Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[IronicNeurotic]

But wasn't one of the first things they said publicly that there will be complex reputation mechanics? That's probably what Feargus is talking about.

Yeah, again talking about Karma/Moral (which is most likely not in), not Faction (which is most likely in). Feargus mentioned both and in response to a question which highlighted the Karma meter.

While Sawyer just yesterday spoke against them (Karma) on formspring again.

False hopes for Karmafaqs. That's what I mean.

 

[Volourn]

FU > JS. He is an owner and CEO. Sawyer is just an employe just like Cain. Avellone (and one or two others)a re also co owners. Sawyer and Cain cna shut up and do their job.. and with this stupid spell system theya re apparantly doing a piss poor job. Thankfully, dwarves being int he game brings some goodness to the game to maintain my interest.

 

[suejak]

I'm really not sure what that system of theirs is supposed to solve. People will get through dungeons spamming spells from replenishable levels, wait for boss and unload dailies on him. People who could't still would run back to town and rest to get dailies back. We mostly did the same in every Vancian game out there. The only difference is that mages won't need to think about managing low level spells now. It's like trying to teach us fools how to spend our resources. Why can't fighters and thieves have their own moments in gameplay, and mages - theirs? Why everyone must perform equally in sense of number of actions per combat? o_O

Maybe you can't get through the dungeon without going through hell, on low-level spells alone? You have absolutely zero clue how this system is going to be balanced or how it will work.

The system seems to try to fix the Vancian problem of resting after every fight, while trying to maintain the need for preparedness and planning.

 

[Shadenuat]

Maybe you can't get through the dungeon without going through hell, on low-level spells alone?

Uh, exactly. Then you'd have to run back to town for three minutes and rest, just what Sawyer seems to hate. Or will every boss have a camping fire near him? Or a town-portal?

 

[tuluse]

I'm really not sure what that system of theirs is supposed to solve. People will get through dungeons spamming spells from replenishable levels, wait for boss and unload dailies on him. People who could't still would run back to town and rest to get dailies back. We mostly did the same in every Vancian game out there. The only difference is that mages won't need to think about managing low level spells now. It's like trying to teach us fools how to spend our resources. Why can't fighters and thieves have their own moments in gameplay, and mages - theirs? Why everyone must perform equally in sense of number of actions per combat? o_O

Maybe you can't get through the dungeon without going through hell, on low-level spells alone? You have absolutely zero clue how this system is going to be balanced or how it will work.

The system seems to try to fix the Vancian problem of resting after every fight, while trying to maintain the need for preparedness and planning.

You didn't need to rest after every fight. That's what faggots did, and there should be a mechanic to discourage it.

 

[suejak]

Nothing is wrong with a reputation system a la Baldur's Gate.

Wasn't that a single global number? I thought that was boring and oversimplified. I much prefer complex systems like those found in Fallout 2, Arcanum, and New Vegas.

 

[suejak]

Maybe you can't get through the dungeon without going through hell, on low-level spells alone?

Uh, exactly. Then you'd have to run back to town for three minutes and rest, just what Sawyer seems to hate. Or will every boss have a camping fire near him? Or a town-portal?

No, you'll have to plan your spells properly. How do you know it'll be three minutes? Long cooldowns will be a sufficient deterrent to overusing spells, imo. And in the situations where you do decide to wait, that's much much better than the lameness of resting all the time.

 

[Jaesun]

I'm really not sure what that system of theirs is supposed to solve.

It stops the tediousness of having to walk back to the previous "safe resting spot".

People will get through dungeons spamming spells from replenishable levels, wait for boss and unload dailies on him. People who could't still would run back to town and rest to get dailies back. We mostly did the same in every Vancian game out there. The only difference is that mages won't need to think about managing low level spells now. It's like trying to teach us fools how to spend our resources. Why can't fighters and thieves have their own moments in gameplay, and mages - theirs? Why everyone must perform equally in sense of number of actions per combat? o_O

But you are not spamming spells. Like the J_C Matt video: Party encounters a fight. Level 5 Mage casts 1 fireball. Then notices the party could really benefit from haste. Casts that. Then one more fireball. That tier level of spells is now locked out. Also the lower level spells are the same way. You don't spam them, you can only pick a few then they are locked out. And then the higher level spells come into play. Cast them now, and then have to wait until that next rest area is found, or save it.

That system is interesting (at least to myself). It certainly is going to need some tweaking, but it could be interesting.

 

[The Round Peg]

Video interview: Josh Sawyer on Project Eternity (20 minutes,in-depth)



URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoRDtNag8rE

 

[Lord Andre]

"Certainly. But I do feel that uber-level wizards should have the ability to be a "walking fireball factory". That's how they are described in the lore, as nigh-invincible masters of the elements.

But when you look at the mechanics of a Vancian system they seem rather mundane."

O RLY? have you seen a high level vancian mage in action? They are anything but mundane and *are* near nigh invincible. FFS A mage doesn't need to be spamming fireballs, hastes, magic missles, and other spells to be that.


This idea of Obsidian's is retarted and those defending it as described are even more retarted.

HOLY SHIT ! I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH VOLOURN'S POST ! THE WORLD IS ENDING...rofles

Also fanboys can't into reality. The combat is officially shit. The good fight is lost. The shame is ours.

 

[Shadenuat]

But you are not spamming spells.

I did't mean that you are spamming them in combat, I meant that a spellcaster who fought orcs at the entrance of the dungeon will retain the same amount of effectiveness when he'll fight boss at the end of a dungeon - unless he blows his daily-spells. Or am I missing something?

 

[villain of the story]

I'm really not sure what that system of theirs is supposed to solve.

It stops the tediousness of having to walk back to the previous "safe resting spot".

People will get through dungeons spamming spells from replenishable levels, wait for boss and unload dailies on him. People who could't still would run back to town and rest to get dailies back. We mostly did the same in every Vancian game out there. The only difference is that mages won't need to think about managing low level spells now. It's like trying to teach us fools how to spend our resources. Why can't fighters and thieves have their own moments in gameplay, and mages - theirs? Why everyone must perform equally in sense of number of actions per combat? o_O

But you are not spamming spells. Like the J_C Matt video: Party encounters a fight. Level 5 Mage casts 1 fireball. Then notices the party could really benefit from haste. Casts that. Then one more fireball. That tier level of spells is now locked out. Also the lower level spells are the same way. You don't spam them, you can only pick a few then they are locked out. And then the higher level spells come into play. Cast them now, and then have to wait until that next rest area is found, or save it.

That system is interesting (at least to myself). It certainly is going to need some tweaking, but it could be interesting.

Duh, as if Obsidian could come up anything that isn't interesting to you, even if they tried hard.

 

[Jaesun]

But you are not spamming spells.

I did't mean that you are spamming them in combat, I meant that a spellcaster who fought orcs at the entrance of the dungeon will retain the same amount of effectiveness when he'll fight boss at the end of a dungeon - unless he blows his daily-spells. Or am I missing something?

Yeah you still have the same non daily spells available, but only the daily ones you still have not used. Which spells will be in either the daily or non daily spell will need some very good balancing obviously. What and how many spells end up in the daily will be interesting.

 

[Lord Andre]

I said Obsidian lied from the start but I got called butthurt. They didn't want to get rid of the publishers to make a good game, they wanted to get rid of the publishers so they could keep all the money from their brand new next-gen rpg.

I've been reading MCA's latest interviews and it seemed like he was pissed and wanted to distance himself from the game. Now I know why.

 

[Infinitron]

unless he blows his daily-spells

And that's the catch. The quality of the system depends entirely on what those "daily spells" are.

It will be a challenge for Josh and co to properly tune this system, deciding which spell goes where. Let's hope they're up to the task.

I said Obsidian lied from the start but I got called butthurt. They didn't want to get rid of the publishers to make a good game, they wanted to get rid of the publishers so they could keep all the money from their brand new next-gen rpg.

I've been reading MCA's latest interviews and it seemed like he was pissed and wanted to distance himself from the game. Now I know why.

You're seeing what you want to see.

Dude, the game is fucking RTwP. It was never going to be super-hardcore. All of the REAL hardcore Codexers (the ones who spit at the mere mention of RTwP) are laughing at your butthurt now.

 

[Lord Andre]

Balancing my ass. To Sawyer, fireball is low level enough that you should spam 3 of them, wait for 30 secs. then spam another 3.

 

[Jaesun]

Balancing my ass. To Sawyer, fireball is low level enough that you should spam 3 of them, wait for 30 secs. then spam another 3.

Except after doing that, that tier of spells are locked out.

 

[Lord Andre]

unless he blows his daily-spells

And that's the catch. The quality of the system depends entirely on what those "daily spells" are.

It will be a challenge for Josh and co to properly tune this system, deciding which spell goes where. Let's hope they're up to the task.

I said Obsidian lied from the start but I got called butthurt. They didn't want to get rid of the publishers to make a good game, they wanted to get rid of the publishers so they could keep all the money from their brand new next-gen rpg.

I've been reading MCA's latest interviews and it seemed like he was pissed and wanted to distance himself from the game. Now I know why.

You're seeing what you want to see.

Dude, the game is fucking RTwP. It was never going to be super-hardcore. All of the REAL hardcore Codexers (the ones who spit at the mere mention of RTwP) are laughing at your butthurt now.

Of course the infinity games were not hardcore. But Obsidian wants to dumb them down even more. You keep talking about balancing but I saw Sawyers analogy that you tagged me with. Read my above post. This talk of balancing is a joke.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh man...

 

[Lord Andre]

Yeah, yeah it's a deadhorse but you tagged me 3 times in this thread. Carry on then, I have nothing more to add.

 

[Volourn]

"Except after doing that, that tier of spells are locked out."

For 30 seconds. You shouldn't be able to cast 3 fireballs wait 30 seconds and thenc ast 3 more fireballs. It's fukkin' retarted if you want people to think about long term use of spells ala DnD.

Cooldowns worked much better in DA because the combat itself was designed to have every encounter be a challenge inofitself since you got fully healed at end of battle anyways. Not my ideal system (I much prefer DnD); but it worked.

Obsidian is promising everything and all it is gonna be needlessly complicated mess that comes out retarted unless they nerf all the spells.

Take a gander at low level DnD spells - even level 1 ones. Those are some awesome spells there that are useful to high level wizards yet we are gonna be able to literally spam them non stop? Fukkin' LAME.

 

[Infinitron]

Volourn

The low-level spells in Project Eternity obviously WON'T be so useful and powerful. Presumably, in exchange, low-level beginner wizards will have access to the more powerful high-level spells at an earlier stage. But only as daily spells of course.

This will not be D&D. It's not nerfing, it's merely rearranging.

 

[Monad]

The problem with you morons is that you can't stop thinking in terms of D+D. This isn't D+D.

 

[Jaesun]

"Except after doing that, that tier of spells are locked out."

For 30 seconds. You shouldn't be able to cast 3 fireballs wait 30 seconds and thenc ast 3 more fireballs. It's fukkin' retarted if you want people to think about long term use of spells ala DnD.

No. When you cast those 3 fireballs, that spell tier is now locked out and you cannot cast any more of them at all in combat.

Basically combat is:

1 - Low level spells - Can cast X number of low level spells, once used up they are locked out, BUT will be available again after a cooldown. We have no idea if it's 1 minute, 30 seconds or 5 minutes.

2. Mid level spells - Can cast X number of spells, once cast they lock and you cannot cast any more of them at all in the current combat.

3. - Daily spelll - Can only be cast 1 time. Once cast must be regained at next resting spot.

WHAT spells fall in each of those categories will be important. IIRC this is what Tim and Josh are saying.

 

[Volourn]

Exactly. So they were bullshitting when they claimed that low level spells would still be useful later on. Sorry, but a 1d4 damage fire spell that is useful at level 1 is gonna be garbage at level 10. FFS

Call it what you will, but as descriobed this half baked system is just that - baked. They should either go all in with a cooldown system and balance it for it or go all the way with avancian/rest/mana system. Not his kind of bullshitz of trying to mix all of them in one laughable fell swoop.

I still get why people (Sawyer) cry because a wizard might - you know - have to use an actual fukkin' weapon once and awhile to shoot down lame ass kobolds. FFS the best part of a mage is deciding when to use your spells - not just spamming them like a fukkin' warrior does his attacks. In exchange, you have lots of different spell choices.

Fuck that bullshit. As annoying a sit is though the trolls defending this crap just makes it stupider.