Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[soulburner]

I think it has been established long ago we use "New Vegas 2" as a codename for a non-Bethesda Fallout game. Nobody wishes to return to New Vegas.

 

[Roguey]

I think it has been established long ago we use "New Vegas 2" as a codename for a non-Bethesda Fallout game. Nobody wishes to return to New Vegas.

Chris Avellone did, which is why he came up with tunnelers to drastically alter the landscape.

 

[Atlantico]

One could say Fallout 76 was almost a "New Vegas 2" since BattleCry Studios wasn't directly under BSG until FO76 was released in 2018, until then it was a sister company under ZeniMax.

So I'd expect similar success with current Obsidian if they'd take a shot at it now. I'm always happy to be pleasantly surprised, but I see no reason to expect anything but (current year) mediocrity from people who learned creative writing at school and watch Rick and Morty.

 

[Bester]

Sawyer has mentioned several times that the Creation Engine was the easiest engine he has worked with

Was this the impression you got, when he told the story of how it took them 6 months to make revolvers reload bullets one by one? (and it's still buggy as fuck, used by speedrunners to launch themselves into air at Mach 1?)

 

[normie]

Sawyer has mentioned several times that the Creation Engine was the easiest engine he has worked with

Was this the impression you got, when he told the story of how it took them 6 months to make revolvers reload bullets one by one? (and it's still buggy as fuck, used by speedrunners to launch themselves into air at Mach 1?)

No, that's the impression he got when Sawyer said it was the easiest he has worked with.

 

[Bad Sector]

Was this the impression you got, when he told the story of how it took them 6 months to make revolvers reload bullets one by one? (and it's still buggy as fuck, used by speedrunners to launch themselves into air at Mach 1?)

No, what normie wrote. Or really what i wrote. Even in his interview with RPG Codex some time ago he mentioned how easy it was to make and script stuff in the engine.

Chances are they did face issues but all engines have issues - and if they don't, developers will make their own regardless. An engine can be hard to make some things with but overall still be easier to work with compared to other engines.

(and also TBH i doubt they spent 1/3rd of the game's entire development time on the revolver reloading, most likely those six months were the time it took between deciding to do it and actually finishing the work, but whoever worked on it also worked on a bunch of other stuff)

 

[NecroLord]

Obsidian stopped being relevant a long time ago.
Don't know what do you all expect from this company anymore.

 

[Bester]

No, what @normie wrote. Or really what i wrote. Even in his interview with RPG Codex some time ago he mentioned how easy it was to make and script stuff in the engine.

You're in gamedev, you should know what some liberal arts faggot thinks about tech is not relevant when choosing tech. This isn't what defines how good tech is.

The limitations do define it. Their inability to add revolver reload quickly or to add pipboy changes that Avellone requested on his DLCs tell you much more about how bad it is. He wanted someone to scramble your pipboy or some shit, and it wasn't doable by obsidian female quota hirees. It means bethesda's shit is not an engine proper, but literally just code for one particular game.

 

[Bad Sector]

You're in gamedev, you should know what some liberal arts faggot thinks about tech is not relevant when choosing tech. This isn't what defines how good tech is.

The post i replied to was about the engine being shit and everything i've heard about from people who have used it was positive. It is also incredibly popular among modders due to how easy the tools are. I don't know how the C++ codebase is but i doubt it'd be anything that a half-decent C++ programmer couldn't handle.

Note that this wasn't about choosing Creation Engine or not, but if they want to make something like Fallout New Vegas then it is the most logical choice - not only because of how easy the tools are but also because of the systems the engine already has, it was designed for these games. After all when Obsidian tried to bend Unreal be like FNV they couldn't even get half the things Creation Engine had (like proper inventories, for example).

On the other hand if they want to make something different then the Creation Engine isn't a good choice as it was made for basically one type of game.

 

[NecroLord]

I have a feeling New Vegas 2 is going to be a reality and it'll probably be Sawyer at the helm or Obsidian at the very least.
I'm not sure Microsoft would be happy letting the Fallout IP lay dormant for nearly a decade with only Fallout 76 to represent it while Toddler works on the next Elder Scrolls.
I also feel like any New Vegas 2 will try way too hard to recapture what New Vegas had that it'll end up feeling tryhard and cringe. Probably pozzed to hell except it will be blatant "current year" type shit.

What?
You aren't excited for New Vegas 2: Electric Boogaloo?

 

[Bester]

The post i replied to was about the engine being shit and everything i've heard about from people who have used it was positive.

If placing mobs in a level and dropping inventory items into their pockets is what "engine usage is" for you, you have some thinking to do. Any engine can do that. Try building it for switch. What, you can't? And nobody in the world can build it for switch? But I thought this was an amazing engine, cause sawyer and some pink haired trans people enjoyed it.
I feel like I'm talking to chatgpt here.

 

[Vyvian]

I have a feeling New Vegas 2 is going to be a reality and it'll probably be Sawyer at the helm or Obsidian at the very least.
I'm not sure Microsoft would be happy letting the Fallout IP lay dormant for nearly a decade with only Fallout 76 to represent it while Toddler works on the next Elder Scrolls.
I also feel like any New Vegas 2 will try way too hard to recapture what New Vegas had that it'll end up feeling tryhard and cringe. Probably pozzed to hell except it will be blatant "current year" type shit.

What?
You aren't excited for New Vegas 2: Electric Boogaloo?

It would depend heavily on who was running development and the people working on it in general.
Feel like it would be a Bloodlines 2 situation.

 

[Bad Sector]

If placing mobs in a level and dropping inventory items into their pockets is what "engine usage is" for you, you have some thinking to do. Any engine can do that.

What i was referring to wasn't being able to do it (if you have the source code you can technically do anything you want) but how easy it is to do it and the existing systems the engine already has. As an example in a previous company i worked at placing items meant finding a spawner template in the asset browser, unlocking the world layer the item would be in, drag-and-dropping the template in the world, setting up the item to spawn in the spawner properties and then locking the world layer (if no further changes were to be made). In Creation Engine you find the item in the database window and drag-and-drop it in the world.

The tools are incredibly important - if not the most important - for an engine as almost all of the people working on the game will do it via the tools.

When working on that engine i refer to one day i noticed that pick up items respawn if you go too far and come back - because of how the streaming system worked as it was not designed with persistence in mind (it was made for different games - FWIW we fixed the issue after founding it). Meanwhile Creation Engine was already designed with that in mind since Morrowind - the systems are already there.

I can easily accept that Creation Engine is unwieldy and hard to make it do things it wasn't designed to do - it isn't uncommon for something that provides a user friendly environment to have a ton of assumptions internally for how things will work. This is why i wrote if you are making something that doesn't fit the Bethesda mold it makes no sense to use it. But if you are making something that fits the mold and you have the engine available then you'd be crazy not to use it as it was designed exactly for that and already provides both tools (which people who have actually used them say they are easy to use) and systems for what you are trying to do.

And at the end we can only discuss about the things we have seen. I haven't seen the C++ side of the engine and unless someone has and has enough experience with C++ game engines to judge how hard or easy something is, they'd be talking out of their ass. Beyond that we can discuss stuff we have seen - like the tools that are publicly available - as well as what the experiences of the people who have worked with it. For anything else might as well discuss about housing on Andromeda.

Try building it for switch. What, you can't? And nobody in the world can build it for switch?

Of course you can port the engine to Switch, it already supports multiple platforms so the foundation for that is there. And in fact Skyrim was ported to Switch, which shows the engine can be used there.

 

[fantadomat]

Obsidian stopped being relevant a long time ago.
Don't know what do you all expect from this company anymore.

A survival mmo.

 

[Bester]

The tools are incredibly important - if not the most important

Older RPGs notoriously had the shittiest tools possible, yet were on another level compared to modern RPGs. Modern RPGs provide tools to accommodate the trooniest of "designers", you can practically dilate in them, and yet modern RPGs are shit.
Huh, tools aren't the most important part of the engine, would you look at that.

 

[Bester]

And in fact Skyrim was ported to Switch, which shows the engine can be used there.

It shows no such thing.

Have a look:
Divos 2 platforms: Windows, PS4, XBox One, MacOS, Switch
BG3 platforms: no switch. Oh no, what happened, I thought your engine could do it out of the box.

It doesn't work that way, because their shit isn't an engine, it's a constantly evolving GAME code. While adding new features, they couldn't keep parity with switch, because all the people who knew how to do it left due to Swen being an extreme cunt, so switch capability was lost, now it'll have to be outsourced.

 

[Butter]

Older RPGs notoriously had the shittiest tools possible, yet were on another level compared to modern RPGs. Modern RPGs provide tools to accommodate the trooniest of "designers", you can practically dilate in them, and yet modern RPGs are shit.
Huh, tools aren't the most important part of the engine, would you look at that.

The designers aren't part of the engine.

 

[Bad Sector]

Older RPGs notoriously had the shittiest tools possible, yet were on another level compared to modern RPGs. Modern RPGs provide tools to accommodate the trooniest of "designers", you can practically dilate in them, and yet modern RPGs are shit.
Huh, tools aren't the most important part of the engine, would you look at that.

A good artist can make a masterpiece out of dried feces, that doesn't make shit a good medium for art.

And on the flip side, a good tool wont make a good game but it will enable a good designer to make the game much better and faster than they would with a bad tool. Considering how time consuming making games is, especially these days, the last thing you want is for the designers and other developers working on the game to be held back by shitty tools.

BG3 platforms: no switch. Oh no, what happened, I thought your engine could do it out of the box.

We were discussing the Creation Engine, what does BG3 have to do with it?

It doesn't work that way, because their shit isn't an engine, it's a constantly evolving GAME code. While adding new features, they couldn't keep parity with switch, because all the people who knew how to do it left due to Swen being an extreme cunt, so switch capability was lost, now it'll have to be outsourced.

Considering they had issues bringing the game to XBox Series S, a much more powerful platform than the Switch, i'm going to bet that the reason they didn't make a Switch port wasn't because the programmers couldn't port the engine but because the Switch is not powerful enough to run the game.

 

[Sannom]

A survival mmo.

Already done. Well, it's multiplayer even if not on a MMO level.

 

[Infinitron]

KOTOR2 Switch port from Aspyr:

https://www.eurogamer.net/knights-o...aspyr-did-nothing-wrong-by-cancelling-the-dlc

Knights of the Old Republic 2 Restored Content modder says "Aspyr did nothing wrong" by cancelling the DLC​

"Quote me on that."

One of the original programmers who was part of the volunteer effort to bring the Restored Content mod to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 – The Sith Lords says Aspyr Media "did nothing wrong" when it cancelled the DLC for Switch.

Aspyr Media revealed on Friday that Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 – The Sith Lords' highly-anticipated DLC, Restored Content, would now not be coming to Nintendo Switch after all. The team did not explain why the DLC would "not be moving forward", and would not offer refunds either, instead choosing to offer a complimentary key for one of seven other Star Wars games.

As fans responded to the news, modder zbyl2 – who helped bring the Restored Content mod to PC in the first place – popped up in a comment on the KOTOR subreddit, saying: "Aspyr did nothing wrong. Quote me on that. Shame it ended the way it did".

"I have nothing but good things to say about Aspyr and our cooperation over the past eight years," they added.

The modder also made it clear that the cancellation had nothing to do with the "higher ups not wanting to give credit to the modding team".

"I made the mod. The above is 100 per cent false and I'm sad you got so many upvotes, because that rumour is now going to spread," they said.

"Aspyr was great to work with and they offered to credit the whole team long before I even asked about it."

That hasn't quite settled the disquiet of some players who believe that they should be offered "at least a partial refund" "considering [Aspyr] sold the game based on what turned out to be a false promise".

This time last year it was reported that the Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic remake was "in serious trouble" and "delayed indefinitely" after Aspyr fired the game's art director and design director and told staff the hotly-anticipated remake was "on pause".

The dramatic decision came after Aspyr, which had been working on the game for three years at the time, demoed a vertical slice to Lucasfilm and publisher Sony which surmised the demo "wasn't where they wanted it to be".

https://www.thegamer.com/star-wars-...t-aspyr-saber-cancelled-restored-content-dlc/

Star Wars Fans Launch Class Action Lawsuit Over Cancelled KOTOR 2 DLC​

Aspyr and Saber Interactive face a class action lawsuit after the restored content mod for KOTOR 2 on Switch was cancelled.

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 - The Sith Lords was ported to Switch last year, breathing new life into the often-overlooked sequel. Better yet, the announcement trailer stated that the Restored Content Mod would be available as DLC, which as many fans will tell you, is the best way to experience the classic RPG. However, amid trouble behind the scenes, the DLC was later cancelled, leaving KOTOR 2 just as unfinished as it is on other platforms.

Now, fans are mobilising, launching a class action lawsuit against developer Aspyr Media and publisher Saber Interactive. The suit is said to involve multiple fans who purchased KOTOR 2 on Switch, arguing that they would not have done so if not for the promised DLC. The suit argues that Aspyr and Saber are legally obligated to provide refunds, as some buyers say they never even played the game because they were waiting for the restored content.

The case, Malachi Mickelonis v. Aspyr Media, Inc. et al, can be viewed online, showing that it was filed in July of this year. The fans and their lawyer, Ray Kim, demand a jury trial, and the defendants have until October 4 to respond.

"In 2022, Defendants [Aspyr and Saber] advertised KOTOR to users of the video console Nintendo Switch as having never-before released 'Restored Content DLC,'" reads the lawsuit. "Plaintiff and numerous other consumers were excited about the new content that Defendants claimed was 'coming soon.' In fact, KOTOR sat at the top of Nintendo’s e-Shop rankings."

But of course, the DLC was later cancelled on June 2, a few days after we reported that all references to the restored content had been quietly removed from the announcement trailer.

"Plaintiff felt completely duped," the lawsuit continues. "In fact, Plaintiff did not even play KOTOR after purchasing it, instead choosing to wait until the Restored Content DLC was released."

This isn't too hard to believe. The general consensus in the fanbase is that you should only play with the restored content mod installed, even if it's your first playthrough. Far from being material that the original developer, Obsidian, felt didn't fit the game, much of it was only removed due to time constraints.

Still, there are a few things getting in the way of the plaintiffs being successful here. For starters, games and in-game content are often cancelled - an unfortunate reality of the industry. Furthermore, even if refunds weren't granted, Aspyr did offer affected fans a copy of KOTOR 2 on Steam - where the mod can be played for free - or another Star Wars game altogether. It remains to be seen if these fans can argue that this didn't go far enough, and that an exception to the usual refund procedures should have been granted.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

That's crazy man.

 

[Nano]

Nintendo fans are insane.

 

[Bulo]

Nintendo fans are insane.

Insanely based

 

[Cross]

The joke's on them when they win this lawsuit and have to file another lawsuit to remove the awful fan-made content included in the restored content mod.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

For real, who tf are these fans who think TSLRCM is some Holy Grail, the whole thing is trash tier fanfic, falsely advertised as restored content.