Game News Oblivion mage quests (highly intricate stuff)

[bryce777]

He isn't just talking about the one poster's circumstances. He's talking about Bethesda employees specifically, and seemingly drawing parallels to other game development companies.

Okay this isn't about a single questionable design decision. This is about earning a living doing something disagreeable...

My point is that they don't have to. And at the very least, they can show some dissent, instead of just rolling over and fucking taking it. I heartily encourage real people to act like real people and not like hive drones whose only concern is a regular paycheque.

He's telling Bethesda employees to quit their jobs and/or raise hell because he disagrees with their game designs.

Oh. Well, as to that it simply depends. Are they in it for just a paycheck? Do they agree with the philosophy of their masters?

I have worked for some pretty stupid companies making some really pointless projects, but people don't usually become game programmers for the money. If they are making games they think are stupid, what's the point?

 

[Solik]

I don't think any developer who has any kind of opinion about design is going to agree with all the design decisions of whoever passes it down, any more than software developers in other companies do. The question's whether or not your disagreements are severe enough that it makes you unhappy working there. You'd have to either be extremely opinionated or working at an incredibly stupid facility for that to be, I'd think. I'd generally agree with the notion that if you're unhappy, you should search for a new job somewhere if you don't think you can work it out at your current place of employment. That's a bit of a far cry from what Section8 seemed to be implying. To his credit, though, he has stated that he came off a little overly strong. Just got emotional with it, I guess. He's probably of the extremely opinionated type :p

 

[Section8]

He's probably of the extremely opinionated type

Well, that's as may be. But...

He's telling Bethesda employees to quit their jobs and/or raise hell because he disagrees with their game designs.

Nowhere did I specifically reference Bethesda. I was talking about developers in general who work for disagreeable corporate management. Obviously Bethesda fits within that definition to a certain degree, but there are plenty more devs who are just as guilty, if not moreso.

 

[Killzig]

didn't you work on Fallout Tactics?

 

[Section8]

Yes. You'll note I no longer work on Fallout Tactics.

 

[Drakron]

Too bad ... you could have added p0rn to the game.

 

[Killzig]

Beastlords were fuckin brilliant

 

[Lumpy]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=258274
This quest, though, sounds really original. And it makes sense too. In the previous games, interesting, original situations like this were only present in books (Palla, the Poison Song, Feyfolken). Now, they are actually a part of the gameplay.
I don't know how well it fits into the TES world. The games used to be realistic, with magic having limited uses. It seems that they decided to have more fantasy, planescape style.

 

[Excrément]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=258274
This quest, though, sounds really original. And it makes sense too. In the previous games, interesting, original situations like this were only present in books (Palla, the Poison Song, Feyfolken). Now, they are actually a part of the gameplay.
I don't know how well it fits into the TES world. The games used to be realistic, with magic having limited uses. It seems that they decided to have more fantasy, planescape style.

yes this one is very good, this game is more about quality over quantity when you compare to morrowind.

 

[LlamaGod]

Oblivion is great if all you want to do is combat, I guess.

 

[Lumpy]

One could say that the painter could have stolen the brush while the painter was outside, but there could be a good reason why he went inside. Maybe he had to get the brush quickly, and the painter had been staying for a long time in the painting. And it's awesome otherwise. Making such an effect for a single quest proves a great attention to detail. Is there anything to criticize about this quest?

 

[Solik]

It has combat! Combat = for idiots!

 

[Excrément]

It has combat! Combat = for idiots!

yeah and it has beautiful graphics, it has havok, it has voice acting, it has a fantasy lore and all of this is only for idiots!!!!

Minesweeper doesn't have these graphics, doesn't have havok, voice acting or fantasy lore neither. And it is not for idiots!

This demonstration works also with the game "Big Blue Chess" or "Sudoku Online".

 

[Antiphon]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=258274
This quest, though, sounds really original. And it makes sense too. In the previous games, interesting, original situations like this were only present in books (Palla, the Poison Song, Feyfolken). Now, they are actually a part of the gameplay.
I don't know how well it fits into the TES world. The games used to be realistic, with magic having limited uses. It seems that they decided to have more fantasy, planescape style.

Thanks for finding that Lumpy!

That actually sounds like a very cool quest. The Codexers keep asking for creative and complex quests, but I wonder if they can ever admit when one is.

 

[Vault Dweller]

That actually sounds like a very cool quest.

And you sound like an old prostitute waiting for a signal to start blowing.

The Codexers keep asking for creative and complex quests, but I wonder if they can ever admit when one is.

When I see one, I'll send you a fucking telegram admitting that. However, this quest is yet another variation of "here is a dungeon, please go in and get item X". The only difference is that the dungeon is MAGIKAL and painted, giving Bethesda a chance to show different textures and more bloom. Yay!

You call that creative and complex? I'd hate to see stuff you call simple.

 

[Antiphon]

Sure beats a typical FedEx quest. It required more work than usual with the change in graphics. I don't have any more info on that quest.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Sure beats a typical FedEx quest.

Well, if that's your standard of excellence...

It required more work than usual with the change in graphics.

So? Since when do we settle for less work?

I don't have any more info on that quest.

There is none. It's a typical quest, the only difference is the painting thing. It's a nice touch, and hopefully it looks good enough in a surrealistic way, but it's not a complex or even interesting quest. Hopefully, you realize that.

 

[Antiphon]

Well VD, I took it as a sign things were looking better in general for quests compared to Morrowind.

That you don't see any reason to be optimistic is your opinion and your choice.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I still don't get why FedEx quests have such a bad name. Sure, there's right and wrong ways of doing them, and many examples of bad FedEx quests. However, ferrying people or items can be done well and not stand out like a sore thumb in the middle of a game provided there's a decent amount of purpose behind it and it fits in with what is going on in the game. Hell, Lord of the Rings is a three book FedEx quest, yet a lot of people seem to like it.

The big problem is that a lot of FedEx quests feel like time sinks and filler material. It's almost, in a lot of cases, like the designer is just lazy and looking for some way to push the player around the map as just something generic to do. If it has meaning and purpose behind it, and the player knows what he's doing is important and there's enough positive justification to do it, there's nothing wrong with FedEx quests.

 

[bryce777]

The actual things you do can only be so many, really...it is the way they fit together and the motivation that make them meaningful.

For example, every 'fedex' quest in torment exposes more of the way the planes work and/or the nameless one's condition or past.

A fedex quest in mount and blade simply has you collect some garbage and get some coins, or the motivation in oblivion is just to do quest x only to get ino the mage's guild and it has nothing at all to do with the rest of the game....

 

[merry andrew]

Man, I wish all quests had sweet graphix.

 

[Jora]

An artist stuck inside his own work is hardly anything new. I hope it isn't an example of the most original quests in Oblivion.

For their next project Bethesda should hire someone who worked on Arcanum. Maybe the designers would then slowly begin to understand how to make quests that are in some way decent.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

A fedex quest in mount and blade simply has you collect some garbage and get some coins, or the motivation in oblivion is just to do quest x only to get ino the mage's guild and it has nothing at all to do with the rest of the game....

Well, even the "Deliver this package to the next town and I'll pay you a stack of gold!" is a lot better than the mage guild quests in Morrowind. At least with a statement like that let's the player make the choice to do it. Do I need gold? Is the gold worth the trip out to the other location? However, making pointless fedex quests as part of a linear string with no actual or decent reward is just flippin' lame.

 

[Volourn]

Whya re people shocked about the crappiness of these quests? It's Bethesda. The only thing they know how to do is make a huge, and empty world. They don't know a good quest if it hit them in the face.

BIO, Troika, Obsidian, and Troika are the Masters of Quests tm, imo. No other devloper comes close to these guys 9though BIS is dead, and Troika too heheh)...

 

[Jora]

It certainly doesn't shock me. All I'm expecting from the makers of Morrowind is the brief joy of exploring the world for the first time and then getting bored.

edit: at the moment, Bioware is pretty much braindead