Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Hormalakh]

thanks infinitron. your jewish prowess in news is noted.
honeycomb design sounds awesome.
i doubt that they are going to content lock the stuff so that you can't go back if you're in a new chapter. i thought sawyer believed in non-linear design and content-locking like that isn't his style. he didn't do it in fallout:new vegas either.
carrie talks more about her book and writing in general than the game, which is why she could go into more depth. No NDA on The Buried Life.

 

[Arkeus]

Progression in PE is probably going to be more guided than the Baldur's Gates. Meaning that access to areas is probably chapter gated. I am fairly positive that instead of being able to choose whether you go to Twin Elms or Defiance Bay after the Dyrford, you'll probably do them in a certain order because of the static nature of the encounter design and rewards.

The reason I think this is likely is the fact that Josh dislike's BG2's "Chapter 2" - and subsequently probably Baldur's Gate's openness as well and his IE games were more linear.

Probably a good topic for an Obsidian board discussion actually.

I... What?

BG content is EXTRMELY chapter-gated. In BG1, you can't access the mines in the woods before doing Nashkel, or acess the bandit camps before then either. Likewise, you cannot access Baldur's Gate itself before a long, long while.

BG2 is even worse, as there is a clear Akhatla => Spellhold => serpent => underdark => Akathla => Elves progression.

If anything, Josh Sawyer complained that all the secondary quests in BG2 were in chapter 2/3 with almost nothing after, and that he wanted to do something with more freedom than that (one of the reasons he prefers BG1 to BG2 is because BG has more freedom).

 

[Hormalakh]

^Yup I agree. I would look to FO:NV for his thoughts on content locking as opposed to anything else. Content locking isn't a IE-nostalgia inducing component nor should that shit be part of their current design.

 

[Sensuki]

No no no, forward content-gating.

For instance. The Bandit Camp, Cloakwood and Baldur's Gate are content-gated, and you access them by setting off the chapter trigger (There are a few for the Bandit Camp, that is probably my favourite Quest in BG1 from a Design Perspective, even if it is done all by mistake - lots of ways to access it, very simple objective which you can conduct in any manner you wish and none of the content is gated if you've already exposed the location [but I think some dialogues are]).

What I am saying is that I think that access to different regions in the game will be chapter gated. There's chapter gating in all of the IE games but here you may find that in order to access Twin Elms, you need to be in Chapter 3 or 4 or something.

BG content is EXTRMELY chapter-gated. In BG1, you can't access the mines in the woods before doing Nashkel

Pretty sure (almost 100% positive) that you can.

In the BGs there is a HUGE amount of content that is not chapter gated.

BG1 - every area on the world map except the ones mentioned above.
BG2 - De'Arnise Hold, Trademeet, Umar Hills, Windspear Hills and associated areas are all available at Chapter 2, as Prologue and Chapter 1 are linear.

Icewind Dales is straight forward progression.

PE will likely be in between the two.

 

[Arkeus]

What I am saying is that I think that access to different regions in the game will be chapter gated. There's chapter gating in all of the IE games but here you may find that in order to access Twin Elms, you need to be in Chapter 3 or 4 or something.

The same way you can only access BG in chapter 5 or something, or cannot access Akathla in chapter 4/5/7?

Pretty sure (almost 100% positive) that you can.

Huh. I... am almost 100% positive of the opposite. I haven't played BG in half a decade though, so maybe i am wrong. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Infinitron]

Sensuki is wrong about that.

 

[Sensuki]

I replayed BG last year. From one of the speed runs I'm pretty sure you can access the mines without going to Nashkel. You can go to the Carnival Area instead, which also triggers Chapter 2. I'm pretty sure going around (ie through the wilderness areas) would be slower than just going through Nashkell or the Carnival area to get there (in minutes and seconds).

 

[Athelas]

Don't you trigger a chapter transition as soon as you come in the vicinity of those areas? Speaking of 'guided experiences', the chapter narrations in BG were ridiculous: the narrator would tell you that you had to go to Nashkel mines or the Bandit's hideout for some reason that was personal to you, yet never really explained why.

 

[Arkeus]

I replayed BG last year. From one of the speed runs I'm pretty sure you can access the mines without going to Nashkel. You can go to the Carnival Area instead, which also triggers Chapter 2. I'm pretty sure going around (ie through the wilderness areas) would be slower than just going through Nashkell or the Carnival area to get there (in minutes and seconds).

I meant the mines in the woods (can't remember the name of the woods) have to be done /after/ the mines in Nashkel, not that you need to go to Nashkel before doing the Nashkel Mines.

 

[Sensuki]

Cloakwood. I already mentioned this in a post I was typing before I saw your post while replying to Hormalakh

The Bandit Camp, Cloakwood and Baldur's Gate are content-gated

If anything, Josh Sawyer complained that all the secondary quests in BG2 were in chapter 2/3 with almost nothing after, and that he wanted to do something with more freedom than that (one of the reasons he prefers BG1 to BG2 is because BG has more freedom).

Well technically Josh Sawyer is wrong about that. You can complete optional quest hubs in BG2 in Chapter 2, 3 or 6. I recall doing Windspear Hills in Chapter 6 once I think, because in Chapter 2 and 3 I never spoke to Firkraag at the Copper Coronet. Some of them may be locked, but not all of them.

Personally I don't think that the content-gating in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 are that different. It's just that in BG2, once you travel to Brynnlaw you are stuck in a linear progression until Chapter 6, whereas in Baldur's Gate - at any point in the game can you just stop your progression and go do something else. Half way through Cloakwood? No problem, exit and go do a wilderness area down the bottom and come back.

I think the natural progression through Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 are kinda similar. I pretty much go from Candlekeep to the Friendly Arm, to Beregost (and the Temple Area), to the Nashkell Area and then in Chapter 3 I do every wilderness area available before going to Baldur's Gate. That is very similar to how most people play Baldur's Gate 2.

So I think the specific difference is just that tunnel of content where you are FORCED to go to Brynnlaw to progress the story and you are FORCED through a linear progression until Chapter 6.

---------

It has already been stated that PE will have a branching path of progression (from the PCWorld interview in December) and that is why I think that we will get a more tailored experience than we got in the Baldur's Gates.

Chapter 1 will (almost 100%) be the Dyrford and surrounding areas, at the end of Chapter 1 we get access to the Stronghold. I don't think you will be able to go anywhere but a specific number of areas in Chapter 1.

I think that in Chapter 2, a new "region" will unlock and you will get another set of areas that you will have access to - rather than being able to go to Defiance Bay, Twin Elms and Gilded Vale (and wherever else you can go) during the same part of the story.

Once you've progressed the story further (perhaps by completing a fixed number of crit path associated quests in a region), a new region will unlock.

I'd be interested in how crit-path content is being handled if this is the case. Let's say there are five crit-path quests you have to do in Chapter 2 and you need to do three of them to progress. Does completion of three give you the option of progression, or does immediate completion of three progress the story immediately?

I hope that there will be cross-regional content, such as having to go back to the Dyrford in an optional quest while at a later beat in the story.

 

[KazikluBey]

Heraldry in the Eastern Reach is at least superficially similar to medieval/early modern European heraldry. Divisions of field and devices are largely used in the same way. Our colors do not follow the traditional rules of tincture and or/argent (represented as yellow and white) are not intended to be metals. Aedyran/Dyrwoodan/Vailian heraldry does not use Euro-style furs (other than sable) but does use patterns (e.g. chequy) and counter-charging. The standard vert, azure, gules, etc. are used in addition to uncommon (in Europe) colors and stains like sanguine and bleu celeste (the latter is particularly common in Dyrwoodan heraldry).
Because of their relative simplicity and uniformity, Eastern Reach arms could be reproduced from text or black and white drawings with a high degree of fidelity -- like Euro arms.
Unlike Euro heraldry, Eastern Reach heraldry is attached to the family name. Individual family members use their own distinguishing devices as a badge overlaid on a shield, hung on their armor, or worn on a cloak.
Here is a fun activity for those who like heraldry: create the arms of the following families that are the traditional erls of the Dyrwood (hopefully I didn't mess anything up in translation):
Ethgowr, Erls of Baelreach - Party per fess embattled vert and argent, two estoiles or.
Ungradr, Erls of Coldwater - Chequy bleu celeste and argent, a falcon perched gules.
Gathbin, Erls of Yenwood - Party per fess dancetty gules and bleu celeste, an oak tree eradicated counter-charged.
Manhem, Erls of Helsgate - Party per chevron sable and gules, a dragon rampant sinister counter-charged.

Since this is what made me head over to the Obsidian forums in the first place, I might as well post them here too, in case anyone is interested:

Every element comes from public domain/Creative Commons stuff on Wikipedia, with the exception of the falcon.

Spoiler

Also, decline of heraldic metals.

 

[Sensuki]

I would probably go two stars in the green section of the first one, as it depicts night over a fortified wall. You wouldn't have a star on a Castle Wall IMO.

Edit: Just read your post on fields left blank over at OE forums. Perhaps you are right.

 

[KazikluBey]

Well yes, it is an odd combination of ingredients. I didn't find any example of real shields with 2 charges and a horizontal division.

 

[Brzęczyszczykiewicz]

I replayed BG last year. From one of the speed runs I'm pretty sure you can access the mines without going to Nashkel. You can go to the Carnival Area instead, which also triggers Chapter 2. I'm pretty sure going around (ie through the wilderness areas) would be slower than just going through Nashkell or the Carnival area to get there (in minutes and seconds).

I meant the mines in the woods (can't remember the name of the woods) have to be done /after/ the mines in Nashkel, not that you need to go to Nashkel before doing the Nashkel Mines.

Cloakwood mines. And no, you cannot access them before Nashkel mines.

 

[Sensuki]

PoE is 30 fps? dropped

Just to confirm I asked Josh about this on SA. The animation speed is frame rate independent. So no 60 FPS cap because animations are 30 FPS or whatever.

 

[KazikluBey]

In other news, PoE heraldry follows pretty much no real world rules:

I generally figured that if the charges were all in one field, the description would read something like "party per fess embattled, verte two estoiles or, argent", so it's got to be either like that, or both along the fess itself (though I don't think I've ever seen charges placed like that).

I couldn't find a standard for describing it that way, but the estoiles are both supposed to be in the top/vert field with nothing in the argent field (which is practically unknown in Euro heraldry, I know).

The difference between indented and dancetty is usually size/number of the peaks in the line. Indented typically has a lot more than dancetty.

And yeah in addition to ignoring the general "metal on metal" rules, they also ignore natural color rules for animals, so the falcon is entirely gules (no special colors armed or langed).

My first attempt at the Ethgowr arms was apparently correct, and the falcon is supposed to be entirely red.

 

[Space Satan]

For fuck's sake, nobody cares about chevrons, heraldry and other cosmetic crap, as long as the game is good. They can paint crossed penises on the shields all they want if they will present us a decent gameplay.

 

[Sensuki]

PE has a proper action cancel

If an action is canceled before its hit frame, there's no recovery time, but you do have to start a new action from the beginning.

 

[KazikluBey]

For fuck's sake, nobody cares about chevrons, heraldry and other cosmetic crap, as long as the game is good. They can paint crossed penises on the shields all they want if they will present us a decent gameplay.

Oh, sorry. Here you go.

Spoiler

 

[serch]

What's your favorite Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting? "Like" for Forgotten Realms or "Share" for World of Greyhawk. Let the battle begin. Fight!

 

[Xor]

Dark Sun, followed by Planescape. Ravenloft is also good.

Edit: I didn't even finish reading the quote. Apparently the settings I named, Dragonlance, Ebberon, etc. don't count.

 

[Hormalakh]

i personally think chapters are sort of stupid altogether because that's the bioware way of doing old-school cinematics. it also really screws up the whole flow of the narrative and kind of makes it feel forced. The examples given above are a testament to that fact.

i also like dark sun followed by ps. fuck fr

 

[agris]

I have a question for anyone with a good memory: Can anyone (Infinitron, Duraframe300 etc) remember where this rough quote about Chapter progression came from? Josh said something about "Completing a certain number of quests in an area allows you to progress to the next chapter of the game".

Despite recent examples of my poor attention / memory, this also sounds familiar to me. The only thing I could find is reference to the stronghold being unlocked after completion of the first chapter, here. It's not cited, and not a direct quote, but I think it's pulling from the same source you're trying to find.

 

[Haba]

The more I read this thread, the less enthusiastic I feel about the game.

...

It has nothing to do with the game and its mechanics, and everything to do with the audience I will be associating myself by playing it...

 

[Delterius]

It has nothing to do with the game and its mechanics, and everything to do with the audience I will be associating myself by playing it...

There's nothing to be ashamed of the Codex, Haba-kun~