Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

I don't see why this is relevant. Is Josh doing the quests in Eternity or just the gameplay mechanics? There's your answer.

I am not asking this because it is relevant. I am really curious. Who did it?

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/2025171501

For the most part, I only wrote high-level documents. I didn't write any of the plot-critical characters and I didn't do detailed area development or implementation.

I wrote our RDC (Region Design Constraints) documents, which had a basic overview of the concepts/conflicts for all of the primary locations (e.g. Goodsprings, Mojave Outpost, the vaults, The Strip, Nellis AFB, etc.) and I did the initial write-ups for the companions (just a page each covering their basic concept, background, personality, voice, and intended plot arc).

Let me just do a mini-writing credits dump to answer a lot of common questions here. Most of the major plot characters (Benny, Victor, Caesar, Mr. House) and the main story itself were written by the game's creative lead, John Gonzalez. Eric Fenstermaker wrote Veronica and Boone. Chris Avellone wrote Cass, Lanius, and Oliver. Travis Stout wrote Lily and Raul. Most of the other characters, major and minor, were split between the writers above and other area designers. Of course the actual full design treatments, quests, and implementation of areas were done by the area designers.

The only "big" characters I wrote were Chief Hanlon, Arcade Gannon, and President Kimball's speech. Also I just wrote/structured the dialogue in GECK. The design, implementation, and scripting for the associated quests of those dialogues (Return to Sender, For Auld Lang Syne, You'll Know It When You See It/Arizona Killer) were handled by Matt McLean, Travis Stout, Jeff Husges, and Charlie "Master of Hoover" Staples.

Most of the content design and generation I did was for game systems (SPECIAL + gambling/Caravan + equipment).

 

[Roguey]

Would Fallout have been a better game if started in the Hub, rather than introducing you to the setting gradually via Shady Sands -> Junktown -> Hub?

Oh by the way I remembered that Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw (also a goon) played Fallout up until the hub, where he dropped it because he was overwhelmed. Not too surprising coming from a guy who disliked both Witchers and Torment.

 

[Brayko]

How is it "overwhelming"? All you have to do is ask two people where a water chip is and it will lead you right to the water merchants who lead you right to the Necropolis. What a retard.

 

[uaciaut]

I don't disagree with Infinitron here. BG1 story was so cliche it's laughable. BG 2 has mediocre story. Better than 1 but still...
So what? Fallouts also had terrible stories but were great games. The only RPGs with good stories are P:T and MotB.(Wichers are at the BG2 and Arcanum level or sligtly above)

opinions, opinions.

Someone kidnaps you and experiments on you, you escape but they manage to get your best friend and then you chase them to save the damsel in distress and lose your soul while you're at it which you have to get back from the bad again. So it only trades the damsel in distress for your soul as the main reason you're chasing the bad guy for. How is that a GOOD story?

BG2 is probably my all-time favourite game but the storyline was really not its' main strong point.

"What Could Have Been Better" coming from the company that never made anything as good as Baldur's Gate 2 ever again is way above my month's supply of irony.

"Bioware sucked after BG2" isn't really an argument. That said Athkatla was superbly designed for all its' minor flaws -i do think the design team was a bit disorganized in creating the area and it feels like they simply had a team for each district and then one other team to put them all together.

I had no problem that Chapter 2 was so big either, chapters don't have to be equal in length and being thrusted into that world it was bound that the chapter in which you'd get to explore it would be the longest anyway.

If P:E pulls off 2 big cities of Alkathla-like proportions i'll be the happiest man alive.

 

[Rivmusique]

How is it "overwhelming"? All you have to do is ask two people where a water chip is and it will lead you right to the water merchants who lead you right to the Necropolis. What a retard.

Hey man, there are some quests there that tell you to go in a different direction than south towards the water merchants. How can the designer expect the player to go in different directions at the same time huh? What if he goes one way then forgets the other? Overwhelming shit, uninstall.

On Sawyer's Athkatla comments, I can not agree that it was overwhelming. I wish some of the other areas had a little more quests though, especially Tradesmeet. Though I think coming out in the middle of the biggest area so early would be bad in a brand new series (like P:E). I would prefer a Beregost-like town with a few side-quests of its own then one of the cities a bit later that dwarfs it (3-4x the content). But it was BG2, so fuck it.

 

[Sensuki]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're a bit more like Baldur's Gate 1, but with more interesting quests and political / faction stuff

 

[imweasel]

I don't disagree with Infinitron here. BG1 story was so cliche it's laughable. BG 2 has mediocre story. Better than 1 but still...
So what? Fallouts also had terrible stories but were great games. The only RPGs with good stories are P:T and MotB.(Wichers are at the BG2 and Arcanum level or sligtly above)

opinions, opinions.

Someone kidnaps you and experiments on you, you escape but they manage to get your best friend and then you chase them to save the damsel in distress and lose your soul while you're at it which you have to get back from the bad again. So it only trades the damsel in distress for your soul as the main reason you're chasing the bad guy for. How is that a GOOD story?

BG2 is probably my all-time favourite game but the storyline was really not its' main strong point.

The story in BG2, especially the complete story arc of the series, was fantastic. One of the best in video game history.

The story revolves around the fact that you are a Bhaalspawn, a child of the god of murder. So yeah, there is also quite a bit of fantasy bullshit in the narrative, but it is also a fantasy game, so that is to be expected.
And why did you go after Imoen? Why were you kidnapped? Well, that was explained in the game, without any loose ends either. It was great and it made sense.

But you have your opinion and I have mine. Lets leave it at that.

 

[Cosmo]

The story revolves around the fact that you are a Bhaalspawn, a child of the god of murder.

That's not the story. That's the premise. And the story itself is as much built around the narrative fantasy bullshit you're talking about as it is on this premise.

 

[imweasel]

Narrative = story.

Yes, the premise is that you are a Bhaalspawn, a child of the god of murder. And the story revolves around this premise.

 

[uaciaut]

The story in BG2, especially the complete story arc of the series, was fantastic. One of the best in video game history.

The story revolves around the fact that you are a Bhaalspawn, a child of the god of murder. So yeah, there is also quite a bit of fantasy bullshit in the narrative, but it is also a fantasy game, so that is to be expected.
And why did you go after Imoen? Why were you kidnapped? Well, that was explained in the game, without any loose ends either. It was great and it made sense.

But you have your opinion and I have mine. Lets leave it at that.

The whole arc thing with Bhaal dying and leaving his essence all over the place and you being one of the children, etc was not bad, i enjoyed it a lot actually.

You have the right to your own opinion, of course, but i really doubt you can look back on the whole BG saga and see the "side-arc" that BG2 constituted that was pretty much outside this arc-thing (as a story) that impressive, nor do i think that you could argue Irenicus as a main villain and the reasons why you followed/fought him to be the game/saga's strongest points.

 

[Sensuki]

Getting captured and losing all your gear was kind of annoying too. My first ever D&D campaign I played in (Dark Sun), I think that happened 3 or 4 times. So when it happened at the start of BG2 I was like FUUUUUUUUUUU

 

[BobtheTree]

Word. I'm glad to hear he recognizes the shortcomings of BG2, which has always been my least favorite of the IE games. Gives me more faith that the game will be a more well-rounded IE-like experience.

 

[Delterius]

I do find it strange he didn't say anything about the mage battles we bitched so much about.

Anyway, about cities. Are they aiming for Baldur's Gate or Athkatla in presentation?

 

[Jasede]

Bitched about? The mage battles were the best part!

 

[Delterius]

Bitched about? The mage battles were the best part!

Bitched about Sawyer's opinions.

 

[Lilura]

Word. I'm glad to hear he recognizes the shortcomings of BG2, which has always been my least favorite of the IE games. Gives me more faith that the game will be a more well-rounded IE-like experience.

His "criticisms" are inaccurate or a matter of taste. And BG2 was the most well-rounded IE game, IWD was about combat, PS:T about story and dialogue. I enjoy all IE games, though.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if Obsidian can make P:E as good as any of them.

 

[Roguey]

I won't be surprised since I didn't really like any of them and all his proposed changes sound better.

Josh talkin' about ToEE on YCS:

what they did right: great implementation of D&D 3.5 combat, cool engine/rendering stuff (2D+3D).
what they did wrong: follow that bad module verbatim.

A near-verbatim implementation of a fundamentally dumb system is right? Ridiculous. He's being polite.

lol what, that module fuckin owns as a straighht dungeon crawl with no story

who cares about the story it's full of stupid horseshit player sucker-punching.

like what, and if anything what actually made it into the game
the only really shitty thing i can think of is the bit where hedrack summons an avatar of iuz and there's a random chance that an avatar of st. cuthbert will appear and beat his ass up, and if you you get unlucky and you also aren't prepared to beat that nigga's ass your options are A) run or B) teleport the fuck outta there

yeah that's mostly what i was talking about

but also, additionally, even though a lot of the sucker-punch stuff from the module didn't make it over, i think that stuff is bad (e.g. werewolf mirror angels / vampire lol j/k it's a prince).

village of hommlet would be hella fun on a table top but I wouldn't wanna do it on a computer

that too. you spend about 10 hours walking around an accurate recreation of hommlet

 

[AN4RCHID]

From Sawyer's Tumblr -

espressogentleman asked: How would you guys implement attacks of opportunity visually in Project Eternity? Will additional attack animation be added like NWN1, or simply a visual feedback like NWN2 did?

I would like to implement a ghosted double of the character performing the disengagement attack. If we have the actual character animate it, the character is losing time he or she could be spending performing some other action.

 

[Roguey]

I won't be surprised since I didn't really like any of them and all his proposed changes sound better.

Which ones of them? He keeps changing his changes.

You're getting too caught up in details instead of looking at the big picture.

 

[Lord Andre]

He's right about the module. Who ever picked it needs to get shot in the balls.

 

[Sensuki]

George Ziets pretty much always responds to questions unlike Sawyer who seems very selective about what he replies to (which is kinda fair enough I guess)

Do you know if the revealed characters (Cadegund, Edair etc) are recruitable NPCs ?

At least some of them will probably be recruitable companions, but we haven't finalized the list yet.

 

[Cursed Beaver]

At least some of them will probably be recruitable companions, but we haven't finalized the list yet.

I certainly hope Edair will be playable. I like his style.

 

[Lilura]

what they did right: great implementation of D&D 3.5 combat, cool engine/rendering stuff (2D+3D).
what they did wrong: follow that bad module verbatim.

What ToEE did right:

1.) TURN-BASED COMBAT NOT REAL COP-OUT WITH PAUSE, HELLO
2.) GREYHAWK CS
3.) Silkily animated characters moving around on luscious isometric backdrops.
4.) Intuitive radial menu and clear UI panels with full ruleset and breakdown of events reviewable even during combat.
5.) Solid framework for C&C dialogue (symbols for bluff, intimidate, gather information etc.)
6.) Support for larger parties than IE, plus enchanted enemies and summons follow you from area to area
7.) Detailed, nuanced and precise movement rules.
8.) Unique animations for critical hits and utility skills
9.) independently targetable spells (Magic Missile)
10.) AoE of spells can be seen before casting
11.) Impressive build variation even with a level cap of 10
12.) Initiative prioritizing during combat
13.) Spell effectiveness changed with environment (e.g, Fireball doesn't work too well in Water Node, makes sense)
14.) Party alignment-based opening vignettes

What ToEE did wrong:

1.) Atari as publisher (read about how they hamstrung them)
2.) Failed to implement factional behavior as per module
3.) Awful pathfinding
4.) Horrid node lag (almost game-breaking)
5.) Terrible voice-acting and forgettable music
6.) Almost non-existent C&C
7.) movement in modal stealth TOO SLOW
8.) last but not least, BUGS

In premise the game is full of win but it failed epically in execution. Even so, Obsidian would do well to use what ToEE did right as their prime model, though I see they chickened out on turn-based combat which is kinda sad.

 

[Lord Andre]

Nope. Real problem was the module. It was pure shit to begin with. A "big city" plot with intrigue and more personal hook would have been ten times better for low-level d&d.

Fighting Sauron is for big boys and backwater dumps villages are always a drag.

 

[Roguey]

4.) Intuitive radial menu and clear UI panels with full ruleset and breakdown of events reviewable even during combat.

Radial menus are bad. You don't navigate your OS with radial menus. Because doing that would be crazy.


Josh dishin' some red boots-style dirt:

and you can go inside all the houses

there was an executive who was obsessed w/ this and i asked him why it was fun to go inside every house and he would sputter and gesticulate and eventually become furious