Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Shadenuat]

Hormalakh, but after you catch your breath, you can do a kick, or a punch, or a grab. Imagine each of your body parts would rest separetely one from another.

 

[Infinitron]

Hormalakh, but after you catch your breath, you can do a kick, or a punch, or a grab. Imagine each of your body parts would rest separetely one from another.

Spells won't work that way in PE though. Not sure about other abilities.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Oh great, now the "realistic" argument. Yeah, cooldowns are OK because they're "realistic"

 

[Hormalakh]

i'm not saying cooldowns are ok because they're realistic. I'm saying people hate on cooldowns because 1) they're unrealistic or something 2) they involve gaming degeneracy (in other words, hur durr MMO playing).

If 1 is the reason, it's a lame one. EDIT: It's lame because of what I said in the previous post about realism. If 2 is the reason, it seems to me that Sawyer is trying to wrok out the kinks. He's trying to make cooldowns work without degeneracy. Hating on cooldowns just because "cooldowns" is not rational. You have to see how it plays before you can say incline/decline.

Edit edit: I really hope game-testers and Sawyer especially are going to be playing this game with degeneracy in mind. Just play as cheaply and cheesily as possible. See where degeneracy peeks out and then try to fix it with properly implemented mechanics. That would be the best way. Like infinitron said, words like "cooldown ugh" and "DA2 decline" mean nothing. If the game plays degenerately with the implemented mechanics, then the mechanics need to either change or be adjusted. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Alex]

Sorry if it is getting tiring having me criticize every newspost on PE, specially since I am not a backer or anything. Still, I really dislike the idea of spells becoming a "per encounter" resource. First, because it implies the utility of first level spells eventually diminishes to the point where this doesn't make Wizards overpowered. I would much rather have something akin to AD&D, where first level spells have some of the most interesting applications, and actually remain useful throughout the character's life.

Second it really makes me dread they are removing the use of magic from combat even more, given how they call it per encounter. Though this is just extrapolation and may prove to be very wrong.

 

[Hormalakh]

That's not how it's going to work Alex. Some lower-tier spells will (at higher-levels) become per-encounter. But higher-tier spells will remain Vancian (per rest).

 

[Lancehead]

Regarding the top of pack inventory, I hope they make it so that every item takes up one slot (plus stacking where appropriate), and not item size dependent.

 

[Hormalakh]

Re: inventory. I really hope they implement beasts of burden now. It just makes sense to have them and place them at possible camp sites (outside of dungeons, for example). They would serve the function of you knowing where you can and can't rest and it helps those who can't imagine the "stash." Just a little thing.

They could also make stashes change space limitations by having to buy more beasts of burden or stronger beasts of burden with more bags on them. Just a thought.

 

[Pelvis Knot]

i'm not saying cooldowns are ok because they're realistic. I'm saying people hate on cooldowns because 1) they're unrealistic or something 2) they involve gaming degeneracy (in other words, hur durr MMO playing).

If 1 is the reason, it's a lame one. EDIT: It's lame because of what I said in the previous post about realism. If 2 is the reason, it seems to me that Sawyer is trying to wrok out the kinks. He's trying to make cooldowns work without degeneracy. Hating on cooldowns just because "cooldowns" is not rational. You have to see how it plays before you can say incline/decline.

Edit edit: I really hope game-testers and Sawyer especially are going to be playing this game with degeneracy in mind. Just play as cheaply and cheesily as possible. See where degeneracy peeks out and then try to fix it with properly implemented mechanics. That would be the best way. Like infinitron said, words like "cooldown ugh" and "DA2 decline" mean nothing. If the game plays degenerately with the implemented mechanics, then the mechanics need to either change or be adjusted. That's my opinion anyway.

This is the way of The Codex.
As much as people here (and elsewhere) bitch and cry how they don't like black & white morality etc., everything else seemingly IS either 0 or 1.
You say cooldown, they say WAAAAH (not that I ever saw a good implementation)
You say turn based, people go (did they play Arcanum?)
You say "I'd rather have nicer graphics than uglier", you get labeled a graphicswhore.
Next time you rave about Roland sound cards, and you're all .

In GD it's: hurr, you're a librul/conservatard, therefore you're wrong!

 

[Alex]

That's not how it's going to work Alex. Some lower-tier spells will (at higher-levels) become per-encounter. But higher-tier spells will remain Vancian (per rest).

Sorry, I was a bit unclear, but my complaint was specifically about 1st level (and supposedly, some of the later levels too) becoming per encounter. I imagine that means that you won't have powerful early level spells like in D&D, like say, Enlarge, Phantom Mount, Alter Self, Sleep, Chromatic Orb. Much less anything like Lamentations of the Flame Princess' Summon.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Which makes me wonder, will we then have to have our fighters make sure they can use all 3 different types? Not sure what the fuck to make of this.

Well, Josh just said there won't be weapon specializations... it seems like every fighter can just swap weapons for each encounter and that's it. Bad move IMHO, dumbs down the game, reduces the value of a well-biult party and makes metagaming more powerfull.

That would be a huge temptation to metagame if you can't switch weapons at all, but it might just mean that fighters will have to take up a quickslot with a secondary weapon or have secondary weapon sets that can be swapped mid battle without accessing the main inventory. Or everyone will use spears to have a balance of the total damage/armor piercing.

It could be interesting if different weapons combined damage types, like an axe does 1d6 slashing and 2 bludgeoning. Which would provide more reason to choose, say a morningstar over a mace.

 

[Blaine]

The art direction and technical implementation of graphics (regardless of the technology used) are always important, unless it's a text game.

This twenty-year-old game still has good graphics:

 

[Hormalakh]

What game is that Blaine? Edit: NVM. Syndicate. Will play one day...

@Harg, yeah I proposed a similar idea to the Obsidian forums. We'll see if they implement it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

What game is that Blaine?

 

[Infinitron]

Younglings gonna young.

Hormalakh: Get it, play it http://af.gog.com/gamecard/syndicate?as=1649904300

 

[Hormalakh]

Thanks Infinitron. It's astounding the number of good oldies I haven't played...

 

[Infinitron]

Notice that it had a quest compass. DECLINEEEEEEEE

 

[Hormalakh]

^ LOL.... My point exactly.

 

[Alex]

Indeed, Infinitron and Hormalakh, Syndicate was decline incarnate as an RPG.

 

[Delterius]

I don't see how this can be a step backwards, rather it can be sideways. And that's assuming somethings about the game's AI.

The only real statement there is that Sawyer doesn't want single-characters kiting - something that was also present in the IE games, and that strategic games should disallow.

I think there is some cross-talk here.

I have been talking about how:

1) The game is designed around ideas seemed to be borrowed from MMOs (cooldowns, Regens and Tank, Healer, Nuker trio ectc)
2) How the real time element of this game (and YES of IE games) can be exploited diminishing the game play challenge

Secondly IE games were Round based which is NOT ideal in my book but I can see why it might be used. This game is Animation time based. (sorry, not a technical term. I have discussed this thing earlier here). Which itself enforces certain kinds of tactics (Read Diablo tactics). When a game is designed around Abilities on regen/cooldown and RT, certain tactics naturally emerge, is what I am opinionating. There is where I may be wrong and you should try to prove me incorrect.

Now that's a entirely different thing and I don't think you're incorrect. Though my background as a RTS player doesn't let me see kiting or the coordination of each unit's animation cycle as a exploit, in fact, that sounds like the sort of thing you'd expect from a real time game.

Kiting, however, get especially lame in RTwP CRPGs, where you can sometimes kite with a single ranged character. And that's already out of the way.

 

[Pelvis Knot]

i'm not saying cooldowns are ok because they're realistic. I'm saying people hate on cooldowns because 1) they're unrealistic or something 2) they involve gaming degeneracy (in other words, hur durr MMO playing).

If 1 is the reason, it's a lame one. EDIT: It's lame because of what I said in the previous post about realism. If 2 is the reason, it seems to me that Sawyer is trying to wrok out the kinks. He's trying to make cooldowns work without degeneracy. Hating on cooldowns just because "cooldowns" is not rational. You have to see how it plays before you can say incline/decline.

Edit edit: I really hope game-testers and Sawyer especially are going to be playing this game with degeneracy in mind. Just play as cheaply and cheesily as possible. See where degeneracy peeks out and then try to fix it with properly implemented mechanics. That would be the best way. Like infinitron said, words like "cooldown ugh" and "DA2 decline" mean nothing. If the game plays degenerately with the implemented mechanics, then the mechanics need to either change or be adjusted. That's my opinion anyway.

This is the way of The Codex.
As much as people here (and elsewhere) bitch and cry how they don't like black & white morality etc., everything else seemingly IS either 0 or 1.
You say cooldown, they say WAAAAH (not that I ever saw a good implementation)
You say turn based, people go (did they play Arcanum?)
You say "I'd rather have nicer graphics than uglier", you get labeled a graphicswhore.
Next time you rave about Roland sound cards, and you're all .

In GD it's: hurr, you're a librul/conservatard, therefore you're wrong!

There is no such hivemind and this is retarded.

Raising the issue of Arcanum is in itself stupid. There is no question that Shit can be an ingredient in cakes.Whether it should be is up to you.

The point is, there are no silver bullets. Nothing is automatically great or terrible. It depends on how it is implemented.

 

[Castanova]

The fact that Wizards can auto-attack with wands/rods/scepters is probably the most troubling aspect of this post. I envision a true Wizard constantly manipulating the battle in one way or another, frequently in subtle ways and rarely in X-TREME ways) while being vulnerable to physical harm. The PE Wizard seems to be more like an Archer wearing robes and occasionally casting a spell.

 

[Jaesun]

The PE Wizard seems to be more like an Archer wearing robes and occasionally casting a spell.

That is how they are in the IE series. Archers (with dart or slings) that occasionally cast spells.

 

[evdk]

The PE Wizard seems to be more like an Archer wearing robes and occasionally casting a spell.

That is how they are in the IE series. Archers (with dart or slings) that occasionally cast spells.

That really is true only for BG1 and low levels in IWD. After that it's spell time armageddon.

 

[tuluse]

DnD wizards were never subtle.