Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Jaesun]

Here's some gas masks guys, the stench of butthurt might get a bit overwhelming in here.

 

[Lord Andre]

Since I'm at it, I'd like to state that it would please my dark heart, if you fagots stopped singing glorious praise to Josh Sawyer's anus and admit that Obsidian is not the unspoiled virgin of the gaming industry.

I LOVE JOSH SAWYER THIS MUCH!

I love him too but I will call his bullshit when I see it. When he starts walking on water I'll trust him unconditionally. Until then...

 

[Grimlorn]

HATE! HATE! HATE!

 

[Cynic]

What the fuck do you care about then ? Assuming this is still the codex and not larper central.

I care about getting a PC-exclusive, top-down, party-based, non-hack n' slash fantasy RPG that isn't severely dumbed down. And I care about getting the closest thing to The Black Hound that will ever exist.

It's not rocket science.

Personally I feel that a move away from the Vancian system into one embracing cool downs is a fundamental movement towards dumbing down the combat and therefore a huge part of the game play. The game may still be good despite this, but only as good as something like Dragon Age compared to Baldur's Gate.

I also think the setting of the game that has been shown so far is pretty dumbed down. I hope I will be proven wrong.

I've generally been pretty turned off by the rampant fanboyism ITT, so deep in its penetration that reality has distended and Volourn is now the voice of reason. But I understand that starvation can cause people to do crazy shit.

Fingers crossed Obsidian succeeds in delivering the greatest form of RTwP combat ever.

 

[Infinitron]

The game may still be good despite this, but only as good as something like Dragon Age compared to Baldur's Gate.

Well, I for one don't consider DA:O to be an abomination, but I am convinced that Project Eternity will not be that far down the scale. Not fanboyism, just a careful consideration of the known facts.

 

[suejak]

How do you "dumb down" a setting?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Personally I feel that a move away from the Vancian system into one embracing cool downs is a fundamental movement towards dumbing down the combat and therefore a huge part of the game play.

There are no inherently superior mechanics that improve a game simply by being present, everything depends on implementation. Until we know more about how it'll work, it's mostly about making guesses and / or having a kneejerk reaction to the term "cooldown".

 

[Lord Andre]

Personally I feel that a move away from the Vancian system into one embracing cool downs is a fundamental movement towards dumbing down the combat and therefore a huge part of the game play.

There are no inherently superior mechanics that improve a game simply by being present, everything depends on implementation. Until we know more about how it'll work, it's mostly about making guesses and / or having a kneejerk reaction to the term "cooldown".

So RTwP is just as good as turn-based, it all depends on implementation. At least we solved that dilemma.

 

[Infinitron]

So RTwP is just as good as turn-based, it all depends on implementation. At least we solved that dilemma.

That's actually not as ridiculous a statement as you may think. Many people here agree with it, to various degrees.

See here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...t-eternity-how-does-it-work-tb-vs-rtwp.76280/

 

[Hobz]

Yeah sure, because mentioning the possibility of using cooldowns in conjunction with other systems very early in developpement process is CLEARLY dumbing down to retard level.

Even if it was universal truth that cooldowns are bad in and on themselves, which is not the case, you need to know for certain that they will stick to the system even if it turns out awfull to be so buthurt, which again, is not the case.

Tl:dr : Lord Andre is an idiot.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

So RTwP is just as good as turn-based, it all depends on implementation. At least we solved that dilemma.

Er, yeah? If a turn-based game has banalshitboring combat, it'll have shitty combat, and no amount of "b-but it's turn-based!" will save it. Not sure what's so crazy about it. My guess is that you're trying to look "codexian" by saying even shitty turn-based combat is better than good RtwP.

 

[Hobz]

Personally I feel that a move away from the Vancian system into one embracing cool downs is a fundamental movement towards dumbing down the combat and therefore a huge part of the game play.

There are no inherently superior mechanics that improve a game simply by being present, everything depends on implementation. Until we know more about how it'll work, it's mostly about making guesses and / or having a kneejerk reaction to the term "cooldown".

 

[Lord Andre]

Er, yeah? If a turn-based game has banalshitboring combat, it'll have shitty combat, and no amount of "b-but it's turn-based!" will save it. Not sure what's so crazy about it.

I was not being sarcastic.
Anyway, I think the point is clear now. Some of us are pessimists and some of us are optimists and of course all of us think we are realists. So yeah, we'll argue some more when more information comes out.
Oh, and to hobz, my prestigious retort: "NO, U!!!"

 

[Hobz]

The game may still be good despite this, but only as good as something like Dragon Age compared to Baldur's Gate.

Well, I for one don't consider DA:O to be an abomination, but I am convinced that Project Eternity will not be that far down the scale. Not fanboyism, just a careful consideration of the known facts.

Well you have to admit the threat mechanism in DA was pretty shitty. Mostly because it removed the need to protect casters through tactical placement and map control.

 

[Hobz]

Oh, and to hobz, my prestigious retort: "NO, U!!!"

Well, I have to admit I didn't saw it coming. You won this time.

 

[Grimlorn]

I was just over at Obsidian and noticed they got new mods. I noticed one of them is a romancetard that hates turn based combat and thinks it's too unrealistic compared to RTwP. They were arguing with me about turn based combat the other day. But they're also a woman. So why is it you always see these retarded women get these moderator positions? Is it because they are women or is it just because they're stupid and want to boss people around? So they'll give the position to anyone?

 

[Jaesun]

Er, yeah? If a turn-based game has banalshitboring combat, it'll have shitty combat, and no amount of "b-but it's turn-based!" will save it. Not sure what's so crazy about it.

I was not being sarcastic.
Anyway, I think the point is clear now. Some of us are pessimists and some of us are optimists and of course all of us think we are realists. So yeah, we'll argue some more when more information comes out.
Oh, and to hobz, my prestigious retort: "NO, U!!!"

You entire argument is that you support the game except over the kneejerk reaction to cooldowns, which is SPECIFICALLY a combat mechanic, when again and again the TOP 3 codex games of all time have ALL have shit combat.

I get the pessimism but there are 3 things Obsidian does well: Story, Characters and roleplaying mechanics. THAT they do well.

Would I rather have PE with ToEE combat? Oh fuck yes! I'd probably keel over and die. But that is not feasible in this project (as in 100% focus on combat, the way Chaos Chronicles is). They are pitching a IE like combat RTwP. Sawyers proposed mechanics sound interesting, and could be potentially interesting to a IE like game. Could it also just turn out fucking terrible? Yes. That is possible too. But for me, I'm still putting my money on Obsidian. I feel they can pull this off, for the most part.

 

[Lord Andre]

Er, yeah? If a turn-based game has banalshitboring combat, it'll have shitty combat, and no amount of "b-but it's turn-based!" will save it. Not sure what's so crazy about it.

I was not being sarcastic.
Anyway, I think the point is clear now. Some of us are pessimists and some of us are optimists and of course all of us think we are realists. So yeah, we'll argue some more when more information comes out.
Oh, and to hobz, my prestigious retort: "NO, U!!!"

You entire argument is that you support the game except over the kneejerk reaction to cooldowns, which is SPECIFICALLY a combat mechanic, when again and again the TOP 3 codex games of all time have ALL have shit combat.

I get the pessimism but there are 3 things Obsidian does well: Story, Characters and roleplaying mechanics. THAT they do well.

Would I rather have PE with ToEE combat? Oh fuck yes! I'd probably keel over and die. But that is not feasible in this project (as in 100% focus on combat, the way Chaos Chronicles is). They are pitching a IE like combat RTwP. Sawyers proposed mechanics sound interesting, and could be potentially interesting to a IE like game. Could it also just turn out fucking terrible? Yes. That is possible too. But for me, I'm still putting my money on Obsidian. I feel they can pull this off, for the most part.

Ok, see - now you're making sense. I pretty much agree with what you're saying here. If I am butthurt, it is because I dream of an rpg with good writting and good combat. One day perhaps...

 

[Cynic]

Agree with Jaesun and Lord Andre. Fingers crossed that Chaos Chronicles + PE fulfill the dreams of both combatfags and storyfags alike...

 

[Jaesun]

Ok, see - now you're making sense. I pretty much agree with what you're saying here. If I am butthurt, it is because I dream of an rpg with good writting and good combat. One day perhaps...

We ALL want that BRO. That is the entire REASON the codex was started in 2003. We want Story, Characters, exceptional roleplaing mechaincs AND exceptional combat.

It is 2012 and we are still waiting.... But when we can get 3 out of the 4, it's a good day.

EDIT: AND exclusively (or at least designed only for) the PC.

 

[Cynic]

This COULD have been THE ONE that is WHY it is so enraging.

 

[suejak]

Ok, see - now you're making sense. I pretty much agree with what you're saying here. If I am butthurt, it is because I dream of an rpg with good writting and good combat. One day perhaps...

We ALL want that BRO. That is the entire REASON the codex was started in 2003. We want Story, Characters, exceptional roleplaing mechaincs AND exceptional combat.

It is 2012 and we are still waiting.... But when we can get 3 out of the 4, it's a good day.

I dunno, given that people run around on this site decrying genuine roleplaying as "LARPing," I would say most of them haven't got any clue what this site was originally about.

 

[Executer]

Ok, see - now you're making sense. I pretty much agree with what you're saying here. If I am butthurt, it is because I dream of an rpg with good writting and good combat. One day perhaps...

We ALL want that BRO. That is the entire REASON the codex was started in 2003. We want Story, Characters, exceptional roleplaing mechaincs AND exceptional combat.

It is 2012 and we are still waiting.... But when we can get 3 out of the 4, it's a good day.

I dunno, given that people run around on this site decrying genuine roleplaying as "LARPing," I would say most of them haven't got any clue what this site was originally about.

Really? The things I tend to see put down regularly are Bioware style romances (pandering), requests for huge wardrobe/character appearance modifications and to a lesser extent lifeless, empty sandbox criticisms of Bethesda (which encourage LARPing apparently, bit of a chicken and egg argument really).

 

[Gurkog]

If anyone can make a kick ass game it will be Sawyer. He really likes to sweat the details over the value of weapons and spells. I doubt there will be many worthless piece of shit gear or spell options like in the old IE games.

2014 is too damn long to wait....

 

[suejak]

Ok, see - now you're making sense. I pretty much agree with what you're saying here. If I am butthurt, it is because I dream of an rpg with good writting and good combat. One day perhaps...

We ALL want that BRO. That is the entire REASON the codex was started in 2003. We want Story, Characters, exceptional roleplaing mechaincs AND exceptional combat.

It is 2012 and we are still waiting.... But when we can get 3 out of the 4, it's a good day.

I dunno, given that people run around on this site decrying genuine roleplaying as "LARPing," I would say most of them haven't got any clue what this site was originally about.

Really? The things I tend to see put down regularly are Bioware style romances (pandering), requests for huge wardrobe/character appearance modifications and to a lesser extent lifeless, empty sandbox criticisms of Bethesda (which encourage LARPing apparently, bit of a chicken and egg argument really).

Do a quick search of the forums for "LARP" and try to figure out what it means. It's often used completely nebulously, but it's turned against genuine roleplaying as well.

I'm not the first to get annoyed with how the word is used, but here is a good summary of how it's used against roleplaying:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ott-on-rpgs-vs-rpgs.70049/page-4#post-1994656

The term LARPing does make sense in the context of a CRPG, but it is used as an analogy, not literally.

To use Jarlfrank's classic explanation of of CRPG LARPing:

... playing Oblivion and pretending to be a noble and dressing up in fancy clothes and only traveling on horseback and only using silver weapons because that's what nobles do, even though it makes no sense gameplay-wise at all.

Sure, you could just call someone who did that a roleplayer, but it would not be sufficiently pejorative.

Calling them a LARPer works better because LARPers are a type of roleplayer that even P&P roleplayers look down on.

Whatever that means. Basically, there's this rising mentality that CRPGs are purely about gaining levels and killing monsters as efficiently as possible (powerleveling) because that's "the gameplay". If you give consideration to other things in your experience roleplaying your character through the game -- oh god, sorry -- in the course of gameplay (e.g., you want your ranger using ranger weapons, or any other kind of "pretending"), then it's LARPing and you suck.

The original Codex was not a powergaming site. It was a CRPG fan site. Part of the fun was, well, roleplaying. Yeah, you want tactical combat, a responsive world and shit. But you wanted it to respond to your character the way you wanted to make him, which is why we like dialogue with dialogue choices and not cutscenes. Because it's roleplaying. Just don't be a fag about it.