Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

stuff

Oh God, I now think Grimoire Slam is great design just so I don't get associated with people that retarded.

 

[Grunker]

Why the fuck this outrage over a fucking ability? Torment had Lim-Lims, I'm sure this game will survive a Book-smacking wizard. I know I'm the frontrunner for the whole "be critical"-approach, but this shit is retarded and honestly kind of trivial.

 

[Excidium]

stuff

Oh God, I now think Grimoire Slam is great design just so I don't get associated with people that retarded.

There's nothing I despise more than those "muh super serious mature RPG for adults-only no fun allowed" types.

 

[Excidium]

Why the fuck this outrage over a fucking ability? Torment had Lim-Lims, I'm sure this game will survive a Book-smacking wizard. I know I'm the frontrunner for the whole "be critical"-approach, but this shit is retarded and honestly kind of trivial.

What the hell do lim-lims have to do with anything?

 

[Grunker]

Why the fuck this outrage over a fucking ability? Torment had Lim-Lims, I'm sure this game will survive a Book-smacking wizard. I know I'm the frontrunner for the whole "be critical"-approach, but this shit is retarded and honestly kind of trivial.

What the hell do lim-lims have to do with anything?

Well, nothing really, I guess, it's just 3:30AM and I'm fucking tired. My point was though, that the types in Infinitron's pic were probably of the opinion that Torment was pretty mature and adult and stuffies, and considering the amount of "LOL!" that game had, I'm sure Project: Eternity will survive a slam with a weighty tome or two.

 

[Shadenuat]

Classic verisimilitude schtick. People will never truly accept Clark Kent's glasses trope, just as they will always find hitting monsters with books awkward, even if there is a bunch of multicolored lim-lim's running around as pets breathing fire in the same screen. Because lim-lim's are just fiction, but we know how books are used and how they should be treated.
It does't mean anything of course, but people's attention always stick to things like that, and it's funny how Sawyer defends the ability, I mean, there's even "don't like it, don't use it" argument there somewhere

 

[Rake]

Kind of bizarre that Sawyer thinks its bizarre to view Grimoire Slam as potentially pulpy and slapsticky in tone. Since using a book as a weapon is pretty silly. Not bad silly necessarily, but definitely lighthearted and highly stylized. Even the name is reminiscent of goofy fighting games. Grimoiiirrrree SLAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!

Also I got the impression that the Grimoire slam was the wizards primary (or only) ability for exiting engagement, so, although technically optional, is pretty stupid to not take. So the argument that the player who doesn't like it doesn't have to take it is pretty weak.

Don;t think so. My wizard will have stoneskin . Who cares if he takes a lousy AoO if he decides to disangage(ignoring the fact that he shouldn't have gone close to enemy fighters in the first place)

 

[Tigranes]

Oh, we're still talking about Grimoire Slam?

OK, TTYL

 

[uaciaut]

This is probably some of the best/worst asspulls ever I have heard regarding computer games. Dude, you want a cool looking/sounding ability just say that it is for that reason and not supposed to be realistic. Don't try to actually justify it.

Because magic is realistic. The whole point of that reply was to explain how using grimoires for physical attack someone because they're magically-filled batteries made some sense. Comparing that to a real life situation where you'd hit someone with a book makes no sense because you can't fucking cast magic in real life. Unless you're saying you can :/

Why would we bash it? It is JUST a mechanic to not overpower wizards. Sure, if someone DEFENDS it calling it realistic they are dumb. But as an implementation it works and that is what matters. Not to mention it is NOT completely absurd like hitting a guy on the head with your most prized possession. I call strawman.

This made me laugh. You're trying to call out on something because it's not realistic (or at least when someone is trying to explain how it makes SENSE in the context you bash him for doing it for "realistic" reasons) and then you go ahead and say that.

 

[Excidium]

DROP IT SON

 

[J_C]

Because lim-lim's are just fiction, but we know how books are used and how they should be treated.

If we go by that thought, books are made of paper and only be used for reading, yet we use them for casting magic in PE. That is not a problem? but charging them with magic and unleashing that power with a slam in the face is wrong?

I also don't agree with the notion that having a not totally serious talent means that the game will be unmature. As others said, Torment also had some funny stuff, fuck, the whole existence of Morte is comical.

 

[hiver]

As others said, Torment also had some funny stuff, fuck, the whole existence of Morte is comical.

Was it?

 

[Andyman Messiah]

As others said, Torment also had some funny stuff, fuck, the whole existence of Morte is comical.

Was it?

Pretty sure J_C needs to replay Torment, Beethoven-style. Chain the fucker to the computer!

 

[J_C]

As others said, Torment also had some funny stuff, fuck, the whole existence of Morte is comical.

Was it?

I mean he was joking a lot, wanting to have sex with the zombie ladies and stuff like that. These were very well written of course, but still wasn't serious. There is place for a grimoire slam in a serious universe.

 

[hiver]

Point being - Morte wasnt a simple comical gimmick at all, while grimoire slam is.

There is a place for comedy in a "serious" universe. A comedy can be the most serious thing of all, or used to talk about most serious and hard things one could imagine.
That doesnt mean comedy is cheap.
Quite the opposite.

 

[CappenVarra]

This Grimoire Smash uproar made me think:

If AD&D didn't exist, and Josh Sawyer had just invented the concept of Vancian magic on his own, with spell memorization and spells that disappear from your memory after one casting - you guys would be totally bashing him for it.

Vancian magic is almost as ridiculous as smacking somebody with a spellbook. It's very "gamist" and not really "plausible" at all.

You know, the way you flail your lack of knowledge about the literature the concept originates in around is most... unprestigious.

Here, let me help you with that:

https://www.google.com/search?q=mazirian+the+magician

Without reading the sources (this is one of multiple stories), any claims that Vancian magic is ridiculous, gamist, etc. just make you sound illiterate. Of course, only you know if that bothers you enough to change it

 

[hiver]

Vancian magic is gamist and ridiculous in its way of implementing its core concepts about magic - which are right and proper - into fucking scribbles, spells and books - which end up completely defeating the core concept.

 

[Infinitron]

This Grimoire Smash uproar made me think:

If AD&D didn't exist, and Josh Sawyer had just invented the concept of Vancian magic on his own, with spell memorization and spells that disappear from your memory after one casting - you guys would be totally bashing him for it.

Vancian magic is almost as ridiculous as smacking somebody with a spellbook. It's very "gamist" and not really "plausible" at all.

You know, the way you flail your lack of knowledge about the literature the concept originates in around is most... unprestigious.

Here, let me help you with that:

https://www.google.com/search?q=mazirian the magician

Without reading the sources (this is one of multiple stories), any claims that Vancian magic is ridiculous, gamist, etc. just make you sound illiterate. Of course, only you know if that bothers you enough to change it

Doesn't matter where it originated from, it's still gamey as fuck. "Loading up" spells in your mage's mind like ammunition, really?

 

[Brzęczyszczykiewicz]

Because for example Morte's Litany of Curses is not silly at all. Flying skull attacks enemy spellcasters with vulgarisms.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I've been neglecting the codex and pretty much everything else for a week or so (I've discovered Mount and Blade - man, that game is like crack), and I completely missed on this whole book-smashing to disengage from enemy until now. So, here is the (completely uncalled and probably unwanted) summary of my reaction to it:

Grimoire slam? Ha ha ha!

Oh wait, he's serious. FUUUUUUUU...


But it looks like it was intended as an optional technique to learn for wizards, so it's not that bad. It's just silly. Anyway, here's the thing that I don't get - why invent abilities to break off from melee at all? Why not just implement a kind of retreat manoeuvre that anyone can try? Like, clicking on the ground while in melee will have the character back away slowly from the opponent without lowering his defences (or even gaining defence as he concentrates on defending without attacking). Of course, there is nothing stopping the opponent from pursuing (except perhaps other characters that could then get attacks of opportunity against him). On the other hand, double clicking on the ground will have the character just turn around and run there - fast, but possibly risky.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Crude editing skills aside, i think what most of us think (who experienced our videogame childhoods in the 80´s and 90´s) when we hear the word slam associated with anything is something like this...

It´s not about the mechanic itself for me, it´s more about the name behind it, sounds ridiculous in my mind.

 

[J_C]

Point being - Morte wasnt a simple comical gimmick at all, while grimoire slam is.

There is a place for comedy in a "serious" universe. A comedy can be the most serious thing of all, or used to talk about most serious and hard things one could imagine.
That doesnt mean comedy is cheap.
Quite the opposite.

I don't think grimoire slam is any more comical gimmick than Morte. Sawyer portrays it as a simple, useful ability, not as a joke. If you think it is, than the problem is with you. I don't see it funny.

What is funny is that we are arguing about an animation and a name. Because the effect coud be the same if it is a blast from a staff or a spell, it is just portrayed as a hit with a book.

 

[hiver]

Because for example Morte's Litany of Curses is not silly at all. Flying skull attacks enemy spellcasters with vulgarisms.

it was finally crafted and studied insults, not just vulgarisms you ignorant, shit faced, cdprojekt cock sucking, degenerate slavic sub-human potato newfag.

Point being - Morte wasnt a simple comical gimmick at all, while grimoire slam is.

There is a place for comedy in a "serious" universe. A comedy can be the most serious thing of all, or used to talk about most serious and hard things one could imagine.
That doesnt mean comedy is cheap.
Quite the opposite.

I don't think grimoire slam is any more comical gimmick than Morte. Sawyer portrays it as a simple, useful ability, not as a joke. If you think it is, than the problem is with you. I don't see it funny.
What is funny is that we are arguing about an animation and a name. Because the effect coud be the same if it is a blast from a staff or a spell, it is just portrayed as a hit with a book.

No, i think the problem is in you. Actually.
Morte was "more comical" only in his expressions and behavior - in a good way. It was smart, well written comedy completely in tune with character and his background. It made sense and it was funny - and useful.

GS is a gimmick that is not funny at all.


Also, thats not funny at all - as we are not arguing about animation and a name just by themselves. We are arguing about an idea. A concept.

 

[DraQ]

I thought book thumping was more of a clerics' domain.

 

[Infinitron]

degenerate slavic

Umm, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you hiver