Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Jasede]

What I am trying to say is that when, within the confines of this system, Obsidian breaks it it works at its best. It's a pattern to the company. Whenever they break something it leads to something good. When they broke Star Wars, it led to Kotor 2 and Kreia. When they broke D&D and its boredom it led to MotB and PS:T. And when they broke their own dialogue system it led to moments like the [?] result during the NWN 2 trial or the influence checks I just described. Take my statement in context. I feel they shine the best when they break things.

 

[Volourn]

"The best RPGs are the non-dungeon crawlers, where instead of hacking thousands of monsters to death in boring tunnels, you use skill rolls, conversation choices and story progression to play the game. Fallout and Planescape Torment are RPGs in my view. The Wizardry series aren't. Fortunately, the Obsidian developers have worked on good RPGs before (discounting IWD, which I think was Diablo with prettier landscapes). They know what to d"

This guy is a FAKE RPGer. He does not know what a RPG is. What a piece of shit.

 

[Captain Shrek]

This guy is a FAKE RPGer. He does not know what a RPG is. What a piece of shit.

Volourn, my love, tell me what is an RPG in your sweet sweet text.

 

[evdk]

Actually NO! The entire idea of the Skill name appear in front of an option is makes your argument moot. This way you always know what is being checked without EVEN READING THE TEXT.

That is poor mechanics.

He said it was the best part of MotB dialogue checks not the best implementation ever, Shrek. And it was because as far as I know MotB had no hidden checks.

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

Sylvius the mad is a well known biodrone, pay no attention to his mad ravings...

and Merin is a fucking tool.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Actually NO! The entire idea of the Skill name appear in front of an option is makes your argument moot. This way you always know what is being checked without EVEN READING THE TEXT.

That is poor mechanics.

He said it was the best part of MotB dialogue checks not the best implementation ever, Shrek. And it was because as far as I know MotB had no hidden checks.

You are right. I overread.

All I wanted to point out was that this is hardly desirable since it is internally broken no matter how well presented.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I suppose I was thinking he wanted a tailored experience because he's talking about being able to make up any mindset to set his character's intentions and then respond in any way whatsoever with the possibility of having those responses either be sincere or falsehoods.

In any game with alignment, if the game actually tracks your decisions for purposes of alignment shifting then the sincerity of your response matters. Also in cases where your mindset can matter because of omniscient entities (e.g. gods, mind readers), intentionality needs to be tracked. Further, in any game that has some sort of bluffing stat where you can be detected as lying, you once again need to track the PC's intentions. This leads into a case for a CRPG where every relevant response needs to have two answers (true/sincere). The only game that I saw try to do anything like that at all to any great extent is PS:T, which was actually kind of cool. But it's too much of a pain in the ass to put into most games - it's the sort of thing that's a niggling detail and better off left to a human DM in a tabletop environment.

 

[Jasede]

I am probably over-generalizing because I count only Obsidian's "good" games: Kotor 2, MotB and PS:T. All those are great because of how they break down ideas and because of the stories they tell, in the confines of their mechanics. The mechanics may not be the ideal but the story-telling takes full advantage of them. And for that, I think, they deserve a lot of recognition, especially if you compare the writing they have produced in those games to other games.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I am probably over-generalizing because I count only Obsidian's "good" games: Kotor 2, MotB and PS:T. All those are great because of how they break down ideas and because of the stories they tell, in the confines of their mechanics. The mechanics may not be the ideal but the story-telling takes full advantage of them. And for that, I think, they deserve a lot of recognition, especially if you compare the writing they have produced in those games to other games.

I have never doubted their writing.

 

[Volourn]

"You idiot, there's a difference how the story, characters and the game as a whole is presented, but I'm not surprised Bioware fanboy doesn't see the difference"

You are an idiot. A plain ol fahsion idiot.

In PST, you wake up in a morgue with no memory and one of the first things you talk to is a fukkin' skull. FFS How the fuck is that sublte? FFS

In ARC, you are on a fukkin' flying balloon that gets blown up by a fukkin' flying orc and one of the first people you meet refers to you as the 9false) Chosen One. How is that subtle? FFS

Both are very gooid games but theya re not subtle in their apporach nor would I fukkin' want them to be.

 

[evdk]

" FFS How the fuck is that sublte? FFS

It's subtle because it's Planescape.

 

[Scruffy]

"You idiot, there's a difference how the story, characters and the game as a whole is presented, but I'm not surprised Bioware fanboy doesn't see the difference"

You are an idiot. A plain ol fahsion idiot.

In PST, you wake up in a morgue with no memory and one of the first things you talk to is a fukkin' skull. FFS How the fuck is that sublte? FFS

In ARC, you are on a fukkin' flying balloon that gets blown up by a fukkin' flying orc and one of the first people you meet refers to you as the 9false) Chosen One. How is that subtle? FFS

Both are very gooid games but theya re not subtle in their apporach nor would I fukkin' want them to be.

butthurt bioware fanboy detected

 

[Volourn]

L0L I have spent $250 on a Obsidian game so I'm more an Obsidian fanboy than BIO. I also bought all of Troika's games and have not bought all BIO's games so I'm more a Troika fanboy. Get your fanboya cucsations right, biatch!

 

[Murk]

the fuck you talking about dialogue mechanic? You mean that there's a tag? The tag is there to harmonize in-game knowledge with ex-game knowledge. You the player wont' know if the option is a lie, necessarily, because you are not your actual character -- that's where the tag comes in, to let you know that saying that is not just a basic play of words but requires actual character ability.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

If you follow the storyline you really shouldn't need clues.

 

[Spockrock]

"Calvin and Hobbes" is among the finest newspaper comics ever created

 

[tuluse]

I am probably over-generalizing because I count only Obsidian's "good" games: Kotor 2, MotB and PS:T. All those are great because of how they break down ideas and because of the stories they tell, in the confines of their mechanics. The mechanics may not be the ideal but the story-telling takes full advantage of them. And for that, I think, they deserve a lot of recognition, especially if you compare the writing they have produced in those games to other games.

Sort of a nitpick, but PS:T isn't an Obsidian game.

 

[Jasede]

It's an MCA game. You know what I mean. I know. Sorry.

 

[Harold]

"I think lot of people are getting more and less mistaken wibe of the Project Eternity - They seem to think that it'll be more like The Witcher or "Bioware" over the top style, or then something like Fallout 1 or 2 which were over the top in their own way, and even Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 had pretty exaggerated story/plot.

The impression I get from the interviews I've read and especially from the interview with MCA after the Kickstarter that they want to do something what's more like Arcanum or PS:T from the mood-standpoint."

Yeah, because PST and Arcanum didn't have over the top stories and had subdued moods/plots.

You know.. that is PST with its amnesiac ugly immortal who is still attractive to others and has the power to destroy souls.

Then there'sm Arcanum where you only happen to have a villain who wants to basnish the world to the void so it no longer exists or something silly like that.

Yeah. VERY SUBTLE AND SUBDUED.

ARE YOU ON FUKKIN' CRACK?!?

Why do u lie?

Jasede Have you played Dead Money?

 

[Jasede]

No, but I've watched my roommate play it. It seemed very typical: a nice story with interesting characters in a lame engine with annoying combat. If Obsidian only got the combat right they'd be the equivalent of Looking Glass Studios, but for RPGs.

 

[Harold]

^I asked because I think it would end up in your pantheon, it's quite an atmospheric storyfagy experience. I don't see how you can stand NWN2's camera and combat, but find NV's unbearable. Incidentally NV is the game where Obsidian did get the combat right, within the constraints made by Bethesda, because Saywer tweaked the system to hell. If you play Dead Money with the JSawyer mod and on hardcore it ends up being... well, quite a hardcore experience. Given how important of a theme survival is in that DLC, this also helps the story be a lot more impactful in the end.

 

[Scruffy]

L0L I have spent $250 on a Obsidian game so I'm more an Obsidian fanboy than BIO. I also bought all of Troika's games and have not bought all BIO's games so I'm more a Troika fanboy. Get your fanboya cucsations right, biatch!

the butthurt is strong with this (fanboy) one

 

[Jasede]

^I asked because I think it would end up in your pantheon, it's quite an atmospheric storyfagy experience. I don't see how you can stand NWN2's camera and combat, but find NV's unbearable. Incidentally NV is the game where Obsidian did get the combat right, within the constraints made by Bethesda, because Saywer tweaked the system to hell. If you play Dead Money with the JSawyer mod and on hardcore it ends up being... well, quite a hardcore experience. Given how important of a theme survival is in that DLC, this also helps the story be a lot more impactful in the end.

I played NV briefly. It's not unbearable but I generally don't like FPS RPGs unless they're like Arx Fatalis or Wizardry. I feel that they did quite well given the engine.
And please don't get me wrong. I despise the NWN 2 engine. I can't stand the combat. The OC encounters were incredibly bad. But I just don't like playing expansions without playing the base game.

Plus, D&D is really easy for me because I know the D&D spells well. It's really just a matter of spending three minutes buffing everyone, then getting all the encounters out of the way as quickly as possible. I think Monk-Khelgar is woefully underrated because people don't realize how great buffed Monks are compared to fully buffed Fighters. But the game is so easy it doesn't matter, except for the very last fight which was somewhat memorable.

NWN 2 combat may be up for grabs for some of the worst. It's far inferior to the solo NWN combat (weirdly enough!) and light-years behind the encounter design in BG 2. MotB does a little better, though. But it's still hampered by the odd engine. Something about it just feels off.

 

[Jaesun]

the butthurt is strong with this (fanboy) one

How long have you been here?

 

[Harold]

Jasede
Fair enough. Carry on fighting the good fight on this thread and on the Obsidian forums.