Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Surf Solar]

So far the only "homage" to the IE games is the graphic style....

 

[Infinitron]

I'm tired of repeating myself here. Just reread Tigranes' posts ITT, think carefully, make up your mind and shut up.

 

[Captain Shrek]

It was earlier in the thread, but now there is misses, glancing blows, and hits. Hits = the calculation of damage is solely dependent on DT and other secondary processes, so, a 'normal hit'; Glancing Blows = your damage is already scaled down before those processes, e.g. you do 50% damage, which can be further mitigated by DT, etc; Misses = you miss entirely and deal no damage, a 'normal miss'.

My argument is that this represents not a half-way compromise between the IE system and Sawyer's original proposal, but a system that is much closer to the IE system, and makes only a small (and I think, positive) change. The reason is, as I said before, a no-miss system qualitatively changes the intuitive and mathematical basis of combat. The shift from a system where you 'sometimes hit' to a system where you 'always hit' makes the hit/miss calculation qualitatively identical to other systems like DT; e.g. there is no longer any difference between an enemy with 5 DT, and an enemy with 0 DT that you miss against every single time, if your hit damage is 10 and your miss damage is 5. In other words, a dodge character becomes mathematically identical to a block character, which intorduces an obvious poverty to combat variety. In the compromise proposal, this qualitative difference that was present in the IE system is maintained; at the same time, it is actually further variegated through the introduction of glancing blows.

Short version: as far as we understand it, it seems to me that Sawyer's original proposal was a reduction of a key qualitative difference and thus combat / tactical variety; the compromise actually can retain and enhance it.

wut

 

[Mrowak]

PnPfags gonna PnPfag.

As it is every change they are going to make in the tired old formula (not that I oppose that by principle) strikes me as gimmicky, rather than profound.

Essentially it comes across as "Let's make D&D combat but without XXX and with YYY. Wow, we are so original!!". Except that such changes when implemented in the context of a larger system can:

a) be out of place

b) undermine the existing (Infinity Engine) formula.

The problem is that at this point they cannot really be very experimentative. The clock's ticking, and time for extravagant solutions was up the moment Kickstarter campaign was over.

 

[Infinitron]

The problem is that at this point they cannot really be very experimentative. The clock's ticking, and time for extravagant solutions was up the moment Kickstarter campaign was over.

Nonsense, the game is still in pre-production. Now is the time to do experiments.

As it is every change they are going to make in the tired old formula (not that I oppose that by principle) strikes me as gimmicky, rather than profound.

I don't see how you can say this when the motivation behind every single change has been well explained by Josh.

 

[Mrowak]

The problem is that at this point they cannot really be very experimentative. The clock's ticking, and time for extravagant solutions was up the moment Kickstarter campaign was over.

Nonsense, the game is still in pre-production. Now is the time to do experiments.

I know. But it's already January and it still is in pre-production? It seems it's gonna stay there for some months to come, seeing how they dick around. That's what you get when you don't have a clear plan in mind. You waste time and bottleneck the entire development team.

As it is every change they are going to make in the tired old formula (not that I oppose that by principle) strikes me as gimmicky, rather than profound.

I don't see how you can say this when the motivation behind every single change has been well explained by Josh.

It wasn't explained well enough. It as "I just think A, B or MOBA do this better so let's put this in". That is a pretty poor explanation in my book.

 

[suejak]

I know. But it's already January and it still is in pre-production? It seems it's gonna stay there for some months to come, seeing how they dick around. That's what you get when you don't have a clear plan in mind. You waste time and bottleneck the entire development team.

You saw the part where they have the new combat system working in-engine?

 

[Infinitron]

It wasn't explained well enough. It as "I just think A, B or MOBA do this better so let's put this in". That is a pretty poor explanation in my book.

Did you read this? This is what his changes are for.

 

[oscar]

Yes the first thing people think when they're promised a game that's paying homage to and marking the return of IE-styled games is League of Legends/MMO combat

If you don't take the combat system of them, what else is left? Isometric view-point? Pre-rendered backgrounds? People using swords? Sawyer should have been honest that he wanted the four million for his crack at Dragon Age.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Yes the first thing people think when they're promised a game that's paying homage to and marking the return of IE-styled games is League of Legends/MMO combat

If you don't take the combat system of them, what else is left? Isometric view-point? Pre-rendered backgrounds? People using swords? Sawyer should have been honest that he wanted the four million for his crack at Dragon Age.

 

[suejak]

Real-time with pause? Party combat with 6 members? Full micromanagement? Formations?

Fuck it, you're right. It's not IE unless you're rolling D20 against THAC0.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I'm sure that many people already mentioned this over the 5 hundred pages of this highly prestigious and codex-worthy thread, but I just can't wait till that game comes out and is naturally the same average to shit title that Obsidian always makes. Well, the fact that this forum seems to be full of people that actually believe stuff like FNV to be great may lessen the shitstorm a bit, but I still feel it's gonna be glorious.

 

[Infinitron]

Yes the first thing people think when they're promised a game that's paying homage to and marking the return of IE-styled games is League of Legends/MMO combat

If you don't take the combat system of them, what else is left? Isometric view-point? Pre-rendered backgrounds? People using swords? Sawyer should have been honest that he wanted the four million for his crack at Dragon Age.

Last time:

Six fully controllable party members, arranged in formations.
Isometric.
2D backgrounds.
PC exclusive.
Text heavy, without full voice acting.
Spell memorization/preparation mechanic (not mana like popamole games)
Obvious equivalents of all D&D races.
Obvious equivalents of all D&D classes (not just Warrior, Rogue, Mage like Dragon Age and other popamole RPGs but also Clerics, Paladins, Bards, etc)
Rich assortment of monsters (not just the same monsters repeated again and again with palette shifts like popamole games)

This is not MOBA. This is not Dragon Age. This is the Infinity Engine experience.

 

[suejak]

I have no idea what full micromanagement means.

Fallout/Arcanum don't let you micromanage your followers. KOTOR, Dragon Age, etc, have a much clunkier micromanagement system due to the camera, so they tend to rely much more on follower scripting for combat.

In IE, you have a full strategic view of the battle and simply click on the party member to give him direct orders, like a traditional RTS game.

 

[oscar]

Real-time with pause? Party combat with 6 members? Full micromanagement? Formations?

Fuck it, you're right. It's not IE unless you're rolling D20 against THAC0.

Yeah pretty much. Use of the D&D rule-set was the common thread between them. Silent Storm has all those things you listed yet not many people would call it a homage to the Infinity Engine games.

Six party fully controllable party members, arranged in formations.
Isometric.
2D backgrounds.
PC exclusive.
Text heavy, without full voice acting.
Spell memorization/preparation mechanic (not mana like popamole games)
Obvious equivalents of all D&D races.
Obvious equivalents of all D&D classes. (not just Warrior, Rogue, Mage like Dragon Age and other popamole RPGs but also Clerics, Paladins, Bards, etc)
Rich assortment of monsters. (not just the same monsters repeated again and again with palette shifts like popamole games)

This is not MOBA. This is not Dragon Age. This is the Infinity Engine experience.

Pretty much every vaguely RPG game under the sun uses dwarves and elves and druids (hell, fantasy in general does) and features large assortments of monsters and spells. Likewise the Gold Box games use six party members yet are completely different to IE. You might as well say "This is the fantasy cRPG experience" those features are so common. Change the D&D ruleset combat for one centred upon ability cooldowns and you have a completely different beast.

Scrap the combat and all that's left in common is fireballs, orcs and isometric view point.

 

[Infinitron]

those features are so common

Common, really? In 2013?

Yeah pretty much.

 

[suejak]

oscar Is Silent Storm RTwP? Is it fixed-perspective isometric with 2D backgrounds?

Are the Gold Box games RTwP? Are they fixed-perspective isometric with 2D backgrounds?

 

[roshan]

Real-time with pause? Party combat with 6 members? Full micromanagement? Formations?

Fuck it, you're right. It's not IE unless you're rolling D20 against THAC0.

Because formations were the heart and soul of IE combat What about allowing people to DIE IN BATTLE?

 

[oscar]

Use of the D&D rule-set is a more binding element than fixed-persepctive isometric with 2D backgrounds. I don't think people pledged with the thought "Woo finally a new game with fixed-perspective isometric 2D backgrounds".

 

[suejak]

"and RTwP 6-member party combat with formations and full micromanagement in a fantasy setting"? Yeah, probably not.

 

[Roguey]

You typically try to stick to the facts.

I am.

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.
Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success. The world map is dotted with unique locations and wilderness ripe for exploration and questing. You’ll create your own character and collect companions along the way – taking him or her not just through this story, but, with your continued support, through future adventures. You will engage in dialogues that are deep, and offer many choices to determine the fate of you and your party. …and you'll experience a story that explores mature themes and presents you with complex, difficult choices to shape how your story plays out.
We are excited at this chance to create something new, yet reminiscent of those great games and we want you to be a part of it as well.
...
We need to raise $1.1 million to fund an experienced team to do this right. We are asking for more than a lot of the other Kickstarter projects and that’s because we are not only making a game, we are creating a whole new world. That means a new RPG system, entirely new art, new characters and animation and whole lot of lore and dialogue.

Not seeing the part where it says "Yeah it's going to have THAC0 and shit."

 

[Volrath]

Real-time with pause? Party combat with 6 members? Full micromanagement? Formations?

Fuck it, you're right. It's not IE unless you're rolling D20 against THAC0.

Because formations were the heart and soul of IE combat What about allowing people to DIE IN BATTLE?

Eh P:E has permadeath.

 

[Lancehead]

Use of the D&D rule-set is a more binding element than fixed-persepctive isometric with 2D backgrounds. I don't think people pledged with the thought "Woo finally a new game with fixed-perspective isometric 2D backgrounds".

D&D was never going to be used. So I don't see how people could've pledged thinking it might be.

 

[roshan]

Real-time with pause? Party combat with 6 members? Full micromanagement? Formations?

Fuck it, you're right. It's not IE unless you're rolling D20 against THAC0.

Because formations were the heart and soul of IE combat What about allowing people to DIE IN BATTLE?

Eh P:E has permadeath.

Yes, but only in expert mode. And before you get to permadie, you have to endure at least 10 autoresurrections, since apparently spells and abilities can reduce HP loss. Fuck that shit, I want to be able to permadie ANYTIME, in ANY BATTLE.

 

[SwiftCrack]

Formations were the dumbest shit in IE games.