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Obsidian General Discussion Thread

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
Yes, you're responding to my response to a post about that layoff

And now I'm responding to a response about my response about a post about that layoff.

The point is that Obsidian seems to have, once again, negotiated themselves into another zero-sum contract. Obsidian should consider hiring a lawyer to look over their contracts. They will never get out of this rut as long as they negotiate over desperation and the other parties keep taking advantage over that.

What rut, you think they thought they were going to work on a Russian tank MMO forever? Read Anthony Davis and badler's posts in this thread, they're all right.

The Obsidian shilling is strong here. Layoffs are never a good sign for Obsidian.

As far as I understood it - they took on a big project and had to hire more people than usual to do it. Now that the project is nearing its end (or at least - the end of the work Obsidian will be doing on it), they let those extra people go.

Nothing uncommon about that, it's done in all types of studios all the time - there's a core team, and you take on/let go temporary people according to how big/small the current projects are.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Dreams, where I'm a viking.
Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
Possibly layoffs are now part of the lifecycle of a "healthy" company. Get a project, tool up, finish it, tool down, repeat. Definitely shitty for the people involved but capitalism is a combination of analyst and therapist, as usual.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
It's a very large project (half the company) that doesn't have much overlap with their other projects. And they've been working on it for years. At some point, that golden goose was going to stop laying eggs and there were going to be layoffs.

I'd wager layoffs were plan B. Plan A would've been to find another project or projects that could've absorbed the people being shed from AW.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It's a very large project (half the company) that doesn't have much overlap with their other projects. And they've been working on it for years. At some point, that golden goose was going to stop laying eggs and there were going to be layoffs.

I'd wager layoffs were plan B. Plan A would've been to find another project or projects that could've absorbed the people being shed from AW.

For a smaller game yes, but I wouldn't be surprised if they never had any realistic intention of trying to retain every single vehicle modeller and multiplayer QA specialist they had on Armored Warfare. Could be that much of its "AAA" manpower is going to be transferred to Tim and Leonard's game, though.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
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Feb 17, 2009
Messages
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Platypus Planet
As far as I understood it - they took on a big project and had to hire more people than usual to do it. Now that the project is nearing its end (or at least - the end of the work Obsidian will be doing on it), they let those extra people go.

Nothing uncommon about that, it's done in all types of studios all the time - there's a core team, and you take on/let go temporary people according to how big/small the current projects are.

Do you understand the meaning of zero-sum? The russians are cutting work on Obsidians part but hiring people on their end so we can infer that they still need roguhly the same amount of workforce working on the game. The russians are simply cutting Obsidian off and hiring their cheaper workforce after Obsidian did all the heavy lifting. How's that good for Obz? I'm sure they wanted to milk the MMO for as long as possible as having a steady flow of income is great, but Mail.ru is probably going to cut them off completely at some point.

It's a very large project (half the company) that doesn't have much overlap with their other projects. And they've been working on it for years. At some point, that golden goose was going to stop laying eggs and there were going to be layoffs. You can hardly say that they've been screwed because like I said, it's surprising that an Eastern European publisher hired an expensive American developer to do anything in the first place. Honestly I'd say Obsidian were the ones doing the screwing.

It really depends on if they were contractors or not who got the boot. Usually you'd delegate permanent employees into other projects once their part on the project is finished.
 
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Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
Do you understand the meaning of zero-sum? The russians are cutting work on Obsidians part but hiring people on their end so we can infer that they still need roguhly the same amount of workforce working on the game. The russians are simply cutting Obsidian off and hiring their cheaper workforce after Obsidian did all the heavy lifting. How's that good for Obz? I'm sure they wanted to milk the MMO for as long as possible as having a steady flow of income is great, but Mail.ru is probably going to cut them off completely at some point.

That part isn't good for Obsidian, but if they made enough money beforehand before it that happened the deal as a whole might have been. No business arrangement is perpetual.

Maybe Obsidian wanted to have something in the pipe to fill the gap when it ended and didn't find anything. Maybe that was even because the Russians ended the deal earlier than anticipated. That could be bad for Obsidian, but if the deal had made enough money before that it still could have been worth it.

Obviously we don't know if any of this is true. The point is just that there are multiple scenarios where the deal could have been good for Obsidian overall and layoffs happened.
 
Joined
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Messages
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Yes, you're responding to my response to a post about that layoff

And now I'm responding to a response about my response about a post about that layoff.

The point is that Obsidian seems to have, once again, negotiated themselves into another zero-sum contract. Obsidian should consider hiring a lawyer to look over their contracts. They will never get out of this rut as long as they negotiate over desperation and the other parties keep taking advantage over that.

:hmmm:


I'm pretty sure having a lawyer look over contracts involving a significant amount of capital between companies is defacto law now.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
13,997
Location
Platypus Planet
Do you understand the meaning of zero-sum? The russians are cutting work on Obsidians part but hiring people on their end so we can infer that they still need roguhly the same amount of workforce working on the game. The russians are simply cutting Obsidian off and hiring their cheaper workforce after Obsidian did all the heavy lifting. How's that good for Obz? I'm sure they wanted to milk the MMO for as long as possible as having a steady flow of income is great, but Mail.ru is probably going to cut them off completely at some point.

That part isn't good for Obsidian, but if they made enough money beforehand before it that happened the deal as a whole might have been. No business arrangement is perpetual.

Maybe Obsidian wanted to have something in the pipe to fill the gap when it ended and didn't find anything. Maybe that was even because the Russians ended the deal earlier than anticipated. That could be bad for Obsidian, but if the deal had made enough money before that it still could have been worth it.

Obviously we don't know if any of this is true. The point is just that there are multiple scenarios where the deal could have been good for Obsidian overall and layoffs happened.

My understanding was always that Obsidian wanted an MMO cashcow to milk on for a long time, but if that wasn't their intention (why wouldn't it be though?), then I have been mistaken.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
vehicle modeller and multiplayer QA specialist

Ehh, roles aren't that specialised. A vehicle modeller can model buildings or trees or pieces of armour; a QA specialist is a QA specialist. Our current QA lead used to test spacecraft parts. (Not a lot gets past her BTW.)

I suppose there are some genuinely esoteric areas in MMO games that require specialists (synchronising player states across lots of clients in real-time combat when allowing for latency is a knotty problem), but there aren't gonna be many, and anyone good enough to be able to handle them will be good enough to do engine programming in any project. (Or voluntarily leave and go somewhere else, if they want to continue working in their specialisation -- people like that are always in demand.)
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,997
Location
Platypus Planet
Yes, you're responding to my response to a post about that layoff

And now I'm responding to a response about my response about a post about that layoff.

The point is that Obsidian seems to have, once again, negotiated themselves into another zero-sum contract. Obsidian should consider hiring a lawyer to look over their contracts. They will never get out of this rut as long as they negotiate over desperation and the other parties keep taking advantage over that.

:hmmm:


I'm pretty sure having a lawyer look over contracts involving a significant amount of capital between companies is defacto law now.

Does it have to be your own lawyer or can the other party provide you with their own? Would explain New Vegas.

Do you understand the meaning of zero-sum? The russians are cutting work on Obsidians part but hiring people on their end so we can infer that they still need roguhly the same amount of workforce working on the game. The russians are simply cutting Obsidian off and hiring their cheaper workforce after Obsidian did all the heavy lifting. How's that good for Obz? I'm sure they wanted to milk the MMO for as long as possible as having a steady flow of income is great, but Mail.ru is probably going to cut them off completely at some point.

That part isn't good for Obsidian, but if they made enough money beforehand before it that happened the deal as a whole might have been. No business arrangement is perpetual.

Maybe Obsidian wanted to have something in the pipe to fill the gap when it ended and didn't find anything. Maybe that was even because the Russians ended the deal earlier than anticipated. That could be bad for Obsidian, but if the deal had made enough money before that it still could have been worth it.

Obviously we don't know if any of this is true. The point is just that there are multiple scenarios where the deal could have been good for Obsidian overall and layoffs happened.

I just recalled that the article in question did mention Feargus saying that they were working with the people being laid off to find new jobs, so it is doubtful that they were simple contractors, unless Obsidian is unusually nice to contractors (not impossible). If that is the case then we may assume that Obsidian did hire them in the hope that they were going to be permanent.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
6,165
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Yes, you're responding to my response to a post about that layoff

And now I'm responding to a response about my response about a post about that layoff.

The point is that Obsidian seems to have, once again, negotiated themselves into another zero-sum contract. Obsidian should consider hiring a lawyer to look over their contracts. They will never get out of this rut as long as they negotiate over desperation and the other parties keep taking advantage over that.

:hmmm:


I'm pretty sure having a lawyer look over contracts involving a significant amount of capital between companies is defacto law now.

Does it have to be your own lawyer or can the other party provide you with their own? Would explain New Vegas.

Do you understand the meaning of zero-sum? The russians are cutting work on Obsidians part but hiring people on their end so we can infer that they still need roguhly the same amount of workforce working on the game. The russians are simply cutting Obsidian off and hiring their cheaper workforce after Obsidian did all the heavy lifting. How's that good for Obz? I'm sure they wanted to milk the MMO for as long as possible as having a steady flow of income is great, but Mail.ru is probably going to cut them off completely at some point.

That part isn't good for Obsidian, but if they made enough money beforehand before it that happened the deal as a whole might have been. No business arrangement is perpetual.


Maybe Obsidian wanted to have something in the pipe to fill the gap when it ended and didn't find anything. Maybe that was even because the Russians ended the deal earlier than anticipated. That could be bad for Obsidian, but if the deal had made enough money before that it still could have been worth it.

Obviously we don't know if any of this is true. The point is just that there are multiple scenarios where the deal could have been good for Obsidian overall and layoffs happened.

I just recalled that the article in question did mention Feargus saying that they were working with the people being laid off to find new jobs, so it is doubtful that they were simple contractors, unless Obsidian is unusually nice to contractors (not impossible). If that is the case then we may assume that Obsidian did hire them in the hope that they were going to be permanent.

There isn't a specific law that I know of that requires such a thing, but for example, not having a lawyer look over a contract critical to the company's finances would be grounds for filing an injunction against the CEO.

Not exactly the same thing since they don't necessarily have an interest in either signatory's "side" of the contract, but notaries are lawyers who have to verify contracts to ensure that everything in them is actually legal. I also think they have some kind of vague obligation to disclose if they think the contract is fair or not before formalizing it.
 
Last edited:

Fry

Arcane
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
1,922
Literally nothing has been added to this discussion by the last page pf posts. This shit was asked and answered days ago.

Stop talking out of your asshole.
 

Quillon

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
5,214
Now that Horizon ZD is about to be finished Obs should try to get Gonzalez back, offer him twice the money or something.
 

Klarion

Arcane
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
1,864,550
Location
Stonekeep
What games is Obsidian working on right now? PoE 2, what else? I read a list somewhere on Codex a few weeks ago but totally forgot... Please remind me someone...
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
What games is Obsidian working on right now? PoE 2, what else? I read a list somewhere on Codex a few weeks ago but totally forgot... Please remind me someone...

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...discussion-thread.84849/page-157#post-4871963
thanks

Looks like Pathfinder RPG is not happening, instead we'll get Vampire RPG.

Since people seem to have forgotten this - there is no real indication that Obsidian are working on a Vampire: The Masquerade RPG. This is what Feargus said earlier this year: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=10304

White Wolf Publishing registered Vampire Bloodlines. Would you like to work on that?

I think Vampire would be really cool, but that’s the tough bit – there are so many cool things, there are so many awesome things out there.
 

vortex

Fabulous Optimist
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
4,221
Location
Temple of Alvilmelkedic
It will be so cool Obsidian releases the trailer for their super secret project (Boyarsky-Cain). Even the 20 sec trailer would suffice for now. 2016 would end less painfully.
 

Klarion

Arcane
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
1,864,550
Location
Stonekeep
It will be so cool Obsidian releases the trailer for their super secret project (Boyarsky-Cain). Even the 20 sec trailer would suffice for now. 2016 would end less painfully.
It's confirmed that the secret project is lead by them?

What games is Obsidian working on right now? PoE 2, what else? I read a list somewhere on Codex a few weeks ago but totally forgot... Please remind me someone...

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...discussion-thread.84849/page-157#post-4871963
thanks

Looks like Pathfinder RPG is not happening, instead we'll get Vampire RPG.

Since people seem to have forgotten this - there is no real indication that Obsidian are working on a Vampire: The Masquerade RPG. This is what Feargus said earlier this year: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=10304

White Wolf Publishing registered Vampire Bloodlines. Would you like to work on that?

I think Vampire would be really cool, but that’s the tough bit – there are so many cool things, there are so many awesome things out there.
OK, so far we know there's one secret RPG project they're working on... is anything known about it yet?
 

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