Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Volourn]

Oh, pleaee. RPGs have been giving xp for combat and non combat stuff as well as for quests and it has never hurt them. This is plain lazy design that never works as attentioned. If it can work for awesome games like FO it can work for PE.

Don't be like those douches on the Obsidian forums who I skooled (though at your argument is better than theirs). L0L

I thought PE was an old skool game like IWD, BG, and PST - all of which rewarded xp for combat and not one of them as hurt by it.

If people wnated to go into the undercity in PSt to spam random monsters for extra xp let them. It didn't hurt me. I want a game developer not a babysitter. My $165 is for a game not a babysitter.


"The Idea being that all skills are rewarded upon reaching an objective and not, 'get xp for ever lock picked, trap disarmed, NPC seduced socialized, but no xp for each time the combat skill is used.' Your whole argument revolves around combat not being rewarded for its explicit use when, in fact, NO skills are being rewarded upon use. The objective is all that matters."

That's where I disagree. The process matters more. I believe you should get more xp if you talk down the guy in FO1 who takes the hostage and not just kill him. I think you should get more xp for killing the master than trying to reason with that retart.

The process matter just as much as the end.

Plus, sometimes, certain encounters aren't actually quests. How do you deal with that? How aboutt hose gonns you meet after leaving Nashkel mines? Not part of a quest but you should get rewarded for beating them.

 

[Raygun_elf]

"They could reward XP for dungeon areas that are cleared of opponents even if the areas are not related to any quests. How the player goes about removing the hostile beasties is inconsequential as long as the game awards achievement. They can simply add that in for every area full of hostile shit, if they wanted."

That silly. That be like if BIO had done it that way in BG1 and it made you slaughter every single last xfart on the map. That's ridiculous. I want to be award for all encounters I take aprt in without feeling like I need to 'sweep' a map.


"I kill and that be the main way to level up."

Whose claiming that this is what they want? I surely ain't.

DnD99% of pnp games and most CRPGs have done this right. You get xp for quest completion and combat. The better crpgs also reward you for using skills outside fo combat (either in dialogue or otherwise), removing trasp, picking locks, etc.,e tc. That's the way it should be.

The Idea being that all skills are rewarded upon reaching an objective and not, 'get xp for ever lock picked, trap disarmed, NPC seduced socialized, but no xp for each time the combat skill is used.' Your whole argument revolves around combat not being rewarded for its explicit use when, in fact, NO skills are being rewarded upon use. The objective is all that matters.

EDIT: I should stop feeding the trolls

But there's also an argument for realism. If your character spends days and weeks fighting monsters using the same type of weapon, of course he is going to get more proficient with that weapon, how do you really explain that away without creating a gigantic hole in the logic of the game's world? In addition, experience that only accumulates when you finish a quest/'objective' could make the player like he is being forced to play the game in a particular way in order to progress his character/s.

 

[Arkeus]

But there's also an argument for realism. If your character spends days and weeks fighting monsters using the same type of weapon, of course he is going to get more proficient with that weapon, how do you really explain that away without creating a gigantic hole in the logic of the game's world? In addition, experience that only accumulates when you finish a quest/'objective' could make the player like he is being forced to play the game in a particular way in order to progress his character/s.

First, it's not true that "of course he would get better". Once the guy gets good enough to reliably do it, he could very well stagnate, or even get "bad habits" as he would only get one kind of opponent.
Second, there could very well be objectives based on killing a large number of a type of opponent- in fact, those kinda of objectives are pretty damn common.

 

[Grimlorn]

But there's also an argument for realism. If your character spends days and weeks fighting monsters using the same type of weapon, of course he is going to get more proficient with that weapon, how do you really explain that away without creating a gigantic hole in the logic of the game's world? In addition, experience that only accumulates when you finish a quest/'objective' could make the player like he is being forced to play the game in a particular way in order to progress his character/s.

Arguing for realism with the leveling systems is a joke. In all of those games you can build your character any way you want when you level up. You can use dialogue to complete quests and level up and put all your skill points/stat changes/feats into combat abilities/stats and vice versa. You'd have to create a system that would ultimately limit the player in favor of realism and I'm kind of doubting most people would find that fun. There's just little realism in that aspect. That's why it doesn't matter to me if you don't get xp for killing trash mobs.

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

That second city is as good as ours...

fucking hell, this game looks like it will be either a massive or a flat out scheme by Feargus who will disappear to Costa Rica with all our JewGold in less than 24 hours.

 

[PlanHex]

Also, when's the last time you pooped? Maybe you need to poop.

I pooped yesterday, thanks for asking.

Have you reconsidered backing yet?

 

[Gurkog]

Oh, pleaee. RPGs have been giving xp for combat and non combat stuff as well as for quests and it has never hurt them. This is plain lazy design that never works as attentioned. If it can work for awesome games like FO it can work for PE.

Don't be like those douches on the Obsidian forums who I skooled (though at your argument is better than theirs). L0L

I thought PE was an old skool game like IWD, BG, and PST - all of which rewarded xp for combat and not one of them as hurt by it.

If people wnated to go into the undercity in PSt to spam random monsters for extra xp let them. It didn't hurt me. I want a game developer not a babysitter. My $165 is for a game not a babysitter.


"The Idea being that all skills are rewarded upon reaching an objective and not, 'get xp for ever lock picked, trap disarmed, NPC seduced socialized, but no xp for each time the combat skill is used.' Your whole argument revolves around combat not being rewarded for its explicit use when, in fact, NO skills are being rewarded upon use. The objective is all that matters."

That's where I disagree. The process matters more. I believe you should get more xp if you talk down the guy in FO1 who takes the hostage and not just kill him. I think you should get more xp for killing the master than trying to reason with that retart.

The process matter just as much as the end.

Plus, sometimes, certain encounters aren't actually quests. How do you deal with that? How aboutt hose gonns you meet after leaving Nashkel mines? Not part of a quest but you should get rewarded for beating them.

OE is the game's babysitter Game Master though. So they dictate the rules and don't be a butthurt baby just because they wan't to reward objectives instead of every time a skill is used. As long as they remain consistent with providing situations for each skill set to shine the game will be balanced.

EDIT: Who says they can't give extra XP based on completing sub-goals to an objective. If the goal is to peacefully subdue a terrorist, you should not get as much XP for stuffing a grenade in his mouth and kicking him out the door. Using skills to incapacitate him will not pacify as effectively as talking the person down and convincing them of the error in their line of action. It is all situational though and like I said, all skill sets should have their moments of glory.

 

[Arkeus]

3.5 is Done!
Those who said it would be done during their game are correct!

 

[Pegultagol]

3.5 million combined KS + PAYPAL way to go all Codex supporters!

 

[J_C]

KS funds + Paypal=~3.5 million BIG CITY #2 IS IN!

PayPal Update: $106,663 - 2,230 backers

 

[Mrowak]

KS funds + Paypal=~3.5 million BIG CITY #2 IS IN!

PayPal Update: $106,663 - 2,230 backers

They are fucked. Mwahahaha!!

Edit: Or rather, we are.

 

[Arkeus]

So, huh, what will be Villain of the story new troll?

 

[logrus]

The thought behind the idea of not awarding XP for killing monsters is nice and definitely an , but I would not agree that chosen way is the best one. I’m looking forward to see balanced XP gained by directly slaying dragon in a battle, poisoning it by bringing dragon’s favourite meal stuffed with poison crafted by your alchemist companion or getting rid of him by diplomacy-based solution. But I don’t see a point in normal landscape/dungeon monsters not giving XP at all. If the game is XP-based, I’m really used to getting at least some XP for combat


There are different ways of preventing grinding monster killing. Lower level monsters giving less and less XP as your party advances (AFAIR this solution was present in IWD2 and it worked well). Tracking number of defeated creatures and decreasing XP gained by killing each next creature of such type is also a valid option. I’d say that I prefer the second solution (or even combination of both), since it’s more realistic that while you encounter skeleton mage for the first time you learn a lot about the new type of enemy (so high XP reward has a meaning!), but you learn nothing about the abilities, strength and weaknesses of goblins after you have encounters hundred of them (so 0XP or symbolic 1XP is OK). Such approach reduces the sense of grinding and encourages player to explore the world (=> looking for new challenges). Some rare, powerful enemies (think dragons, arch-liches, named hostile faction leaders, etc.) could be excluded from this rule, always giving XP.

66K kickstarter backers + 2,2 Paypalers = 68,2K = 11 levels. And it's realistic to reach 70k in total, so 12 levels. Pure AWESOMENESS
2nd big city

So, maybe some 3.6 or 3.7 stretch goal for the finish run? I'd welcome "additional faction" or "guilds"

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

They're gonna add new goals guys...check this shit out:

 

[FeelTheRads]

Tranny manor confirmed!

 

[General Maxson]

Now, they should add another interesting, but reachable stretch goal, before the finish itself.

 

[Zero Credibility]

There are different ways of preventing grinding monster killing. Lower level monsters giving less and less XP as your party advances (AFAIR this solution was present in IWD2 and it worked well).

Not my experience. For me that system was why I abandoned my attempt at playing the game. It got kind of ridiculous when halfway or so through the game I killed two (!) dragons at the same time and got a grand total of 200 xp for them. The system was over-balanced so that you can never be a level or two over what the game thought would be an appropriate character level at that point. Couple that with the way the number of enemies scaled with the character level and you get the situation where my half-party (I like playing with smaller number of characters) is always a level or two over what the game thinks I would have to be, I always run into huge mobs balanced for the full 6-member party of my level that take a huge effort to defeat, and I always get next to nothing experience from it. It fucking sucked. The first time I run into a troll (or 10 of them to be more precise) and I get 20 xp points for killing it - WTF?

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

at 4 million they will add an actual plot to the game!

 

[Jarpie]

Dlux in Obsidian forums:

XP only for completing objectives - and regernerating health?!

Well, Project Eternity is now turning into an action RPG. lol Might as well name it "Call of Eternity", it already has guns! haha

Yup, old school RPGs are truly dead, you heard it from Obsidian - the guys that wanted to revive the genre. ^^

It's kind of funny watching the devs play D&D, I think a round of "Call of Duty" would have been more appropriate.

I'm outta here!

Good riddance, probably going back to BSN.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Good riddance, probably going back to BSN.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Jarpie]

Good riddance, probably going back to BSN.

That doesn't make any sense.

Dlux is apparently taking his pledge away and leaving Obsidian forums...he is Biodrone.

Edit: and where they go? Always back to BSN.

 

[Excidium]

Well, it's the kind of people funding Project Eternity, no surprise.

 

[FeelTheRads]

So, not liking what Obsidian is doing (and being against health regen) makes you Biodrone? Interesting.

 

[Volrath]

Stamina != Health no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Stamina != Health no matter how you try to spin it.

As they described it it's exactly health, no matter how you try to spin it.