Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Lilura]

PE's system doesn't need multiclassing because the core classes are flexible enough in and of themselves.

Do you have a citation for this, I'd like to read up on it.

Well, Numenera should cover this for the people into that stuff, anyway. I loved PS:T back in the day, but I think BG2 and Fallout 2 had the right amount of dialogue.

It kind of works if you see the game a direct continuation of BG1, but as a standalone product that's just not good storytelling.

To be fair, Bioware intended the Bhaalspawn saga to be three-part (ToB being the third) and to be taken as a whole.

 

[Rake]

The problem with BG2 isn't that it's too big.

The problem with BG2 isn't even that Chapter 2 is too big. The chapters don't really matter, it's a kind of open world game in practice.

The problem is that it starts you off by dumping you in Waukeen's Promenade instead of gradually building up the game's pace the same way BG1 did (from Friendly Arm Inn to Beregost to Nashkel and finally to Baldur's Gate). It kind of works if you see the game a direct continuation of BG1, but as a standalone product that's just not good storytelling.

Why? There is no need to gradually build the game's pace. And BG was good only after you got into the city.(and that is way more common criticism than Athkatla's content by the way)
I don't have a problem with P:E having more spread content than BG2, but as a narrative devise dumping you in the middle of things is more interesting than a slow start gradually building up the game's pace.
And BG1 pace was worse than 2

I disagree. There's always a need for pacing. By the way, I think you'll find not everybody agrees with you that BG was good only after you got to the city. I've seen people, even here on the Codex, that ragequit the game at that point.

Not everyone, but then not everyone agrees that BG2 is too complex, or that it has too much content. Also, Athkatla > Baldur's Gate as cities go.

 

[Infinitron]

PE's system doesn't need multiclassing because the core classes are flexible enough in and of themselves.

Do you have a citation for this, I'd like to read up on it.

No. As far as I know, multiclassing hasn't been ruled out, but the way they're describing PE's systems it sounds like won't be a good fit. Roguey can tell you more.

Not everyone, but then not everyone agrees that BG2 is too complex, or that it has too much content. Also, Athkatla > Baldur's Gate as cities go.

And not everyone shares in the common Codex idea that the ultimate location for an RPG is "HUGE CITIES WITH TONS OF SIDEQUESTS OMG ITZ HEAVAN".

Would Fallout have been a better game if started in the Hub, rather than introducing you to the setting gradually via Shady Sands -> Junktown -> Hub?

 

[Rake]

PE's system doesn't need multiclassing because the core classes are flexible enough in and of themselves.

Do you have a citation for this, I'd like to read up on it.

Well, Numenera should cover this for the people into that stuff, anyway. I loved PS:T back in the day, but I think BG2 and Fallout 2 had the right amount of dialogue.

No, too little. P:T had the right amount of dialog..

 

[Lilura]

No, too little. P:T had the right amount of dialog..

Fallout 2 destroys Planescape: Torment as a role-playing game. It has the right balance of world, lore, combat and dialogue, IMO. Pretty sure even Avellone agrees that PS:T had too much dialogue (I know he agrees that Fallout 2 is the better RPG).

 

[Sensuki]

I also think a lot of people are mixing quests and encounters together.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

No, too little. P:T had the right amount of dialog..

Fallout 2 destroys Planescape: Torment as a role-playing game.

Nah. Planescape: Torment is leagues ahead in the writing department compared to both F1 & 2.

 

[sea]

To answer these questions, we must first contemplate, what is an RPG?

 

[Infinitron]

Mea culpa: A few hundred pages ago in this thread, I expressed disbelief that PE would have an Age of Exploration/Colonialism theme, but it looks like I was completely wrong.

 

[imweasel]

So Athkatla in Baldur's Gate 2 has too many quests lines, and is a bad game because of this, but New Vegas in Fallout: New Vegas does not have too many quest lines and is a great game?

What a fucking moronic hypocrite Sawyer is. He knows damn well that New Vegas city is loaded with quests too. Go to the Boomers, go to the mountain lodging, go to Hoover dam, do this, do that. You don't have to do them all, just like you don't have to do all the quests in Baldur's Gate 2.

Even Bioware thought Athkatla had too much content.

Because it led to chapter disparity. Doesn't make the game bad though, not at all. Even if Sawyer says the opposite.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

So Athkatla in Baldur's Gate 2 has too many quests lines, and is a bad game because of this, but New Vegas in Fallout: New Vegas does not have too many quest lines and is a great game?

What a fucking moronic hypocrite Sawyer is. He knows damn well that New Vegas city is loaded with quests too. Go to the Boomers, go to the mountain lodging, go to Hoover dam, do this, do that. You don't have to do them all, just like you don't have to do all the quests in Baldur's Gate 2.

Even Bioware thought Athkatla had too much content.

Because it led to chapter disparity. Doesn't make the game bad though, not at all. Even if Sawyer says the opposite.

Yeah, but Jew Vegas doesn't have its quests all in one city, to be fair.

 

[Lilura]

Would Fallout have been a better game if started in the Hub, rather than introducing you to the setting gradually via Shady Sands -> Junktown -> Hub?

I don't think it matters if you get a gradual reveal of a setting or are landed smack bang in the thick of it. A good RPG is a good RPG.

 

[Cromwell]

No, too little. P:T had the right amount of dialog..

Fallout 2 destroys Planescape: Torment as a role-playing game. It has the right balance of world, lore, combat and dialogue, IMO. Pretty sure even Avellone agrees that PS:T had too much dialogue (I know he agrees that Fallout 2 is the better RPG).

That doesnt mean you have to cut on the dialogues or the writing and story in general, it just means you have to balance them out with the rest. Planescape had to few from the latter (and it was bad atleast imho) thats why someone could find to much of the former (dialogue writing story bla). So arguing that you only should have x amount of dialogue for balance sake is idiotic. You should argue that you have to keep the balance and when you have this much text and story and everything else in this corner you ahve to balance it out.

 

[Lilura]

Where are all the Fallout fans, they gone to NMA or mass suicide when Bethesda got the license?

I would actually be greatly appreciative of Sawyer if it turns out he designed the quests for NV. That was indeed a real good job. I endured the shit combat JUST to finish the quests.

I haven't yet played FNV, the Bethesda engine turns me off.

 

[imweasel]

Yeah, but Jew Vegas doesn't have its quests all in one city, to be fair.

The game has over 200 hours of gameplay, the entirety of it is not in Athkatla (you go to the underdark too for example).

And as Lord Andre already pointed out with his excellent post:

Chill everybody ! I got this.

The people that think BG2 city had too much quests and it was confusing are the same retards who think turn-based is too slow and boring.

Go to gamebanshee, then turn to bg2 walkthrough and browse every district. Count the quests. No single district has more than 4 quests. Waukeen's Promenade has only one, Graveyard only has the buried man and the paladin with a dead child and so on. Besides that you have some companions like Korgan or Jaheira with 1 quest each in the city. And on top of that add 1 quest for the main plot.

Where is this density ? An average of 3-4 quests per district ? Get the fuck outta' here !

Retards are confused because most of those quests are not standard <get quest from A, go to B, then back to A, done>

Instead, BG2 city quests imply A,B,C,D,E zig-zagging across the city with plot twists and shit. e.g. COMPLEX, e.g. Are you retards actually arguing that quests should be simple
A to B, B to A affairs ? Have you lost what little mind you had ? Fags.

 

[logrus]

I'm expecting around 10-20 hours play time. Maybe 25 hours, if we're lucky.

Fix'ed. Kickstarter game and all that.

Main quest, 2 cities, megadungeon, stronghold, companions - however it's done I can't imagine doing all that stuff in 10hours. Speed run of main quest - possibly, but I expect 50+ hours for exploration approach.

 

[Jaesun]

New Vegas is enjoyable, but eventually the absolute shit engine finally ruins the game. Even with all the good cRPG mechanics Obsidian did for NV, that shit engine ruins it.

If only Bethesda would have Obsidian do an isometric turn-based Fallout spin-off.

 

[Sensuki]

I can't even stomach playing Morrowind because I dislike the Bethesda engine so much.

 

[Cursed Beaver]

The problem with BG2 isn't that it's too big.

The problem with BG2 isn't even that Chapter 2 is too big. The chapters don't really matter, it's a kind of open world game in practice.

The problem is that it starts you off by dumping you in Waukeen's Promenade instead of gradually building up the game's pace the same way BG1 did (from Friendly Arm Inn to Beregost to Nashkel and finally to Baldur's Gate). It kind of works if you see the game as a direct continuation of BG1, but for a standalone product that's just not good storytelling.

No, it just doesn't force you to do all the stuff in a particuliar linear order. Most of the quest in act 2 are optionnal anyway, and if you focus on just reaching Imoen, you can skip to act 3 pretty quickly.

Dumping you in the middle of this large agglomeration was good pacing. We don't need the same regular generic pacing model.

 

[Infinitron]

Dumping you in the middle of this large agglomeration was good pacing.

Sorry, but it just isn't. It's okay that you think that model is awesome and immersive - I do too, despite recognizing its weaknesses - but Obsidian is a storyfag kind of developer so they do care about these things more than most.

 

[Rake]

Dumping you in the middle of this large agglomeration was good pacing.

Sorry, but it just isn't. It's okay that you think that model is awesome and immersive - I do too, despite recognizing its weaknesses - but Obsidian is a storyfag kind of developer so they do care about these things more than most.

It's main weakness is that it's not accesible. Since when that is a bad thing? In BG2 it makes sense in the plot, and BG1 with it's pacing has terrible story compaired to 2.
Dumping you in the middle of this large agglomeration would be good pacing if Bioware had put compairable content in the other areas, some of it available only in later chapters.

 

[Sensuki]

imweasel are you posting as 'Helm' in the PE forums? lol

 

[imweasel]

imweasel are you posting as 'Helm' in the PE forums? lol

Nope. What makes you think that? Or just give me a link if you got one handy.

 

[Sensuki]

http://forums.obsidian.net/index.ph...ilters[forums][searchInKey]=&userMode=content

Kind of a mirror discussion as to what's going on here, I just thought it might have been you trolling because some of the stuff he's saying about Sawyer is pretty much what you've been criticizing Sawyer about on here

 

[imweasel]

That's funny. :D Hmm, might be a codex reader or something. I'll check it out.