Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Hormalakh]

when it comes to combat, I don't actually "hate" it too much that he's moving towards RTSs as inspiration. I do still think though, that this doesn't mean we have to go completely in that direction.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You left out the part where he said players hate the all-or-nothing aspect of THAC0/BAB.

The fuck is all-or-nothing about these? That you can miss is all-or-nothing?

And of course, again he knows what "players" want. And obviously "players" means ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY on Earth and he knows what ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY wants and likes.

Guess everybody who played anything before 4Ed came and save them were in so much pain.

God, this guy is a stuck-up moron.

 

[Roguey]

YCS is fucking with my shit.

I'm not going to make some Formspring thing just to respond so I'll drop it here: every RPG I've played with this kind of deterministic no-missing system turns combat into longwinded battles of attrition. You win everything by outhealing the damage they do to you and/or by maximizing DPS.

 

[Blaine]

The fuck is all-or-nothing about these? That you can miss is all-or-nothing?

Yes, that is how THAC0 worked. Either you succeeded your roll and successfully hit, dealing full damage, or you missed your roll and failed to hit, dealing no damage. I believe there were a few other ways to "soak" damage in AD&D 2nd and earlier (damage reduction or some such), but these were generally special spell effects or inherent monster/racial qualities.

'Course, it's been over a decade since I've read any of that mess.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh look, something interesting happened while I was away.

As always, everything will depend on the implementation. If you can use half minimum damage "misses" to chip away enemy's health instead of using proper tactics, then that will suck. If half-minimum damage is so meaningless as to be a miss, then it won't matter.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Either you succeeded your roll and successfully hit, dealing full damage,

No, you didn't do full damage because damage is rolled too?

binary hit miss

Retard doesn't understand the meaning of binary.

 

[Blaine]

Oh look, something interesting happened while I was away.

The Inifnitron emerged for a few moments to procure nutrients before slithering back into its crevice.

 

[suejak]

I'm trying to envision a RTwP rpg with a deterministic damage system like WOW, Dota 2, or Warcraft 3, and it doesn't seem very fun.

Especially in a system with no healing spells?? What the fuck is this gong show?

 

[Hormalakh]

Roguey, I hope you don't mind: I quoted you on Formspring but didn't attribute it to you.

 

[Blaine]

No, you didn't do full damage because damage is rolled too?

Foiled again by nitpicking and/or semantics! Far be it from it from me stand in the way of pointless ranting and tantrum-throwing. Please continue, O wise sage.

 

[Roguey]

Roguey, I hope you don't mind: I quoted you on Formspring but didn't attribute it to you.

I'm too damned inarticulate to quote. Look at VD's thoughts on the matter: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...does-dragon-age-ii.57376/page-11#post-1585975
Edit: Also http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-does-dragon-age-ii.57376/page-8#post-1584053 and http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-does-dragon-age-ii.57376/page-7#post-1583385
Yeah, I worked my way backwards.

 

[Hormalakh]

Infinitron What are you on about? If it's meant to be meaningless then don't implement it. It's obviously going to be meaningful. It becomes a game of attrition, regardless of how it's implemented.

 

[Infinitron]

Infinitron What are you on about? If it's meant to be meaningless then don't implement it.

Not true. It might be meaningless when the enemy is at full health, but when you've nearly gotten him down to zero health, a few half-min-damage "misses" will finish the job.

The meaningfulness of "miss damage" is relative to the enemy's total health, it's not an absolute value.

 

[Hormalakh]

Roguey: Well I think you articulated it well enough. The HP bloat was also just mentioned by another person. I really don't think this is a great idea. Hopefully enough people disagree with him that he changes his mind.

I also kind of hate the fact that Something Awful is the go-to forum for "gamers" opinions. It terms of statistics, the Obsidian forums would be a better determinant of the Vox Populi because people who actually cared for the game go there first. I, myself, am not willing to pay for the chance to see Sawyer's thoughts on that site and I know there are quite a few who are like me.

 

[Blaine]

Yes, well, it was your choice to support and anticipate a game helmed by a vegan male feminist and longtime Something Awful regular. It's strange—I'm less inclined to whine about his decisions (yet) than the man's greatest supporters on the Codex.

 

[Roguey]

I'm a feminist and a vegetarian myself. Why wouldn't I support such a person?

I also kind of hate the fact that Something Awful is the go-to forum for "gamers" opinions.

My screengrab wasn't from SA. It's a video game shit posting forum that used to be a subforum there. A bit like the Codex, though as you can see "their" opinions will zig where "ours" zag.

 

[Hormalakh]

Ultimately his responsibilities for this game are to the people who supported them through Kickstarter, not Something Awful. If he has something to share, he should share it with the investors, not his chums. Frankly, his taste in food and human rights have nothing to do with how he makes a game (so I don't really know why you even mentioned that). But his communication with the supporters of the game should be available to everyone. Unless Something Awful is a place where only experienced game developers go, I don't see why they are even a factor.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.formspring.me/GZiets/q/410612333086262131

Do you think you will be able to have the same kind of impact on Project Eternity that you had on NWN2 MotB?

My role on Project Eternity is somewhat different from the one I had on MotB. While I have been working on story drafts and world design, PE is a bigger game and the narrative elements will be more of a collaborative effort. For example, the seed of the narrative and the broad outlines of the world were developed by Josh Sawyer (as seen in the Kickstarter updates), and what the story is “about” was determined in a series of very productive design meetings that included me, Josh, Jorge Salgado, Bobby Null, and others. After each meeting, I’ll go off and write a story draft, and then we come back to the table and discuss, edit, iterate.

Where is MCA??

Chris has participated in some of the narrative discussions, and he’s also been reviewing and commenting on our material.

http://www.formspring.me/GZiets/q/410894970191376085

I’m not on site, so I don’t know the exact nature of his role on PE. I suspect he’ll be writing some companions, contributing to overall design discussion, and helping out where he's needed. Josh may be able to tell you more.

 

[Infinitron]

Ultimately his responsibilities for this game are to the people who supported them through Kickstarter, not Something Awful. If he has something to share, he should share it with the investors, not his chums. Frankly, his taste in food and human rights have nothing to do with how he makes a game (so I don't really know why you even mentioned that). But his communication with the supporters of the game should be available to everyone. Unless Something Awful is a place where only experienced game developers go, I don't see why they are even a factor.

I agree, and it would be amusing to try to hold Josh's feet to the fire for his SomethingAwful favoritism. Seriously, you could email Feargus about this and there's a good chance he'd force him to stop doing that.

 

[suejak]

Why the hell would you do that? Let the man talk to who he wants to. I definitely wouldn't poke around for design ideas in an official capacity on my company's official forum.

 

[Roguey]

Ultimately his responsibilities for this game are to the people who supported them through Kickstarter, not Something Awful. If he has something to share, he should share it with the investors, not his chums. Frankly, his taste in food and human rights have nothing to do with how he makes a game (so I don't really know why you even mentioned that). But his communication with the supporters of the game should be available to everyone. Unless Something Awful is a place where only experienced game developers go, I don't see why they are even a factor.

I agree, and it would be amusing to try to hold Josh's feet to the fire for his SomethingAwful favoritism. Seriously, you could email Feargus about this and there's a good chance he'd force him to stop doing that.

What an absurd complaint. Though I'm only saying that because I'm concerned he may just stop talking altogether except through official Kickstarter updates and I'm already spoiled for knowing so much about Eternity than I do any of the other projects I've backed which have mostly been silent (though I haven't been stalking their developers through multiple fora so...). I mean do we know for certain if the likes of Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, or Dead State have full missing? They've all been in development longer too.

 

[Infinitron]

Why the hell would you do that?

Spiteful forum rivalry, obviously.

I mean do we know for certain if the likes of Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, or Dead State have full missing? They've all been in development longer too.

I don't see how you can not have missing in a game based on firearms. That would be a bit too ridiculous.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I'm a feminist and a vegetarian myself. Why wouldn't I support such a person?

Typical woman reasoning: This person likes the same colors as I do. I shall support this person in any endeavours and worship the ground it walks upon.

 

[Blaine]

I'm a feminist and a vegetarian myself. Why wouldn't I support such a person?

I'm not saying you shouldn't support such a person—but if he's impressionable enough to buy into the notion that feminism is still an equal rights movement (especially as a male), there's no telling what other zany ideas he might come up with... such as the belief that "players" (who?) don't want "all-or-nothing" damage resolution mechanics.

Ultimately his responsibilities for this game are to the people who supported them through Kickstarter, not Something Awful. If he has something to share, he should share it with the investors, not his chums. Frankly, his taste in food and human rights have nothing to do with how he makes a game (so I don't really know why you even mentioned that). But his communication with the supporters of the game should be available to everyone. Unless Something Awful is a place where only experienced game developers go, I don't see why they are even a factor.

I tend to agree with suejak on this one: He probably feels freer to relax and express his thoughts/discuss his opinions through a more obscure venue. If he broadcasts them to the Obsidian forums or Kickstarter, he'll be drowned by a sea of screaming, functionally illiterate imbeciles.

 

[Roguey]

I don't see how you can not have missing in a game based on firearms. That would be a bit too ridiculous.

The same way you exclude missing from melee-based combat: make it about chipping away the health. "Oh your bullet didn't miss, it glanced against them and did 1 damage."

Also there are firearms and ranged weapons in Eternity.

Blaine http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=341