For instance, someone gives you a quest to go to the fighter's guild. The guild is instantly marked on your compass and the map as your quest target, so you can just walk to it without checking over any directions or maps.

Bethesda: bringing the Moron Indicators to a new level.

 

[corvax]

You can select any quest, and for the most part, it will highlight on the map exactly where you need to go to accomplish the next step. This mark is also noted on your compass. For instance, someone gives you a quest to go to the fighter's guild. The guild is instantly marked on your compass and the map as your quest target, so you can just walk to it without checking over any directions or maps.

Bethesda: bringing the Moron Indicators to a new level.

you make no sense. there's absolutely nothing wrong with this example, having such obvious thing like the fighter's guild marked on your map is a good thing. it's better that way. reminds me of bg2 and how it revealed the city's map and major buildings from the get go. that was so much better than in bg1.

 

[Visbhume]

I think it's actually a great idea. I don't want to be forced to wander for hours across the landscape, especially if I have made the trip before. I fucking hate that. I have been looking for this kind of feature in RPGs for quite some time.

Soon, games without this feaure will be considered as outdated as the games without automap are now.

When you play a pen-and-paper RPG and the gamemaster says something like "after a long journey, you arrive at Whateverland", do you accuse him of straitjacketing the game and demand to be told in detail about each concrete step, one after another ?

 

[Spazmo]

I agree, having directions to places that aren't supposed to be a challenge to find just makes sense. There's lots of actual valid stuff to complain about with BethSoft games, so try not to slam them for the good stuff.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, the part I find dumb about it is that I actually kind of agree with Vault Dweller's comment about it. Even though VD was being sarcastic, I'd much rather have faster travel than walking - like a damned WORLD MAP. Giving me directions versus making me wander around until I find something is okay, but a compressed time travel mode would be nice. It's not like this game is an MMORPG where every second has to be real time.

 

[NeutralMilkHotel]

Well, the part I find dumb about it is that I actually kind of agree with Vault Dweller's comment about it. Even though VD was being sarcastic, I'd much rather have faster travel than walking - like a damned WORLD MAP. Giving me directions versus making me wander around until I find something is okay, but a compressed time travel mode would be nice. It's not like this game is an MMORPG where every second has to be real time.

Um, if I'm not mistaken, it does have a fast travel option like Daggerfall had (where game time would pass when you fast travel, but you don't have to walk miles in the game to get to your destination if you didn't want to. I think you can only fast travel to places you've already been. And I think MSFD gave an example that if you were poisoned, you'd probably die on the way to your destination if you fast travelled). Anyways, the point is time goes on as it would have if you walked there.

 

[spacemoose]

you make no sense. there's absolutely nothing wrong with this example, having such obvious thing like the fighter's guild marked on your map is a good thing. it's better that way. reminds me of bg2 and how it revealed the city's map and major buildings from the get go. that was so much better than in bg1.

If it only marks the location of a certain point of interest (like the fighers guild) on the map when you first hear about it, well that's great, but the way I understand it, there will be a current 'active' quest and the location of the next step of the active quest will be highlighted with a big X, with the compass pointing to it.

For me, this takes away a part of the fun. I like micromanaging my character. It would be terrible if I had to pick from 3 classes - like fighter, mage, thief (plenty of crap games do this).

I like arranging things in my inventory and deciding what I should carry around and what I should store away or sell. If a game does inventory management for me, its that much less stuff for me to DO in the game (hello Bard's Tale).

I also like having different ammo types for bows and crossbows, or rocket launchers and pistols. I hated having the same ammo type for everything in Deus Ex II.

If the location I need to go to next is constantly pointed out to me, the "find other interesting stuff while searching for next quest step" part of the game is gone. The computer is playing the game for me.

As more and more parts of a game are automated - character creation, inventory management, moron indicators in speech and now on the map, there is less GAME to play. There is that much less of a sense of accomplishment for figuring something out for yourself. And if I don't feel that I have accomplished something, the game has not been enjoable. (Note: I know I have not accomplished anything by playing a game, leave me to my escapism please.)

Some people might like the computer playing their game for them, I suspect they also like spreadsheets. I would suggest they pick up Master of Orion III.

In conclusion, I would like to see more riddles integrated into RPGs, solving the door riddles in the Exile series was quite rewarding for a 14yr old me.

 

[corvax]

huh? you lost me after the 1st paragraph. you continued to ramble like you've never played any of the tes games.

 

[spacemoose]

My point is that if the next step in the active quest is pointed out on the map, there is less for the player to do. The computer is automating this task of finding the bandits' lair so to say. So there is less GAME to play and no sense of accomplishment for for finding the bandits' lair.

The other things I listed in my previous post are analogies for this - Bard's Tale automatically upgrading your equipment, moron indicators in the dialogue of some games.

 

[space captain]

you are an idiot - its not labeling buildings on the map, its pointing out where to go each step in a quest

a guy tells you to find the mysterious hermit hiding in the desert - so you pull open your map and find the spot marked "GO HERE NEXT DOPE DEE DOH"

hes not hiding anymore is he

 

[spacemoose]

you are an idiot - its not labeling buildings on the map, its pointing out where to go each step in a quest

a guy tells you to find the mysterious hermit hiding in the desert - so you pull open your map and find the spot marked "GO HERE NEXT DOPE DEE DOH"

hes not hiding anymore is he

That's exactly what I said in both my posts. Enroll in English comprehension classes immediately.