Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

apparently the proposed health mechanic and some skill check screens = Darklands

 

[Liston]

What? They aren't going to have the same quest density as BG2? Unbelievable, everybody knows that the only way to make good rpg is to copy everithing from BG2, because it is flawless. Does anybody know if they are going to have Minsc in the game? If the answer is no than it is obviously going to be shit and I request refund.

 

[Sensuki]

BG2 had great encounters. I think a lot of people are mixing that up with quests.

"That Guarded Compound Quest"

oh wait

On that topic though, what were some of your favourite BG2 quests ?

Cult of the Unseeing Eye one was one of my favs.

 

[Liston]

Yeah. Because everyone here is arguing that BG2 had the best quest design .

No you are just shitposting about irrelevant shit. Sawyer (and some other people) don't like some things in BG2, so fucking what? This could be a big deal only if you think that there is no other way to make a good rpg.

 

[imweasel]

What? They aren't going to have the same quest density as BG2? Unbelievable, everybody knows that the only way to make good rpg is to copy everithing from BG2, because it is flawless. Does anybody know if they are going to have Minsc in the game? If the answer is no than it is obviously going to be shit and I request refund.

There is always room for improvement. People are just arguing that there is no need to strongly critcize BG2 because of it's quest design.

 

[imweasel]

No you are just shitposting about irrelevant shit. Sawyer (and some other people) don't like some things in BG2, so fucking what? This could be a big deal only if you think that there is no other way to make a good rpg.

Sawyer said that he does not like BG2, for many reasons actually. Which is fine, if you are not a designer on Project Eternity at least.

 

[Sensuki]

I think Liston misinterpreted what you said

 

[tuluse]

The good thing about BG2 was all the stuff to do. However, it was really the predecessor to the current "theme park" style of RPGs we get now. There is no real coherency or structure to it. It was just a bunch of people to talk to and things to kill. It's kind of nice to play even now because there is a certain, I'm not sure what the word I want is... innocence or honesty to the area design. Compare to modern Bethesda games were they make feeble attempts to make it feel like a real world when it is just a bunch of people to talk to and things to kill.

I completely understand why Sawyer thinks this is a flaw in design because he's all about setting coherency. Also compare New Vegas to BG2 and you'll see vast increase in sophistication of area design.

 

[Liston]

Really? Can you show me one post in this context relating to my opinion which mentions sawyer negatively?

It doesn't matter, you (as in all of you) are arguing about what somebody didn't like in BG2. What does that have to do with P:E? Anyway sorry, I shouldn't have said anything I'm only adding to the noise.

 

[tuluse]

1) Did Sawyer do the Quests for NV. No one has answered this yet.
2) BG1/2 with all their shortcomings are games 10-12 years old. It would be a travesty to compare them to games of today with such a critical outlook. They were made in times when the understanding of what irks gamers was vastly incomplete. Not to mention these games are some of the progenators of the FUCKING IDEA that content should be designed instead ot spread around.

1) Sawyer did the top level design for New Vegas, I don't know what specific quests he worked on if any. I must note that Sawyer is not criticizing the quests of BG2 just how and when you get the quests.

2) Sawyer is making a game right now that is a spiritual successor to those games, how can you not compare them to modern games to see what you should do and avoid doing?

 

[imweasel]

The good thing about BG2 was all the stuff to do. However, it was really the predecessor to the current "theme park" style of RPGs we get now. There is no real coherency or structure to it. It was just a bunch of people to talk to and things to kill. It's kind of nice to play even now because there is a certain, I'm not sure what the word I want is... innocence or honesty to the area design. Compare to modern Bethesda games were they make feeble attempts to make it feel like a real world when it is just a bunch of people to talk to and things to kill.

But... Sawyer loves Skyrim.

I completely understand why Sawyer thinks this is a flaw in design because he's all about setting coherency. Also compare New Vegas to BG2 and you'll see vast increase in sophistication of area design.

I also saw a massive budget increase. And shitty Bethesda style RPG mechanics.

 

[tuluse]

BG2 was a AAA title of it's time, it would have had as big of a budget as any pc game in the 90s.

 

[Sensuki]

To be honest, so many people like Skyrim that I can't really fault anyone for doing so. I guess the reality is that not everyone is like me and doesn't like or doesn't play a game on principle. The only AAA games that I will play in the foreseeable future are The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077.

If you asked Sawyer what he doesn't like about Skyrim I'm sure you'd get a good answer.

 

[imweasel]

If you asked Sawyer what he doesn't like about Skyrim I'm sure you'd get a good answer.

I'd rather ask him why he likes Skyrim and dislikes Baldur's Gate actually.

 

[Infinitron]

Dumping you in the middle of this large agglomeration was good pacing.

Sorry, but it just isn't. It's okay that you think that model is awesome and immersive - I do too, despite recognizing its weaknesses - but Obsidian is a storyfag kind of developer so they do care about these things more than most.

It's main weakness is that it's not accesible. Since when that is a bad thing? In BG2 it makes sense in the plot, and BG1 with it's pacing has terrible story compaired to 2.
Dumping you in the middle of this large agglomeration would be good pacing if Bioware had put compairable content in the other areas, some of it available only in later chapters.

Eh, neither BG1 nor BG2 had a particularly good story. I guess you could say BG2's was a bit more interesting/less stereotypical, but that's what sequels do.

http://forums.obsidian.net/index.ph...ilters[forums][searchInKey]=&userMode=content

Kind of a mirror discussion as to what's going on here, I just thought it might have been you trolling because some of the stuff he's saying about Sawyer is pretty much what you've been criticizing Sawyer about on here

Hah, that does sound like him. For fuck's sake Drog

 

[Bradylama]

To be honest, so many people like Skyrim that I can't really fault anyone for doing so. I guess the reality is that not everyone is like me and doesn't like or doesn't play a game on principle. The only AAA games that I will play in the foreseeable future are The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077.

The problem is that Skyrim is the only open-world FPS/RPG with the kind of production value that helps people forgive its faults. Every other game like it is ass. New Vegas was pretty good but it wasn't great, and it had a lion's share of faults. If your themes aren't fully developed until the player shells out 40 more bucks on story DLCs, there's a serious problem.

 

[imweasel]

Neither BG1 nor BG2 had particularly good stories.

 

[Gozma]

Arcade Gannon was naturalistic? I felt like I was listening to dialog from Friends.

Edit - I guess that's not fair, I'm grading him as non-naturalistic on a scale calibrated to human beings rather than post-FO2 Fallout

 

[Duraframe300]

To be honest, so many people like Skyrim that I can't really fault anyone for doing so. I guess the reality is that not everyone is like me and doesn't like or doesn't play a game on principle. The only AAA games that I will play in the foreseeable future are The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077.

The problem is that Skyrim is the only open-world FPS/RPG with the kind of production value that helps people forgive its faults. Every other game like it is ass. New Vegas was pretty good but it wasn't great, and it had a lion's share of faults. If your themes aren't fully developed until the player shells out 40 more bucks on story DLCs, there's a serious problem.

What themes?

The DLC added some of their own that fit and expanded others, but apart from plothooks they weren't that important to the main game. (At least, IMO. I didn't think Lonesome Road was all that necessary)

 

[Bradylama]

The main game's story just wasn't that good, whereas the DLCs had an overarching theme that developed into a really satisfying climax. It didn't come close to realizing the setting's potential until the DLC.

 

[Rake]

Neither BG1 nor BG2 had particularly good stories.

I don't disagree with Infinitron here. BG1 story was so cliche it's laughable. BG 2 has mediocre story. Better than 1 but still...
So what? Fallouts also had terrible stories but were great games. The only RPGs with good stories are P:T and MotB.(Wichers are at the BG2 and Arcanum level or sligtly above)

 

[Sensuki]

The problem is that Skyrim is the only open-world FPS/RPG with the kind of production value that helps people forgive its faults. Every other game like it is ass. New Vegas was pretty good but it wasn't great, and it had a lion's share of faults. If your themes aren't fully developed until the player shells out 40 more bucks on story DLCs, there's a serious problem.

Well I didn't even like Morrowind, which is apparently the best of that style of game.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Eh, neither BG1 nor BG2 had a particularly good story. I guess you could say BG2's was a bit more interesting/less stereotypical, but that's what sequels do.



Hah, that does sound like him. For fuck's sake Drog

It's true that neither had very interesting stories, but i enjoyed how "tidy" the BG2 story was, the dialogues and the characters were well done when compared to the medium.

Overall, i'm yet to see an RPG with a Great story and Great writing, maybe that will never be possible due to the sheer volume of work that a team of writers has to churn out for a decently sized RPG, the writing will become increasingly derivative as you populate the world with characters and stories.

Ask most critics what their favorite books are and you won't get many answers claiming that "series X or Y is the best", single books with shorter narratives are usually better written than any epic fantasy series.

After years of playing rpg's and being unimpressed by most of the stories presented, i'm reaching the point where i think developers should focus on smaller games with less but better content.

 

[tuluse]

You can't really compare Fallout's story to the rest of those games. I mean you can grab a water chip and blow up the base and head back to the Vault all in a few weeks (maybe days?) in game.That would be such a simplistic story as to barely even count. Fallout is more like a series of short stories about each town, and some of them are quite good.

 

[Sensuki]

After years of playing rpg's and being unimpressed by most of the stories presented, i'm reaching the point where i think developers should focus on smaller games with less content but better content.

That's if you play games for the story though. For me gameplay and replayability are higher priorities.