Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Alex]

"ok at it from a gameplay perspective. You have a quest to "retrieve" a certain item from a misbehaving merchant. There are several approaches you could take: you might intimidate him, you might beat him up, or you might steal the item. Each one of these approaches befit a certain kind of character, and reward you for your playstyle. You get the satisfaction of appropriately roleplaying your character. The game rewards your character build and the choices you made."

Your way treats every character the same. That's pathetic. Chaarcetrs should not be equal.

I said the exact same thing today (well, maybe without being unpolite about it). It is really bizarre finding myself agreeing with the gist of Volo's posts at every other turn lately, as I usually disagree with him on most things.

 

[Volourn]

"Quest or objective based XP takes away grinding from the game. You can still get XP for killing that dragon if Obsidian puts in a quest/objective "Kill Firkraag". But for C&C and multiple-approaches crowd, it's better to instead have a quest "Get rid of Firkraag" and then implement several ways how the player can achieve this goal, one of which is to kill him. Additionally, Obsidian doesn't have to worry about assigning XP to each and every monster in game. The classic Fallout exploit of filling a quest in multiple ways to gain double or even triple XP is also plugged"

If a fukkin' designer doesn't want players grinding then don't put grinding type encounter sin the fukkin' game.

MY god, Codex prefer dumbed down games like ME2 than gliorious FO1. Guess which game reward xp for combat and which one reward it for mission completion only? LMFAO

XP gains from combat 9and other sources) is as old skool as they fukkin' come.

RPG Codex For Newbs. FFS

 

[Excidium]

What a dumbfuck FFS

 

[Jaesun]

SO a system that is more like an actual PnP session is bad, and dumbing down?

 

[Gurkog]

PE passed DFA, woohoo!

how much more until the Second City?

I think, about 50k left to go.


Watch. A bunch of 1000+ backers will pull their pledges 1 minute before the kickstarter ends, thus knocking the total below 3.5m. That would be an epic troll!

 

[HanoverF]

Need to encounter the codex adventure party on level 11 hitting the statue's posterior and leg.

 

[Alex]

SO a system that is more like an actual PnP session is bad, and dumbing down?

Uh? PnP games have rewards for combat.

 

[Excidium]

Some do. Some don't.

 

[Gurkog]

Need to encounter the codex adventure party on level 11 hitting the statue's posterior and leg.

I thought the codex party would be all over his giant cock.

 

[Alex]

Some do. Some don't.

My point still stands.

Edit: er question.

 

[Grimlorn]

You have to pull the Sword of Jaesun out of the statue's ass.

 

[Mastermind]

You have to pull Jaesun out of the statue's ass.

Fixed.

 

[Volourn]

"O a system that is more like an actual PnP session is bad, and dumbing down?"

What the fuck you play? Every Pnp game I played gave xp for avriousn things - combat, non combat, skills, quests, and most importantly role-playing.

You admit you prefer new skool games like ME2 than old skool games like FO or pnp.

FFS You a BIoweenie at heart.

 

[Jaesun]

SO a system that is more like an actual PnP session is bad, and dumbing down?

Uh? PnP games have rewards for combat.

Here Alex are the actual quotes posted from Sawyer:

Tim and I would rather not give XP for general killin' because it leads to a lot of weird/degenerate scenarios, but I have no problem with having quests oriented specifically around killing and receiving XP for achieving sub-objectives/the main goal.

Gameplay degeneration occurs when a player engages in gameplay not because they enjoy that gameplay but because the game's mechanics put the player at a disadvantage for not taking advantage of it. Rest spamming is one example. Wholesale slaughter/genocide is another. Quests that involve a peaceful option to resolve that get turned around after completion when the player murders the saved parties is a familiar expression of this sort of degeneration. If XP is linked to quests and objectives within quests, the player has much more freedom to resolve those quests in whatever way he or she wants, whether that means talking through it, fighting, sneaking around, or using some mixture of skills/scripted environment objects to reach the goal.

There's nothing wrong with defeating Firkraag being a quest or objective all in itself. That's what I meant before. There's nothing wrong with explicitly associating XP with defeating specific enemies or specific groups of monsters as part of a quest where it makes sense. If the quest is "clear the slums" and you're supposed to get rid of the kobolds, the goblins, and the orcs, you might be able to sneak/talk your way through that, but you're probably going to "get rid" of them with some magic missiles and axes to the face.

I've just observed too much post-quest Black Ops slaughter to believe that players are going to behave differently when they can squeeze 1xp out of a peasant's head.


What are your thoughts on that?

 

[jewboy]

How about XP for not killing Firkraag because you like dragons and Firkraag was such a cool monster? Who cares how other players behave? The world is populated by mostly morons. That doesn't mean you have to design your game around them. The argument that XP for monsters is bad because it somehow forces players to behave like idiots doesn't seem particularly persuasive to me. Arguing that the extra XP from wholesale slaughter makes the game more difficult to balance because some players will end up with more XP and will level sooner is a much better argument. And vollie is right about XP for monsters being more like PnP.

 

[Excidium]

Man, if the experience system:

- Rewards you for your efforts
- Lets you develop your character
- Is not a horrible pain in the ass to keep track of

Then I don't give a fuck about the implementation, it works. You people are really overthinking this shit.

vollie is right about XP for monsters being more like PnP.

No, he's not. Don't even continue this because everyone involved is completely wrong

 

[jewboy]

No, he's not. Don't even continue this because everyone involved is completely wrong

Citation needed.

 

[tuluse]

How about XP for not killing Firkraag because you like dragons and Firkraag was such a cool monster? Who cares how other players behave? The world is populated by mostly morons. That doesn't mean you have to design your game around them. The argument that XP for monsters is bad because it somehow forces players to behave like idiots doesn't seem particularly persuasive to me. Arguing that the extra XP from wholesale slaughter makes the game more difficult to balance because some players will end up with more XP and will level sooner is a much better argument. And vollie is right about XP for monsters being more like PnP.

It's bad because it's a mechanic that encourages people to play as bloodthirsty psychopaths, and I don't care about matching PnP at all. If I wanted to play PnP I would.

 

[jewboy]

It doesn't encourage people to act like that. It encourages idiots to act like that and basing your game design on idiots is bad design pretty much by definition.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Looks like they are only about 20K away from a 2nd big city. To be honest I had hoped they would not make it. Seems like a lot of work for the team.

edit: er 60K

 

[Jaesun]

Looks like they are only about 20K away from a 2nd big city. To be honest I had hoped they would not make it. Seems like a lot of work for the team.

If you watch the J_C Matt Chat video, Sawyer explains all the milestones.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Is there a new or the one from before. Does J_C finally get a haircut?

 

[Excidium]

No, he's not. Don't even continue this because everyone involved is completely wrong

Citation needed.

Kill-based experience gain isn't any more characteristic of pnp than goal-based experience gain...There's no ABSOLUTE METHOD OF HANDING EXPERIENCE. Different games handle it differently.

Next you people are going to argue over die sizes, holy shit

 

[Jaesun]

No, he's not. Don't even continue this because everyone involved is completely wrong

Citation needed.

Kill-based experience gain isn't any more characteristic of pnp than goal-based experience gain...There's no ABSOLUTE METHOD OF HANDING EXPERIENCE. Different games handle it differently.

Next you people are going to argue over die sizes, holy shit

You are arguing with a 2012 retard/troll BRO. Just pointing that out.

 

[Arkadin]

They (I think Chris) just mentioned Age of Decadence and told everyone to check it out!