Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Grunker]

Fighter

• Defender (Mode) - In the Defender mode, fighters' melee attack rates decrease while their melee defenses increase. This is a particularly useful mode to enter when a fighter is blocking a route of attack to protect other party members.
• Surge - This active ability allows fighters to rapidly regenerate Stamina for a short period of time.
• Melee Accuracy - Fighters have inherent skill with melee weapons that is reflected by a small accuracy bonus.

Rogue

• Escape - The rogue may hop a short distance away and all hostiles lose him or her as a direct target for 3 seconds. After the 3 seconds are up, enemies can target the rogue normally.
• Reversal - Reversal prepares the rogue for the next melee attack against him or her. When it hits, the rogue takes reduced damage and instantly rolls to the opposite side of the target and executes a powerful melee attack. This will even allow rogues to move past enemies that are fully blocking a path.
• Sneak Attack - This damage bonus applies whenever the rogue "flanks" an enemy or when the rogue is hidden from an enemy. Flanking means that the rogue is within a short distance of the target and on the "opposite" side of that enemy from an adjacent ally.

*sniff* *sniff*

Sure does smell like Dragon Age up in here.

 

[Captain Shrek]

The constant referral to DnD is jarring, it's as if having Tim Cain on board is just for show or something.

A whole lot of the fanbase for this sort of game are no doubt very familiar with D&D. For people who aren't familiar, Sawyer tried to give quick examples about the differences between the editions and then used those editions to quickly try and convey what their goals are for various targets. In this case, character build complexity. They're not just trying to slap D&D into their game without buying a license (and then find themselves getting sued), he's just trying to explain what they're aiming at in a way that is intelligible to the majority of the fans.

What would you rather he say to convey information about things that aren't developed enough for anyone to see yet still showing that they're working on it and starting to solidify the game's concepts?

Maybe: "We're working on a system that is going to have classes and levels like Phantasie, but it'll have modular build complexity. So you could make characters that don't need active management like a footsoldier in Warcraft 2 or you could make them as complex by having multiple active abilities like you can see high level Starcraft players using when they micro their units. Nothing will approach the complexity of my previous game Icewind Dale 2 which I did not want to mention here as I understand that many of you hate or are otherwise concerned about D&D which is why you are following and probably pledged for a game that is to emulate games that were based on either 2nd or 3rd edition (A)D&D. If you have not played the computer games I've mentioned - just understand that you can build a character to require moderate levels of clicking and choices or no clicking or deviation from the baseline class template."

I think you are reading too much or if you are right he's overthinking it. The fanbase has ALREADY paid the monies. It's a kickstarter remember? Even more so a kickstarter advertised with the central theme of IE games. I am sure most of the people listening to him are perfectly aware of what a RPG is.

 

[evdk]

Grunker
I got a distinctly 4E vibe from that, actually.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Grunker
I got a distinctly 4E MMO vibe from that, actually.

 

[Grunker]

More stuff:

- Block interface:

- Inventory management streamlining:

- Paperdoll awareness: (though from what little he says about the avatar, it sounds like equipment won't be displayed that much on that )

- Bridging 3.5 and 4th: in theory, but FUCK HIM FOR SAYING "OMG 3.5 SOOOO COMPLEX CAN'T HANDLE IT!" IWD II overly complex?!?

- ^ Besides, you could play a passive fighter easy in 3.5, what is he on about? One of the biggest problems of the 3.5 fighter was its lack of anything active.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I think you are reading too much or if you are right he's overthinking it. The fanbase has ALREADY paid the monies. It's a kickstarter remember? Even more so a kickstarter advertised with the central theme of IE games. I am sure most of the people listening to him are perfectly aware of what a RPG is.

Certainly. My point was simply that it strikes me that he tends to use references to D&D as a shorthand for people to get what they're trying to go for since there were distinctions between the editions and also because it is most likely a familiar frame of reference shared by the backers since the games they were playing on nostalgia for were all based on D&D (with the exception of Arcanum, but I don't recall if they explicitly said much of anything about Arcanum during their pitch. I don't think so). They did mention things like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment... I believe also Temple of Elemental Evil and Neverwinter Nights 2, albeit to a much lesser degree. These are all D&D games.

I think your fears are unfounded at this point. I think he's just describing a frame of reference and either way, I find that most class based fantasy RPGs have at least passing similarities to (A)D&D. This could be the sole exception, but we'll see. It is going to be a class based rather than skill based game, though. So it's not like it'll be the second coming of Arcanum or Fallout.

 

[Infinitron]

IWD2 was 3, not 3.5. :aspergers:

 

[Esquilax]

Fighter

• Defender (Mode) - In the Defender mode, fighters' melee attack rates decrease while their melee defenses increase. This is a particularly useful mode to enter when a fighter is blocking a route of attack to protect other party members.
• Surge - This active ability allows fighters to rapidly regenerate Stamina for a short period of time.
• Melee Accuracy - Fighters have inherent skill with melee weapons that is reflected by a small accuracy bonus.

Rogue

• Escape - The rogue may hop a short distance away and all hostiles lose him or her as a direct target for 3 seconds. After the 3 seconds are up, enemies can target the rogue normally.
• Reversal - Reversal prepares the rogue for the next melee attack against him or her. When it hits, the rogue takes reduced damage and instantly rolls to the opposite side of the target and executes a powerful melee attack. This will even allow rogues to move past enemies that are fully blocking a path.
• Sneak Attack - This damage bonus applies whenever the rogue "flanks" an enemy or when the rogue is hidden from an enemy. Flanking means that the rogue is within a short distance of the target and on the "opposite" side of that enemy from an adjacent ally.

*sniff* *sniff*

Sure does smell like Dragon Age up in here.

The sneak attack mechanic outlined here reminds me of Dragon Age, sure, but what about the other stuff? I don't see a lot of stuff like Taunts that were used a lot in DA: O. For the record, I'm not trying to say that having some similarities to DA:O combat is a bad thing, I thought that the combat itself was some of the best RTwP I've seen in a game (which, to be honest, isn't really high praise), the real problem was the encounter design, but of course that's a different issue altogether.

 

[Grunker]

Grunker
I got a distinctly 4E vibe from that, actually.

Which part? The passive defense mode rendering your party a static tank? The accuracy bonus? Or the fact that he can regen some stamina?

Sounds like DA to me, though the difference is in the Eye of the Beholder. Dragon Age was, in some ways, a simplified version of 4th with one or two MMO mechanics thrown in.

The comparison Shrek makes between 4th and an MMO is completely faulty, of course, 4th plays nothing like an MMO (guess Shrek hasn't actually played 4th?).

Anyway, if he succeeds with the bridge between 4th and 3.5, this could be good, but he misses the point completely with his "3.5 overly complex too many options" schtick. IWD II having too many options... I mean fuck. That gives me the creeps.

IWD2 was 3, not 3.5. :aspergers:

What he talks about, the level-up choices (the feat options which his brain can't handle apparantly) is true for both.

 

[Captain Shrek]

IWD2 was 3, not 3.5. :aspergers:

Not supporting anybody, but 3 & 3.5 are cosmetic differences. I don't care what halflings can hold unless it interferes with powergaming (it did).

 

[Captain Shrek]

The comparison Shrek makes between 4th and an MMO is completely faulty, of course, 4th plays nothing like an MMO (guess Shrek hasn't actually played 4th?).

o_O

What are you on about?

I never made any comparisons of 4E to MMO. I said the mechanics feels like MMO.

 

[Grunker]

@Shrek: You said 4E MMO. I assumed you meant there was a connection. I apologize.

Fighter

• Defender (Mode) - In the Defender mode, fighters' melee attack rates decrease while their melee defenses increase. This is a particularly useful mode to enter when a fighter is blocking a route of attack to protect other party members.
• Surge - This active ability allows fighters to rapidly regenerate Stamina for a short period of time.
• Melee Accuracy - Fighters have inherent skill with melee weapons that is reflected by a small accuracy bonus.

Rogue

• Escape - The rogue may hop a short distance away and all hostiles lose him or her as a direct target for 3 seconds. After the 3 seconds are up, enemies can target the rogue normally.
• Reversal - Reversal prepares the rogue for the next melee attack against him or her. When it hits, the rogue takes reduced damage and instantly rolls to the opposite side of the target and executes a powerful melee attack. This will even allow rogues to move past enemies that are fully blocking a path.
• Sneak Attack - This damage bonus applies whenever the rogue "flanks" an enemy or when the rogue is hidden from an enemy. Flanking means that the rogue is within a short distance of the target and on the "opposite" side of that enemy from an adjacent ally.

*sniff* *sniff*

Sure does smell like Dragon Age up in here.

The sneak attack mechanic outlined here reminds me of Dragon Age, sure, but what about the other stuff?

The sneak attack mechanic, the defensive mode, the way they're making positioning important in a RtWP-game, the rogue's ability to "lose threat." I like Dragon Age, but I was hoping for something better from PE. Something more Infinity Engine, that shedded the tacky MMO-stuff and hardline division between classes that put them in one role which couldn't be that well customized. This looks a lot similar.

 

[evdk]

Not supporting anybody, but 3 & 3.5 are cosmetic differences. I don't care what halflings can hold unless it interferes with powergaming (it did).

Drastically shortened buff duration is not a cosmetic change.

o_O

What are you on about?

I never made any comparisons of 4E to MMO. I said the mechanics feels like MMO.

Sorry, but the way you have edited my post to make your point could be read as comparing 4E to a MMO. I certainly understood it that way too.

 

[Infinitron]

Grunker
Dragon Age used MMO-style aggro mechanics to do that kind of stuff. This is a lot more direct.

It's actually sort of twitchy. More Dark Souls than Dragon Age?

 

[Grunker]

Grunker
Dragon Age used MMO-style aggro mechanics to do that kind of stuff. This is a lot more direct.

And functionally nearly identical.

 

[Infinitron]

Grunker
Dragon Age used MMO-style aggro mechanics to do that kind of stuff. This is a lot more direct.

And functionally nearly identical.

I disagree. If you lower aggro it stays low. Here, you know they will be attacking you again in 3 seconds. There's no retarded "aggro management" metagame.

Ultimately, though, we won't know how cheesy it is until the game is released.

 

[Jarpie]

Defender mode sounds quite a bit like Expertise/Imp. Expertise in 3E which gave either +4 or +8 AC and -4 or -8 AB penalty.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Defender mode sounds quite a bit like Expertise/Imp. Expertise in 3E which gave either +4 or +8 AC and -4 or -8 AB penalty.

In a way. But not really:

The Attack Roll is not modified. The Attack speed ( ) is.

DPS.

 

[Infinitron]

Defender mode sounds quite a bit like Expertise/Imp. Expertise in 3E which gave either +4 or +8 AC and -4 or -8 AB penalty.

In a way. But not really:

The Attack Roll is not modified. The Attack speed ( ) is.

DPS.

I guess the D&D Haste spell is "DPS" too.

Don't be a dumbass, Shrek. There are things to criticize in this update without resorting to cheap buzzwords. "DPS! Dragon Age! Decline!"

 

[Captain Shrek]

Don't be a dumbass, Shrek. There are things to criticize in this update without resorting to cheap buzzwords. "DPS! Dragon Age! Decline!"

I wonder who is being a dumbass.

There are clear problems here that you are refusing to see, because hey favorite dev!! I am just being objective about it. Attack speed in IE games means Jack Shit since it was round based. If PE is Round based too (they are advertising it as RTwP) then attack speed is imply a misnomer. SInce in IE games you were LIMITED to number of attacks by AB.

See?

This is the difference between being dumbass and being informed and experienced with computer games. You are the one being a dumbass with blind acceptance.

 

[CappenVarra]

Fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell a healing surge. Hmph.

 

[Infinitron]

This is the difference between being dumbass and being informed and experienced with computer games. You are the one being a dumbass with blind acceptance.

Uh, in case you haven't noticed, I just said that the Rogue abilities were twitchy, like an action-RPG.

It seems people would rather get off comparing the game to Dragon Age than notice that it might actually be even less of an RPG than Dragon Age in some ways.

 

[Captain Shrek]

This is the difference between being dumbass and being informed and experienced with computer games. You are the one being a dumbass with blind acceptance.

Uh, in case you haven't noticed, I just said that the Rogue abilities were twitchy, like an action-RPG.

It seems people would rather get off comparing the game to Dragon Age than notice that it might actually be even less of an RPG than Dragon Age in some ways.

Well then no point calling me a dumbass is there?

 

[Infinitron]

This is the difference between being dumbass and being informed and experienced with computer games. You are the one being a dumbass with blind acceptance.

Uh, in case you haven't noticed, I just said that the Rogue abilities were twitchy, like an action-RPG.

It seems people would rather get off comparing the game to Dragon Age than notice that it might actually be even less of an RPG than Dragon Age in some ways.

Well then no point calling me a dumbass is there?

Saying that "attack speed == DPS == DECLINE!!!" is retarded.

 

[Infinitron]

No.

I have sent a question to Josh on his Formspring expressing my concern over the seemingly twitchy, action-RPG nature of the Rogue abilities. Let's see if he responds.