Review Oblivion tickles RPGDot's fancy

[Elwro]

*i wish for a scroll of cure corruption*

No, no, no.

You should wish for scrolls of chaos resistance, because they're marginally better than potions of cure corruption.

ADOM rulez 'nuff said

 

[suibhne]

Broken? Glaring flaw? Why? Look, I'll happily bash all the individual flaws in RAI with you, but at the risk of playing the local Oblivion fanboy again, I don't accept such blanket statements.

I've put 95 hours into the game, and I'll probably invest another 25 or so finishing all of the major quest lines. I've seen numerous instances of what I'd honestly call "broken" AI - situations which either frustrated me or broke the immersiveness of the gameworld for me. Try these on for size:

- About 10,000 septims in undeserved fines incurred by theft or murder charges related to killing and looting Bandits. Yes, Bandits. (Well, actually, one of those fines was related to fighting Hackdirt Brethren, but same diff.)

- Multiple instances of Imperial Legionnaires and Imperial Foresters fighting and killing each other.

- Blue-blood NPCs engaging beggars in conversation about totally inappropriate topics.

- As mentioned earlier, Imperial Legionnaires attempting to kill Martin (and Jauffre joining in).

Those range from potentially game-breaking to just plain irritating. And they're all AI errors of various stripes.

You might not have encountered any of these in your game, but this is why I'm quick to agree that RAI is "broken". Yes, it's a letdown when contrasted to Beth's shameful hype, but in my 95 hours so far it's actually been much worse than a mere disappointment.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

- Blue-blood NPCs engaging beggars in conversation about totally inappropriate topics.

The best is when you overhear Imperial guards talking about the murders and exploits of the dark brotherhood to commoners/citizens....way to prevent a panic eh?

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Argh! That nasty gray fox stealing all my stuff! I hear he really doesn't exist, though...

 

[LlamaGod]

Grey Fox died in Metal Gear 2, though.

Now he's a ninja.

 

[Old Scratch]

Broken? Glaring flaw? Why? Look, I'll happily bash all the individual flaws in RAI with you, but at the risk of playing the local Oblivion fanboy again, I don't accept such blanket statements. In my game it's neither broken nor a glaring flaw. It's dissapointing especially compared to what it was hyped to be, but it behaves as far as I can see, as it is supposed to and it adds more than it takes away. It certainly is not broken in the sense that it has messed anything up in my game or made me want to stop playing the game. As to flaws: it does not stand up to close scrutiny (follow an NPC and see the unrealistic "holes" in their schedule. It does not measure up to Gothic in effect. I'd call it underwhelming, but not broken.

It does not function appropriately. Just a few personal examples:

-I've witnessed guards going to town killing each other
-NPCs ignoring other NPCs stealing right in front of them
-Characters stuck standing on chairs trying to walk through the back of them futiley
-NPCs walking off bridges in towns like lemmings to their death
-NPCs piling into inns on top of each other and remaining that way in in a big, "How ya doing?!" orgy
-I've seen characters chugging skooma endlessly even during conversations

There have been an overabundance of other non-combat(that's a different matter entirely) situations where the bad AI was almost painful to observe. In fact, they don't seem to do anything very interesting to make up for the shitty parts. They walk around which is nice I guess, go to their homes at some point, engage in jobs if they have them, and occassionally react if you steal their shit right in front of them, but those few basic, little things are hardly worth the immersion raping crap that came along with it.

When you frequently have to force yourself to ignore when the RAI is doing something retarded, it's what I consider a glaring flaw. I still like the game, but there's no need to excuse things that obviously don't work the way they should more often than not.

 

[dongle]

-I've seen characters chugging skooma endlessly even during conversations

There's a weird-ass graphic glitch when they do that, you can see their teeth through their chin for a moment. Disturbing. Pretty sure tho; them chugging it constantly is a feature, not a bug. Nothing wrong with NPCs -doing- something while they talk vs standing stock still and scowling and/or smiling.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Broken? Glaring flaw? Why? Look, I'll happily bash all the individual flaws in RAI with you, but at the risk of playing the local Oblivion fanboy again, I don't accept such blanket statements. In my game it's neither broken nor a glaring flaw. It's dissapointing especially compared to what it was hyped to be, but it behaves as far as I can see, as it is supposed to and it adds more than it takes away. It certainly is not broken in the sense that it has messed anything up in my game or made me want to stop playing the game. As to flaws: it does not stand up to close scrutiny (follow an NPC and see the unrealistic "holes" in their schedule. It does not measure up to Gothic in effect. I'd call it underwhelming, but not broken.

It does not function appropriately. Just a few personal examples:

-I've witnessed guards going to town killing each other
-NPCs ignoring other NPCs stealing right in front of them
-Characters stuck standing on chairs trying to walk through the back of them futiley
-NPCs walking off bridges in towns like lemmings to their death
-NPCs piling into inns on top of each other and remaining that way in in a big, "How ya doing?!" orgy
-I've seen characters chugging skooma endlessly even during conversations

There have been an overabundance of other non-combat(that's a different matter entirely) situations where the bad AI was almost painful to observe. In fact, they don't seem to do anything very interesting to make up for the shitty parts. They walk around which is nice I guess, go to their homes at some point, engage in jobs if they have them, and occassionally react if you steal their shit right in front of them, but those few basic, little things are hardly worth the immersion raping crap that came along with it.

When you frequently have to force yourself to ignore when the RAI is doing something retarded, it's what I consider a glaring flaw. I still like the game, but there's no need to excuse things that obviously don't work the way they should more often than not.

Although I mostly would consider most of those as glitches as opposed to "serious flaws" I certainly agree that such things are still far too common. Although I have to base that on forum opinions, because most have not yet happened to me. I have seen one pair of guards fighting - and that by itself is not a bad thing, it's when it happens constantly that it starts becoming a glitch as opposed to an interesting event. The drinking animation is a bit frantic, but again it's not a big thing. I was lucky enough to never encounter any of the other oddities you mentioned yet, which may explain my somewhat more positive outlook. The one thing I really want to criticize is the random conversations. I think this COULD have worked, but whoever did the writing for it didn't do his howmework properly. For one the topics are unnatural. The best conversations are the ones about far away news, but they repeat too often. Worse though, for some reason they thought they had to make the conversations gameplay relevant, with the result that all kinds of people constantly praise the local shops, talk about guild recruitment (even for the dark brotherhood!) or fake panic for the 100th time on the "news" that Oblivion gates open all over the place, just to wish each other a good day and continue on their ways in utter calm afterwards. It would have worked a lot better if the majority of conversations would be about totally uninteresting things: The weather, the harvest, shopping for new clothes, the health of the husband, etc. That would have provided a nice little background chatter, great for atmosphere but easily ignored. Then throw a couple of scripted conversations about current events and quests in for good measure so that they can be acted convincingly from start to finish.

 

[suibhne]

NPCs would have been much more convincing if Beth just toned down the RAI and hand-tuned a lot of scheduling. With a designer-day spent in each city, they could have worked up reasonable schedules; another few designer-days could've produced decent "chatter" conversations, and some "idle" animations (for shopkeepers, e.g.). This isn't rocket science, but it seems that Beth so desperately consumed their own fetid hype that they couldn't think of a way to fix these problems.

Either that, or they did basically no QA.

Pretty sure tho; them chugging it constantly is a feature, not a bug. Nothing wrong with NPCs -doing- something while they talk vs standing stock still and scowling and/or smiling.

Except that they keep shoving the Skooma bottle in their mouth at the same time as talking. It looks about as stupid as Mr. Ed reciting Melville.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

I think their mistake was sticking to the same in house QA troupe from start to finish. I am sure these guys tried their best, but if you are with such a project from start to finish, you come to accept certain parts of the game as a given, you loose the fresh perspective an outsider has. I already notice how the conversations seem less jarring now then when I first heard them and almost switched the game off in despair. How more easy to become used to this stuff if it's your job to play the game every day and look for actual bugs. The game would have profited tremendously from a (semi-) public beta sometime last fall/winter.

 

[aweigh]

I don't think anyone involved in the making of Oblivion "tried their best".

 

[bryce777]

I think their mistake was sticking to the same in house QA troupe from start to finish. I am sure these guys tried their best, but if you are with such a project from start to finish, you come to accept certain parts of the game as a given, you loose the fresh perspective an outsider has. I already notice how the conversations seem less jarring now then when I first heard them and almost switched the game off in despair. How more easy to become used to this stuff if it's your job to play the game every day and look for actual bugs. The game would have profited tremendously from a (semi-) public beta sometime last fall/winter.

It's seldomt he case QA doesn't find annoyances and such. What management does is just say fuck it and push it out anyhow, unless it has showstiopping bugs.

The idea that they would listen to feedback that has to do with design decisions that were questionable is vanishingly slim.

 

[Section8]

BUG REPORT: Merchants have unlimited money
STATUS: Open
PRIORITY: MEDIUM

When buying from any merchant in the game, their purse does not decrease after the player makes a sale. This exploit makes it incredibly easy for the player to earn a lot of money, and renders the Mercantile skill practically useless.

** UPDATE **
BUG REPORT: Merchants have unlimited money
STATUS: Closed
PRIORITY: MEDIUM

> When buying from any merchant in the game,
> their purse does not decrease after the player
> makes a sale. This exploit makes it incredibly
> easy for the player to earn a lot of money, and
> renders the Mercantile skill practically useless.

By Design. Status set to closed.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

I don't think anyone involved in the making of Oblivion "tried their best".

I do.

 

[Twinfalls]

And with that I hereby pronounce you Ghan and Wife.

 

[FaranBrygo]

What I want to know is why I can go into some guys house and proceed to knock everything he owns onto the floor and have his only reaction be "How are you?"

 

[HotSnack]

Oblivion doesn't have that "bouncy physics" going on does it? That annoyed the hell out of me in Thief 3.

 

[Rat Keeng]

Bouncy physics? When you kill someone, their body is blown upwards and back about 10 feet, and then they gently float towards the ground like a feather. It can be amusing to watch, much like the borked AI, crappy random conversations, schizo beggers, shitty dialogue and all that, but it's a far cry from realism.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

-NPCs walking off bridges in towns like lemmings to their death

You know things are bleak when NPCs are mass committing suicide. You weren't in Jonestown by any chance?

 

[Roqua]

I don’t get you fuck heads at all. Why do you care what the reviews are or what they missed when you already bought the game? Stop whining. 99% of you bought the game before it was even reviewed. You decided to buy it before anyone even thought of reviewing it.

So this is where we are: attack the game before release, buy it, and continue attacking. Wouldn’t it make more sense to attack, not buy (or play), and then continue attacking? Why buy a game that is a big source of hate and frustration? I know I wouldn’t like it, so I didn’t waste my time and money on it.

What makes the most sense is not discussing Oblivion here at all, since this site is supposed to be about rpgs. It makes any conversation about how good an rpg element was implemented into the game kind of moot, since it is an action game, and any rpg element put in is pretty much icing on the cake.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

BUG REPORT: Merchants have unlimited money
STATUS: Open
PRIORITY: MEDIUM

When buying from any merchant in the game, their purse does not decrease after the player makes a sale. This exploit makes it incredibly easy for the player to earn a lot of money, and renders the Mercantile skill practically useless.

** UPDATE **
BUG REPORT: Merchants have unlimited money
STATUS: Closed
PRIORITY: MEDIUM

> When buying from any merchant in the game,
> their purse does not decrease after the player
> makes a sale. This exploit makes it incredibly
> easy for the player to earn a lot of money, and
> renders the Mercantile skill practically useless.

By Design. Status set to closed.

That's silly. You'd think this would have been a good thing for the Radiant AI to attempt to handle. Farmers grow crops, sell crops, merchants buy and sell things for profit, etc. Hoes break, farmers need new ones.

Of course, at the very least, they should have implimented a basic pool of cash for a merchant which replenishes daily or weekly. That would be an EASY solution to impliment.

 

[Old Scratch]

I don’t get you fuck heads at all. Why do you care what the reviews are or what they missed when you already bought the game? Stop whining. 99% of you bought the game before it was even reviewed. You decided to buy it before anyone even thought of reviewing it.

So this is where we are: attack the game before release, buy it, and continue attacking. Wouldn’t it make more sense to attack, not buy (or play), and then continue attacking? Why buy a game that is a big source of hate and frustration? I know I wouldn’t like it, so I didn’t waste my time and money on it.

What makes the most sense is not discussing Oblivion here at all, since this site is supposed to be about rpgs. It makes any conversation about how good an rpg element was implemented into the game kind of moot, since it is an action game, and any rpg element put in is pretty much icing on the cake.

I have enjoyed the game quite a bit for the most part. My personal enjoyment doesn't eliminate the fact that the game is one heavily flawed son of a bitch.

It's not exactly like we've been rolling in RPG releases here for the last few years, eventually an action RPG or two is boud to be discussed since that's basically all that gets released commercially anymore. I think most of the folks around here understand it's more of an action game than an RPG, but that doesn't mean it gets a pass on it's shortcomings, regardless of whether or not they're attempted RPG elements.

 

[bryce777]

Bouncy physics? When you kill someone, their body is blown upwards and back about 10 feet, and then they gently float towards the ground like a feather. It can be amusing to watch, much like the borked AI, crappy random conversations, schizo beggers, shitty dialogue and all that, but it's a far cry from realism.

r00fles!

 

[bryce777]

I don’t get you fuck heads at all. Why do you care what the reviews are or what they missed when you already bought the game? Stop whining. 99% of you bought the game before it was even reviewed. You decided to buy it before anyone even thought of reviewing it.

So this is where we are: attack the game before release, buy it, and continue attacking. Wouldn’t it make more sense to attack, not buy (or play), and then continue attacking? Why buy a game that is a big source of hate and frustration? I know I wouldn’t like it, so I didn’t waste my time and money on it.

What makes the most sense is not discussing Oblivion here at all, since this site is supposed to be about rpgs. It makes any conversation about how good an rpg element was implemented into the game kind of moot, since it is an action game, and any rpg element put in is pretty much icing on the cake.

Well, I didn't buy it. I agree they should call it an action dressup game or some such, not an rpg....