Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[felipepepe]

That "inbalance" makes sense in a party cRPG, you're contorlling 6 guys at once, not all of them must be engaged in extremely amusing tasks 100% of the time... in fact, going RTwP on a party game with massive micromanage sounds like a pain... auto-pause, here we go.

 

[Alex]

DnD wizards were never subtle.

Illusionists were (at least if they were smart). Good transmutters weren't subtle, but they sometimes had subtle ideas of how to mix their spells and situation. Diviners hat to be subtle too, though these were few and far between.

 

[Castanova]

The PE Wizard seems to be more like an Archer wearing robes and occasionally casting a spell.

That is how they are in the IE series. Archers (with dart or slings) that occasionally cast spells.

That really is true only for BG1 and low levels in IWD. After that it's spell time armageddon.

Yeah, I distinctly remember casting many a spell while playing BG2 and the IWD games. Also, after casting spells, my casters were mostly running away from chasing monsters, not plinking at people with a sling.

 

[Delterius]

Yeah, I distinctly remember casting many a spell while playing BG2 and the IWD games. Also, after casting spells, my casters were mostly running away from chasing monsters, not plinking at people with a sling.

It depends on the spell, but was there nothing in between?

 

[Excidium]

Those class abilities make no fucking sense. I wasn't sure Obsidian could design something more arbitrary than D&D, but there you have it.

How does the Fighter regenerate stamina? Magic?

Why can a Wizard permanently enchant his weapons to cause magic blasts when magical effects are supposed to be fleeting and limited? Is it because the mage is holding the weapon so he's constantly channeling his magic power on it? Why can't he permanently enchant his armor too, then?

I won't even ask about the Rogue ability because what the hell...

 

[Delterius]

Those class abilities make no fucking sense. I wasn't sure Obsidian could design something more arbitrary than D&D, but there you have it.

How does the Fighter regenerate stamina? Magic?

Why can a Wizard permanently enchant his weapons to cause magic blasts when magical effects are supposed to be fleeting and limited? Is it because the mage is holding the weapon so he's constantly channeling his magic power on it? Why can't he permanently enchant his armor too, then?

I won't even ask about the Rogue ability because what the hell...

Actually, that sounds about as arbitrary as D&D, 4E at least. The one thing I hear all the time about it is how everyone can heal themselves.

As for the Wizard thing, that brings up a good point. They could expand on the Wizard's abilities to other things, instead of leaving Blast awkwardly unique.

 

[Infinitron]

You haven't been paying attention, Excidium.

The power of souls!

 

[Excidium]

You haven't been paying attention, Excidium.

The power of souls!

Yeah that's the first thing that came to my mind, it can explain the Fighter ability at least. Tap into your soul to heal yourself, woot! Doesn't sound very fighter-ish to me...

 

[Infinitron]

Well, for us class purists, let's hope there are enough options to customize the classes to be as AD&D-ish as possible without gimping them.

Josh has promised several times that this will be possible.

 

[Hormalakh]

fighters restoring stamina = stalling and taking a breather in-between killing goblins. that's how i see it.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Those class abilities make no fucking sense. I wasn't sure Obsidian could design something more arbitrary than D&D, but there you have it.

How does the Fighter regenerate stamina? Magic?

You know when you're outside and for some reason find yourself running? And then your lungs start to burn, and pain like a screeching processor starts emanating from your sides, and your body feels like a RROD'ed xbox? And then over time, as you breathe and stop running, the feeling stops? If you haven't experienced this personally, I'm sure someone in your immediate family has. I imagine "regenerating stamina" is much like that.

 

[Delterius]

fighters restoring stamina = stalling and taking a breather in-between killing goblins. that's how i see it.

'Surge - This active ability allows fighters to rapidly regenerate Stamina for a short period of time.'

Makes sense, however that explanation depends enormously on how it will be implemented, and I don't think taking a breather could possibly happen rapidly. Not to mention about that being avaiable when the Fighter is still engaging the enemy.

 

[Excidium]

You know when you're outside and for some reason find yourself running? And then your lungs start to burn, and pain like a screeching processor starts emanating from your sides, and your body feels like a RROD'ed xbox? And then over time, as you breathe and stop running, the feeling stops? If you haven't experienced this personally, I'm sure someone in your immediate family has. I imagine "regenerating stamina" is much like that.

That isn't it because everyone regenerate stamina outside of combat. The fighter ability looks more like an in-combat regen: "Surge - This active ability allows fighters to rapidly regenerate Stamina for a short period of time."

Well, for us class purists, let's hope there are enough options to customize the classes to be as AD&D-ish as possible without gimping them.

Josh has promised several times that this will be possible.

Aren't those base abilities all classes have?

 

[Infinitron]

Aren't those base abilities all classes have?

Not sure. Maybe you can elect not to have them on chargen. Or maybe Josh meant that you would just not use them.

 

[Captain Shrek]

That really is true only for BG1 and low levels in IWD. After that it's spell time armageddon.

 

[Hormalakh]

fighters restoring stamina = stalling and taking a breather in-between killing goblins. that's how i see it.

'Surge - This active ability allows fighters to rapidly regenerate Stamina for a short period of time.'

Makes sense, however that explanation depends enormously on how it will be implemented, and I don't think taking a breather could possibly happen rapidly. Not to mention about that being avaiable when the Fighter is still engaging the enemy.

Some people, athletes usually, can actually recover much faster than the general joe schmoe. Olympic athletes recover much faster. EPO levels, myoglobin levels, upregulation of different isozymes, etc. It's all very technical. I don't imagine they'll be swinging their sword when using the "surge" ability. edit: (some energy reserves are also unlocked for people who can over-ride reflexes, adrenaline also plays a role)

add in a little soul power to make it fantasy, and boom you got yourself a surge.

 

[Delterius]

Hell, its also true of BG1. Its just that the only 3 things in the wilderness that could conceivably force you into magic are ogre berserkers, sirenes and the vampiric wolf.

fighters restoring stamina = stalling and taking a breather in-between killing goblins. that's how i see it.

'Surge - This active ability allows fighters to rapidly regenerate Stamina for a short period of time.'

Makes sense, however that explanation depends enormously on how it will be implemented, and I don't think taking a breather could possibly happen rapidly. Not to mention about that being avaiable when the Fighter is still engaging the enemy.

Some people, athletes usually, can actually recover much faster than the general joe schmoe. Olympic athletes recover much faster. EPO levels, myoglobin levels, upregulation of different isozymes, etc. It's all very technical. I don't imagine they'll be swinging their sword when using the "surge" ability.

I'm no expert, but I'm positive that by 'short period of time' Sawyer means seconds. And the whole thing of still being under attack (and thus, still be 'swinging' their swords and shields) is yet another hole in that theory.

However, 'Surge' could still make the fighter more/completely vulnerable in battle.

 

[Captain Shrek]

fighters restoring stamina = stalling and taking a breather in-between killing goblins. that's how i see it.

'Surge - This active ability allows fighters to rapidly regenerate Stamina for a short period of time.'

Makes sense, however that explanation depends enormously on how it will be implemented, and I don't think taking a breather could possibly happen rapidly. Not to mention about that being avaiable when the Fighter is still engaging the enemy.

Some people, athletes usually, can actually recover much faster than the general joe schmoe. Olympic athletes recover much faster. EPO levels, myoglobin levels, upregulation of different isozymes, etc. It's all very technical. I don't imagine they'll be swinging their sword when using the "surge" ability.

Again the realism argument.

This argument is irrelevant.

WE do not want to seek arguments to support if a particular ability corresponds to some life-like instance. I would rather want it to be tactically deep first. Realism is a flavour I enjoy too but not at the cost of gameplay.

 

[Excidium]

fighters restoring stamina = stalling and taking a breather in-between killing goblins. that's how i see it.

'Surge - This active ability allows fighters to rapidly regenerate Stamina for a short period of time.'

Makes sense, however that explanation depends enormously on how it will be implemented, and I don't think taking a breather could possibly happen rapidly. Not to mention about that being avaiable when the Fighter is still engaging the enemy.

Some people, athletes usually, can actually recover much faster than the general joe schmoe. Olympic athletes recover much faster. EPO levels, myoglobin levels, upregulation of different isozymes, etc. It's all very technical. I don't imagine they'll be swinging their sword when using the "surge" ability.

Where does it say the effect is interrupted if you engage in combat? Remember it's an active effect with a short duration, it's more of a tactical choice than something like "Passive - Fighters regenerate stamina faster".

 

[Hormalakh]

^^Where does it say it isn't interrupted?

 

[Excidium]

Are you serious?

 

[Shadenuat]

That is how they are in the IE series. Archers (with dart or slings) that occasionally cast spells.

No, they were one-shot (or many-shot later) tactical artillery; they could use some simple weapons which barely did any damage, which was physical, not magical. IE mages with slings are nothing like staffspammers from DA:O or DA2, or any other mages which have DPS tied to their weapon.

DnD wizards were never subtle.

What the shit? To survive as 1st level wizard in D&D (when DM is an ass!), you have to go all Rincewind if you want to live.
They were't too "subtle" in CRPGs, because everything is combat oriented, and because games like BG and NWN have friendly fire as optional.
What wizards *were* subtle in CRPGs? What is it mean even to "be subtle"? You could use divination, scry map, become invisible, transfrom into monsters in BG. Good enough for me.

People seem to got used to old games and now take everything from them as a given. Sure it is easy to wave a hand and dismiss any old game as a shitty one, because you know it as your own five fingers and could beat it eyes closed one hand tied behind. Pfft.

 

[Infinitron]

Judging from Josh's response to my question about kiting on his Formspring, he's not against the idea of actions interrupting other actions: http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/405757593642891052

 

[tuluse]

Not sure. Maybe you can elect not to have them on chargen. Or maybe Josh meant that you would just not use them.

He said there will be plenty of passive abilities to choose from, so you don't have to take active ones.

What the shit? To survive as 1st level wizard in D&D (when DM is an ass!), you have to go all Rincewind if you want to live.
They were't too "subtle" in CRPGs, because everything is combat oriented, and because games like BG and NWN have friendly fire as optional.
What wizards *were* subtle in CRPGs? What is it mean even to "be subtle"? You could use divination, scry map, become invisible, transfrom into monsters in BG. Good enough for me.

People seem to got used to old games and now take everything from them as a given. Sure it is easy to wave a hand and dismiss any old game as a shitty one, because you know it as your own five fingers and could beat it eyes closed one hand tied behind. Pfft.

I never said there were CRPGs where there were subtle wizards, but complaining that a game which is supposed to be an IE clone doesn't have subtle wizards when IE (and really dnd) wizards are walking fireball launchers seems misguided to me.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

How does the Fighter regenerate stamina? Magic?

Gatorade. Or gels, heroin whatever

The should just call it "second wind" so I don't think of that shitty Mountain Dew wannabe.