Preview Oblivion preview & shitstorm at Wired Blog

[Stella Brando]

Morrowind improved your life? :D

The Hive Minds argument, as I understand it, is not that you will not enjoy Oblivion. The Hive Mind's argument is that due to market trends encouraged and represented by Oblivion, people more intelligent than yourself will struggle to find adequate games. I don't know how true that is, as I prefer to entertain myself with alcohol and shemales.

Mind-reading meetings are on Tuesdays.

 

[One Wolf]

some stuff from the TES boards doesn't suck.

did you die when you fell down the well?

did you get the hose again?

 

[Sabregirl]

I look forward to the inexplicable wierdo that will come to the Codex, who is obsessively in love with Morrowind yet hates Oblivion with a smouldering insanity.

You lookin' at me?

I recognize your name as a modder. Don't let the negative and unproductive people get you down. Oblivion is going to be very much worth playing and modding. I hope you come along for the ride.

That's yet to be seen. I'm not interested in only modding to fix Bethesda's mistakes. Which, if you read the polls are the mods people most want to see. Nor am I particularly interested in playing a game that has the flaws we already know about. Where's the new splendiforously amazing feature that will really sell Oblivion? To me it just looks/sounds very generically RPG-ish and more so with almost every update/revelation. Which for all of Morrowind flaws, at least the setting was a little creative/interesting which did manage to spur my imagination.

-S

 

[Antiphon]

Morrowind improved your life? :D

The Hive Minds argument, as I understand it, is not that you will not enjoy Oblivion. The Hive Mind's argument is that due to market trends encouraged and represented by Oblivion, people more intelligent than yourself will struggle to find adequate games. I don't know how true that is, as I prefer to entertain myself with alcohol and shemales.

Mind-reading meetings are on Tuesdays.

Entertainment improves my life, especially when it's a good value.

You believe it's intelligent to profess knowledge you can't possibly have?

I would suggest Bethesda is only trying to satisfy market demand as all business must do to survive.

It appears there are no other new RPGs for the "intelligentsia" to pursue. No one is stopping anyone from playing older or any other games.

Is it too much effort for you to realize you have a way to change market demand? Of course it's much easier to just bitch and moan without actually doing anything constructive and this does not change market demand in any way noticeable.

It would be wise, I believe, to recognize that confrontational negative and pessimistic posts are counterproductive and are obviously and shallowly self-serving. The disappearance of the Bethesda devs from this forum can serve as evidence of this.

What I try to do here is to promote the idea the "RGP Goodness" can be preserved and expanded on by working within the system and limits with the tools available and by adopting a positive proactive attitude. I also try to point out when someone is being absurd and thus counterproductive.

So, it really all comes down to this: shit or get off the pot.

 

[Antiphon]

I look forward to the inexplicable wierdo that will come to the Codex, who is obsessively in love with Morrowind yet hates Oblivion with a smouldering insanity.

You lookin' at me?

I recognize your name as a modder. Don't let the negative and unproductive people get you down. Oblivion is going to be very much worth playing and modding. I hope you come along for the ride.

That's yet to be seen. I'm not interested in only modding to fix Bethesda's mistakes. Which, if you read the polls are the mods people most want to see. Nor am I particularly interested in playing a game that has the flaws we already know about. Where's the new splendiforously amazing feature that will really sell Oblivion? To me it just looks/sounds very generically RPG-ish and more so with almost every update/revelation. Which for all of Morrowind flaws, at least the setting was a little creative/interesting which did manage to spur my imagination.

-S

Oh yes, I recognize your name as a Morrowind modder as well. Thank you for all your hard work.

I understand that "RPG Goodness" is taking a backseat at Bethesda right now. I think the devs are just fascinated by what they can do with the new techno/graphic toys. It looks to me that in a few years we will hit the practical limit of what can be done with 3D virtual worlds and their techno/graphics. Then the devs will have to compete with the breath and depth of the gaming experience and will surely be seeking all that is "RPG Goodness."

Hang on, it will get better.

Personally, I'm a computer hobbyist and understand the devs fascination with techno/graphics. I'll pretty much be happy with a pretty 3D world I can run around in and play with RAI and Havok. If there happens to be a game included, so much the better. That may seem odd to you, but I started building computers back with 286 CPUs and DOS 3.2 so I'm always looking for some way to see what they can do.

I am here learning, however, there is more to wine than getting drunk. There's body, color, bouquet, taste, astringency and other qualities. I think that's a fitting analogy for "RGP Goodness."

I would also like to suggest I'm only here because of Morrowind. Bethesda just may be doing something right by getting the attention of people like me and introducing them to "RGP Goodness."

Let each come to wisdom in their own way and time.

 

[Temoid]

I'm quite happy that "RGP Goodness" for you is something different than, y'know, rolepaying. But people might expect an "RGP" game to have meaningful choices and consequences and not crappy overhyped graphics.

 

[El Dee]

Entertainment improves my life, especially when it's a good value.

What constitutes entertainment differs from person to person and is therefore based on opinion; the same could be said of what one thinks is a "good value". For example, I could find watching my dog take a shit in the yard entertaining as hell, but that doesn't mean you would. I could also argue that this is a good value, because it's free to watch my dog shit.

You believe it's intelligent to profess knowledge you can't possibly have?

Maybe not, but these aren't world altering events being speculated

I would suggest Bethesda is only trying to satisfy market demand as all business must do to survive.

Yes, a lot of businesses do this and it usually ends up alienating someone, but that doesn't mean that consumers need to roll over and take it.

It appears there are no other new RPGs for the "intelligentsia" to pursue. No one is stopping anyone from playing older or any other games.

Though I still love my old games should I have to resort to playing them over and over again because all the new games are shit?

Is it too much effort for you to realize you have a way to change market demand? Of course it's much easier to just bitch and moan without actually doing anything constructive and this does not change market demand in any way noticeable.

Please enlighten us on your plan to change market demand. Here's the problem: I don't prefer the FPS and MMORPGs that the kiddies nowadays do, and those kiddies out there outnumber me and others of a like mind. So,game companies are going to develop and market their product to the pre-teen/teen demographic, because that's where the money is to be had.

It would be wise, I believe, to recognize that confrontational negative and pessimistic posts are counterproductive and are obviously and shallowly self-serving. The disappearance of the Bethesda devs from this forum can serve as evidence of this.

And you aren't being self-serving by coming here and satisfying your urge to expound on "RPG Goodness"?

What I try to do here is to promote the idea the "RGP Goodness" can be preserved and expanded on by working within the system and limits with the tools available and by adopting a positive proactive attitude. I also try to point out when someone is being absurd and thus counterproductive.

I have found that the absurd and counterproductive posts add personality to the these forums, but by all means continue to point out our absurdity.

So, it really all comes down to this: shit or get off the pot.

:Insert cliched quote here:

 

[kris]

Try this argument:

What have you produced that has improved the quality of my life in any way at all?

MSFD help produce Morrowind which provided me an outstanding value in entertainment thus improving the quality of my life.

Why on earth should I consider anything you say as any where near as important as something MSFD says?

Then I should sue him since I was not entertained at all and he stole a few hours of my life with Morrowind!

Anyway, I think you should consider what others than MSFD says as just as important since they doesn't have a financial and emotional connection to the game that makes many things he say a bit sugarcouted. Personally I only listen to his "this is in" or "this is out" comments as those are in general factual. When he says "This aspect is great" or "This aspect is much better" then I take it as this hyperbole you talk about in your sig. For he have claimed that about pretty much every thing we have not heard of.

 

[Antiphon]

I'm quite happy that "RGP Goodness" for you is something different than, y'know, rolepaying. But people might expect an "RGP" game to have meaningful choices and consequences and not crappy overhyped graphics.

I might not have made myself clear in that post, but I believe I have in others. I refer to all the things that the Codex is teaching me about RPGs as "RPG Goodness."

 

[Antiphon]

Entertainment improves my life, especially when it's a good value.

What constitutes entertainment differs from person to person and is therefore based on opinion; the same could be said of what one thinks is a "good value". For example, I could find watching my dog take a shit in the yard entertaining as hell, but that doesn't mean you would. I could also argue that this is a good value, because it's free to watch my dog shit.

I was replying to stalin_brando, but if you insist on butting in, I'll oblige.
I stated my opinion. I thought that was clear. The rest of your ludacris argument is ignored.

You believe it's intelligent to profess knowledge you can't possibly have?

Maybe not, but these aren't world altering events being speculated

I doubt you read the post I was responding to. But anyway, professing to be able to read people's minds destroys credibility. The Codex needs credible people that will be believed to affect positive change.

I would suggest Bethesda is only trying to satisfy market demand as all business must do to survive.

Yes, a lot of businesses do this and it usually ends up alienating someone, but that doesn't mean that consumers need to roll over and take it.

Your solution is?

It appears there are no other new RPGs for the "intelligentsia" to pursue. No one is stopping anyone from playing older or any other games.

Though I still love my old games should I have to resort to playing them over and over again because all the new games are shit?

Again, your solution is?

Is it too much effort for you to realize you have a way to change market demand? Of course it's much easier to just bitch and moan without actually doing anything constructive and this does not change market demand in any way noticeable.

Please enlighten us on your plan to change market demand. Here's the problem: I don't prefer the FPS and MMORPGs that the kiddies nowadays do, and those kiddies out there outnumber me and others of a like mind. So,game companies are going to develop and market their product to the pre-teen/teen demographic, because that's where the money is to be had.

I've started to outline my thoughts on this in previous threads. You can find links to those by clicking on my profile.

It does no good criticizing children for being what they are. Children go through the fast twitch stage first then start developing deeper cognitive functions. Wouldn't it be nice if they started developing a desire for the deeper and richer elements of RPGs as soon as possible so they can help increase demand for those elements?

It would be wise, I believe, to recognize that confrontational negative and pessimistic posts are counterproductive and are obviously and shallowly self-serving. The disappearance of the Bethesda devs from this forum can serve as evidence of this.

And you aren't being self-serving by coming here and satisfying your urge to expound on "RPG Goodness"?

Apparently I was not very clear in recent posts, but what I mean by "RGP Goodness" is all that I'm learning here about RGPs that's important to the Codex. One does not need to know all the details of what needs to be changed to know what's needed to start the process of affecting positive change. I believe I'm serving the greater good of the Codex.

What I try to do here is to promote the idea the "RGP Goodness" can be preserved and expanded on by working within the system and limits with the tools available and by adopting a positive proactive attitude. I also try to point out when someone is being absurd and thus counterproductive.

I have found that the absurd and counterproductive posts add personality to the these forums, but by all means continue to point out our absurdity.

Is personality more important than saving and expanding on all you love about RPGs?

So, it really all comes down to this: shit or get off the pot.

:Insert cliched quote here:

Alright, I'll rephrase that. Produce positive change or get out of the way, least you lose what you hold most dear in gaming.

 

[Stella Brando]

 

[Antiphon]

<snip picture

El Dee will probably find that "entertaining as hell."

 

[Antiphon]

Try this argument:

What have you produced that has improved the quality of my life in any way at all?

MSFD help produce Morrowind which provided me an outstanding value in entertainment thus improving the quality of my life.

Why on earth should I consider anything you say as any where near as important as something MSFD says?

Then I should sue him since I was not entertained at all and he stole a few hours of my life with Morrowind!

Anyway, I think you should consider what others than MSFD says as just as important since they doesn't have a financial and emotional connection to the game that makes many things he say a bit sugarcouted. Personally I only listen to his "this is in" or "this is out" comments as those are in general factual. When he says "This aspect is great" or "This aspect is much better" then I take it as this hyperbole you talk about in your sig. For he have claimed that about pretty much every thing we have not heard of.

If you don't think Morrowind was a good entertainment value then you definitly should not rush out and buy Oblivion, at least without waiting for convincing reviews.

I applaude your ability to separate hyperbole from fact. That skill will serve you well.

I do listen to people here and have learned a lot. I tend to learn less, if anything, when a post is filled with angst, pessimism and anger.

Oblivion is the first game I've ever considered ordering before it's even released. I'd really like to be part of the first wave of people exploring the world and discovering all the interesting things in the game. Then I want to start learning to mod it as soon as possible.

I realize and accept that you don't feel the same as I do about it. It's perfectly normal for people to like different things and have different goals. As I've said in other posts, I'm most interested in the techno/graphics because I'm a computer hobbyist.

But I also see that it will probably need some serious modding for people here at the Codex to really enjoy it. Modding also offers the opportunity to make changes in the next TES game which I think was proved by how many Morrowind mods conceptually made it into Oblivion.

 

[dongle]

Hang on, I'm not getting you at all here Antiphon.

<snip>

I recognize your name as a modder. Don't let the negative and unproductive people get you down. Oblivion is going to be very much worth playing and modding. I hope you come along for the ride.

Let's back up a minute. Go back to VD's post that started this thread. A writer for a -very- respectable tech publication posts a blog entry about his experience playing Oblivion at the press preview tour. Verdict; Kinda cool, a bit choppy, not really next-gen. Hardly news.

Internet retard mayhem breaks out. Just read those comments. Oblivion fans accuse him of; Being unfit for his profession (The author writes books on video games) Not playing for 200 hours (Bethesda only -let- him play a few hours, there are no beta copies being circulated to reviewers) Down to even accusing him of outright lying about the fact that he played the game at all, and fabricating the whole post just to "get back" at Bethesda (The author never played a TES game in his life)

These are the people getting me down.

I'm supposed to spend hours and hours of my free time creating content and supporting it for this current crop of "fans"? The official forums used to have a decent enough signal to noise ratio that I could hang out there. Now I can't even read the list of threads without wincing. And I'm supposed to wade in there hip-deep and sing the holy praises, why exactly again?

<snip>

What have you produced that has improved the quality of my life in any way at all?

Fucking high and mighty attitude of you to require that of a forum poster.

Maybe not you specifically, but I spent plenty of time and effort adding to and promoting Morrowind. Google "morrowind" and my site comes up as the third individual's website result. This is after being defunct for over a year. Will you deign to read my comments?

Is it too much effort for you to realize you have a way to change market demand? Of course it's much easier to just bitch and moan without actually doing anything constructive and this does not change market demand in any way noticeable.

Bethesda isn't marketing to me, anyway. The amount of support announced for modders has been virtually nil. We've even seen increasing hostility and arrogance towards modders. They're quick to brag about us, and assume we'll be there as enthusiastic as ever, but do nothing to help. This is most likely down to them opening a branch to sell mods themselves. Their VP of marketing personally blew me off when I voiced some modder related concerns.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about being left out of their marketing focus. I understand I don't represent a profitable demographic for them, and it's fine that they want to focus elsewhere.

Fact is tho, they are not designing a game that'll appeal to me all that much. Yet you say it's only right and proper that I should come over to the warm and creamy side of the force and spend my time improving all it's faults. If I don't I'm worthless. Why is that exactly?

And furthermore, why should I pony up $60 for this privilege?

It would be wise, I believe, to recognize that confrontational negative and pessimistic posts are counterproductive and are obviously and shallowly self-serving.

See, now you're totally losing me.

You come in here, call everyone's opinions worthless unless they exhibit a "positive proactive attitude" to you, and generally come over all haughty to anyone who dares post a critical opinion of your baby? If that's not "confrontational, negative, and self serving" what is?

I've got news for you. I've learned more about game design in a couple months here than I have in years on the TES forums. Folks speak their mind here, and some of the most well considered arguments I've ever read on the 'net are the result. I'm intimidated to jump in half the time, the discussion is so complex. This is far, far, more productive than demanding universal praise for a game "just 'cuz, and if you don't you're a big meanie". That will never get you anywhere here.

Hang on, it will get better.

So, we should all give Bethesda undying support, regardless of any misgivings, because TES:V, or TES:VI, just might be everything we could want?

Right. Have fun with that. . . .

 

[Stella Brando]

What have you produced that has improved the quality of my life in any way at all?

I didn't notice until now what a hilarious question this is - well done!

I wish I could be carried around on a golden throne and ask people on the street that.

 

[kris]

1. If you don't think Morrowind was a good entertainment value then you definitly should not rush out and buy Oblivion, at least without waiting for convincing reviews.

2. I applaude your ability to separate hyperbole from fact. That skill will serve you well.

3. I do listen to people here and have learned a lot. I tend to learn less, if anything, when a post is filled with angst, pessimism and anger.

4. Oblivion is the first game I've ever considered ordering before it's even released. I'd really like to be part of the first wave of people exploring the world and discovering all the interesting things in the game. Then I want to start learning to mod it as soon as possible.

5. I realize and accept that you don't feel the same as I do about it. It's perfectly normal for people to like different things and have different goals. As I've said in other posts, I'm most interested in the techno/graphics because I'm a computer hobbyist.

6. But I also see that it will probably need some serious modding for people here at the Codex to really enjoy it. Modding also offers the opportunity to make changes in the next TES game which I think was proved by how many Morrowind mods conceptually made it into Oblivion.

1. No doubt. But I am not likely to do it, the persuasion mini-game in some way could describe what I don't like.

2. ha! Seems I should just have made fun of you instead

3. No doubt again. Soem posters are always like this, but some may just be tired of hearing the same stuff for the 10342th time. Learning is good though

4. I can't blame someone else from having a different taste than me. when it comes to ES games, I like the groundconcept of free-roaming world, its just that they don't seem to get the essentials (for me) right. That is putting personality in the NPCS/world and having engaging quests that makes me think and perferably have some choice.

5. In no game have I really cared about the graphics, if anything I find art direction superior to technical awesomeness. We disagree of course, I would hope though that someone would cater more to my interest...

6. Something that have to be modded in is often a failure on the part of the developer. That doesn't mean that it isn't good that they open up for modding. I would say though that your point here do go a bit in contrary with you ordering the game in advance...

 

[Draikin]

I hate Bethesda as much as the next guy but ...

... to be fair Chris Kohler is a wanabe-japanese Nintendo fanboy, he even wrote a book about the history of videogames exept he forgot everything before the NES. Even if Oblivion was the second coming of Budha, he would have trashed it just because it's not japanese and released on Xbox 360.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Don't let the negative and unproductive people get you down.

It's Bethesda's design that got them down, not some negative people here.

Oblivion is going to be very much worth playing and modding.

Is that a fact, Nostradamus?

Yeah, I really like such arguments. First, if you criticize the game, they say:

"the game is not released yet! let's judge it when its released!"

then, when its fucking relased and you say it sucks, they say:

Yeah, he gave a 200+ hour game about 2.5 hours and wrote it off. You be the judge.

Come on!

Try this argument:

What have you produced that has improved the quality of my life in any way at all?

I gotta be honest with you, it's the most retarded argument I've ever heard of, because it's subjective as fuck. Who cares what you like? This is not a "wat is ur favarit gaem?" thread.

MSFD help produce Morrowind which provided me an outstanding value in entertainment thus improving the quality of my life.

Why on earth should I consider anything you say as any where near as important as something MSFD says?

Well, my eager-to-blow-a-developer friend, if you were familiar with the ancient art of reading (I know, it's hard without voiceovers), you'd notice that MSFD's argument is very fucking stupid. Why?

1) The reviewer did NOT write the game off
2) The reviewer complained mostly about loading time and slow downs - the area where a few hours can paint an accurate picture of a game's state.

I thought that you would understand at least that much, considering your techno fetish, but I guess I overestimated your logical abilities.

Is it too much effort for you to realize you have a way to change market demand? Of course it's much easier to just bitch and moan without actually doing anything constructive and this does not change market demand in any way noticeable.

Instead of doing what?

The disappearance of the Bethesda devs from this forum can serve as evidence of this.

Considering that Beth developers have been here for a year, and our winning attitude didn't change, and also considering the ban on all Codex links, the disappearance can serve as evidence of a new and exciting Bethesda policy, aimed to protect the blissfully happy fans from... no, not from bad people, but from facts.

What I try to do here is to promote the idea the "RGP Goodness" can be preserved and expanded on by working within the system and limits with the tools available and by adopting a positive proactive attitude.

What a lovely load of crap.

I think the devs are just fascinated by what they can do with the new techno/graphic toys.

Like dynamic shadows? Those were awesome until Beth removed them.

I'll pretty much be happy with a pretty 3D world I can run around in and play with RAI and Havok. If there happens to be a game included, so much the better.

I'm going to give a benefit of the doubt and instead of calling you a fucking moron, which was my first guess, assume that you are a person who doesn't give a flying fuck about that "RPG Goodness" you were talking about.

I would also like to suggest I'm only here because of Morrowind. Bethesda just may be doing something right by getting the attention of people like me and introducing them to "RGP Goodness."

Even if Bethesda is doing something right, you are a very poor example of that.

 

[El Dee]

<snip picture

El Dee will probably find that "entertaining as hell."

I no longer find such tripe entertaining, because I am now intoxicated with RPG GOODNESS!

 

[DorrieB]

It does no good criticizing children for being what they are. Children go through the fast twitch stage first then start developing deeper cognitive functions.

Are you mad? You'll find that children develop their cognitive functions at a furious rate. They pay attention to bloody everything. They may lack knowledge and discernment, but their cognitive functions are much more alive than ours.

Not that I understand what any of it is to do with Oblivion, but whatever point you were making, this is absoloute bollocks.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It does no good criticizing children for being what they are. Children go through the fast twitch stage first then start developing deeper cognitive functions.

Are you mad? You'll find that children develop their cognitive functions at a furious rate. They pay attention to bloody everything. They may lack knowledge and discernment, but their cognitive functions are much more alive than ours.

Not that I understand what any of it is to do with Oblivion, but whatever point you were making, this is absoloute bollocks.

I completely agree with you, Dorrie. Antiphon got that cute little theory that doesn't make any sense, and he uses it to defend crappy games.

 

[bryce777]

Stupid kids make stupid adults, smart kids, smart adults. No doubt he was a stupid kid so what do you expect him to say?

 

[elander_]

Where's the new splendiforously amazing feature that will really sell Oblivion?

The amazing Wiki Dialog System Mark II ? Nobody will be lost in all those dialog options anymore with this marvel babe.

 

[Levski 1912]

Where's the new splendiforously amazing feature that will really sell Oblivion?

The amazing Wiki Dialog System Mark II ? Nobody will be lost in all those dialog options anymore with this marvel babe.

Stewardy soil horse erosion?

 

[obediah]

Also, there is a very serious thing you are overlooking - no fucking hard drives by default. That means that they are extremely limited in what they can do as far as caching stuff goes etc. etc.e tc. etc.

Why would the developer be "extremely limited"? I have zero experience maintaining a disk cache for a game running off of a DVD, but a decent amount of experience with writing caches in general. It should be easy peasy to have a single disk cache interface. If the game detects a hard drive it fills this interface with a real disk cache, otherwise it's a place holder that voids all inserts and returns a miss for all fetches. This maximises performance for the HD units at the cost of the non-HD units, but I'm sure a more clever solution could serve both versions well.

In one of the interviews they stated load times in a 360 w/ hard drive were much better than a 360 w/o hard drive, and comparable to PC load times.