Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[evdk]

Umm, you know that the SPECIAL system was a copy of the GURPS pnp system, right?

Yeah, but it was their own home made copy.

 

[suejak]

How do you know that cooldowns don't make sense? Have you ever cast a spell?

 

[Infinitron]

All I'm saying is, if you want to make the case that Tim Cain is a titan of "creativity", then Arcanum is probably a better example to hold up than Fallout.

 

[tuluse]

Umm, you know that the SPECIAL system was a copy of the GURPS pnp system, right?

It's not a straight copy though. D100 system instead of 3D6 to start with. The attributes are different, and most of the skill and traits were made for Fallout, not just taking standard GURPS stuff and re-selling it.

 

[Captain Shrek]

All I'm saying is, if you want to make the case that Tim Cain is a titan of creativity, then Arcanum is probably a better example to hold up than Fallout.

Sure. Arcanum had an amazing setting.

 

[suejak]

Umm, you know that the SPECIAL system was a copy of the GURPS pnp system, right?

It's not a straight copy though. D100 system instead of 3D6 to start with. The attributes are different, and most of the skill and traits were made for Fallout, not just taking standard GURPS stuff and re-selling it.

Yeah, thank God we had that Science skill in Fallout 1, huh?

 

[IronicNeurotic]

All I'm saying is, if you want to make the case that Tim Cain is a titan of "creativity", then Arcanum is probably a better example to hold up than Fallout.

And even that still had orcs, dwarfes and elves.

What's creativity anyway? Is it really creative coming up with random shit?

 

[Infinitron]

And Arcanum is just one game. Remember, Tim Cain is a programmer by trade. Maybe he's just out of big ideas.

 

[tuluse]

All I'm saying is, if you want to make the case that Tim Cain is a titan of "creativity", then Arcanum is probably a better example to hold up than Fallout.

I don't see how High Fantasy + steam engines is more creative than Fallout.

I think they're about equal, and both very creative, just pointing out how you can make anything seem bland trying to reduce it to a single sentence.

 

[wormix]

A game being creative doesn't automatically make it great, and a great game need not necessarily be creative.

 

[tuluse]

Umm, you know that the SPECIAL system was a copy of the GURPS pnp system, right?

It's not a straight copy though. D100 system instead of 3D6 to start with. The attributes are different, and most of the skill and traits were made for Fallout, not just taking standard GURPS stuff and re-selling it.

Yeah, thank God we had that Science skill in Fallout 1, huh?

What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying since science was near useless that means Fallout copied more?

 

[IronicNeurotic]

And Arcanum is just one game. Remember, Tim Cain is a programmer by trade. Maybe he's just out of big ideas.

He still has them. He actually talked about a sci-fi rpg in a recent interview.

 

[Captain Shrek]

All I'm saying is, if you want to make the case that Tim Cain is a titan of "creativity", then Arcanum is probably a better example to hold up than Fallout.

And even that still had orcs, dwarfes and elves.

Too true but in a land that had magic vs tech implemented well.

What's creativity anyway? Is it really creative coming up with random shit?

No. Not random, but workable and enjoyable.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Also are you people really surprised this is going to be fantasy. The fucking point is a spiritual successor to the Infinity Games and for Sawyer to the Black Hound.

 

[Infinitron]

And Arcanum is just one game. Remember, Tim Cain is a programmer by trade. Maybe he's just out of big ideas.

He still has them. He actually talked about a sci-fi rpg in a recent interview.

So, next Obsidian Kickstarter will be the Mass Effect to PE's Dragon Age.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

All I'm saying is, if you want to make the case that Tim Cain is a titan of "creativity", then Arcanum is probably a better example to hold up than Fallout.

No. Not random, but workable and enjoyable.

What do you know about Eternity that let's you say it isn't?

 

[Hamster]

Oh, right. Like we need 1C to ruin the game for us specifical--

I pity poor dumbfucks who call themselves rpg fans but never bothered to learn english.

 

[suejak]

Umm, you know that the SPECIAL system was a copy of the GURPS pnp system, right?

It's not a straight copy though. D100 system instead of 3D6 to start with. The attributes are different, and most of the skill and traits were made for Fallout, not just taking standard GURPS stuff and re-selling it.

Yeah, thank God we had that Science skill in Fallout 1, huh?

What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying since science was near useless that means Fallout copied more?

My entire point is that Fallout 1 wasn't very well-designed. It used a copied stat system and an imbalanced skill system that was half-baked and punished the player for not knowing a priori how to build a good character.

 

[Grunker]

To be honest I am bit relieved and a bit disappointed. So I am about to commit some sacrilege and some Blasphemy. When I joined this place I always thought that Cain and Sawyer were really the creative kind, that took dangerous and novel steps to make games. I thought that the only reason they could not make something as great as Fallout again (Cain) because they were not having the resources to do so. Now that they have the money they keep regurgitating the same DnD crap all over.

I'm not sure why Fallout was ever considered all that super-creative. It was a Mad Max RPG, FFS. Plus, Wasteland did it first anyway.

As for Sawyer, he's a game mechanics nerd first and foremost, not an artist or a visionary.

It has it's own home made character system.

The retro-futuristic themes were most definitely not Mad Max inspired.

It also had a bunch of Canticle For Leibowitz inspiration.

I would say it's about as creative as anything I've seen. Maybe your standard for creativity is too high? Just remember nothing is new, and we all stand on the shoulders of giants.

Umm, you know that the SPECIAL system was a copy of the GURPS pnp system, right?

It most certainly was not. It's as much a copy of GURPS as the UNO card game is a copy of Magic: The Gathering, basically.

Stop talking out your ass. It was supposed to use GURPS, but didn't. Using seven stats (among these Charisma and Luck) and using percentile rolls is basically as far from GURPS design as you can possibly be.

 

[Infinitron]

Blah, don't turn this into a Fallout RPG mechanics discussion please

 

[Shadenuat]

And though any wizard may prepare several tomes, an inexperienced caster is not capable of channeling power through the log-thick, anvil-heavy, dog-eared grimoires of wizened archmagi. Such novices must alternate between more modest selections, relying on their less demanding spells and talents when they are unable to call upon their tomes.

Hmmm. Multiple spellbooks?

I pity poor dumbfucks who call themselves rpg fans but never bothered to learn english.

It's still good that from 2000 and beyond every major publisher realised that it's better to sell some copies for 10-20 bucks, than to sell nothing. I enjoy a long line of boxes and cases on my shelf, just like rulebooks for various systems. I still have my Baldur's Gate I on five blank CD's only marked by black pen though

 

[suejak]

It most certainly was not. It's as much a copy of GURPS as the UNO card game is a copy of Magic: The Gathering, basically.

Stop talking out your ass. It was supposed to use GURPS, but didn't. Using seven stats (among these Charisma and Luck) and using percentile rolls is basically as far from GURPS design as you can possibly be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECIAL_System#SPECIAL

I'm awaiting your link that says Magic is based on UNO...

 

[Infinitron]

And though any wizard may prepare several tomes, an inexperienced caster is not capable of channeling power through the log-thick, anvil-heavy, dog-eared grimoires of wizened archmagi. Such novices must alternate between more modest selections, relying on their less demanding spells and talents when they are unable to call upon their tomes.

Hmmm. Multiple spellbooks?

There are your "spell suites"!

 

[wormix]

Couldn't you say that SPECIAL is to GURPS that PE is to D&D?

Point being that if Fallout has unique mechanics even though it was going to use GURPS, criticising PE for being similar to D&D isn't really valid.

 

[DalekFlay]

Cipher is interesting.

Adventurer's Hall probably won't appease the people who want to create an entire party out of the gate, I feel they will still complain. Still, better than nothing right?