Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Dreaad]

You actually read those things?

 

[Blaine]

Didn't you? If not, then your opinion of them is secondhand. I wanted to form my own opinion, so yes, I read about half of them.

It takes me a little less than 4 hours to read through a 500-page (paperback) book, so that's not exactly a major commitment.

 

[Dreaad]

I have also never broken my leg, doesn't mean I need a first hand opinion on the matter... As for your reading speed, that's great, go read the history of rome from the very unclear beginnings. =D personally I hate reading fast it makes good books vanish in one evening, I wish there was a slow down button for books. But back to the main topic....

 

[Roguey]

Josh hates outright immunities

Immunities are fine as long as they don't blank an entire class, too bad they almost always do.

they're usually bad and don't produce interesting tactics or strategies IME. an efficiency penalty can usually produce a similar tactical consideration without rendering one method of attack fundamentally useless.

Take that (A)D&D.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Take that (A)D&D.

lol

Take that, AD&D, some guy who did nothing of worth is talking shit about you.

without rendering one method of attack fundamentally useless.

Which roughly translates to: I don't want to punish players. Players don't understand immunities... or different types of attacks, or anything that's not sword+neck=dead.

And what the fuck is IME? In my experience?

 

[Infinitron]

Which roughly translates to: I don't want to punish players.

Why not take the man at his word, instead of assuming the worst?

don't produce interesting tactics or strategies IME

 

[FeelTheRads]

Why not take the man at his word, instead of assuming the worst?

Because I've seen countless of quotes, thanks to Roguey, where he says that stuff like that (different types of attacks) is punishing for the players. Also, HIS EXPERIENCE is watching retards who can't into games play.. or rather failing at playing. When you have a guy who thinks that some creatures having immunities makes types of attacks useless (somehow the game revolves around those creatures suddenly) and who designs games based on the LCD, you can only assume the worst.

 

[Infinitron]

thanks to Roguey

Yeah because Roguey totally doesn't have an agenda of trolling the Codex by showing only the things calculated to piss people off without proper context.

From what I've seen, I would say that it's actually more likely that other people at Obsidian will be ones pushing to make the game less punishing in the end. Josh Sawyer would not fail at playing Arcanum, that's for sure.

 

[Kirtai]

From what I've seen, I would say that it's actually more likely that other people at Obsidian will be ones pushing to make the game less punishing in the end.

Wasn't his NV mod meant to make the game more like what he wanted for himself rather than what he was told to make? And it certainly doesn't make things easier.

 

[Haba]

That said, I'd be happier if more than a small handful of forum regulars were able and willing to:

• attempt to view issues from more than just their own narrow viewpoint
• admit when they're wrong (instead of scrambling to save face/moving the goalposts/muddying the waters/backpedaling/etc.)
• admit when their opponent's argumentation is superior, even conjecturally

Where on Earth do you find people in general who are willing to do that?

 

[Kirtai]

That said, I'd be happier if more than a small handful of forum regulars were able and willing to:

• attempt to view issues from more than just their own narrow viewpoint
• admit when they're wrong (instead of scrambling to save face/moving the goalposts/muddying the waters/backpedaling/etc.)
• admit when their opponent's argumentation is superior, even conjecturally

Where on Earth do you find people in general who are willing to do that?

Scientists and engineers are trained to do that. How well they do it is another matter entirely.

 

[Sensuki]

Josh hates outright immunities

Immunities are fine as long as they don't blank an entire class, too bad they almost always do.

they're usually bad and don't produce interesting tactics or strategies IME. an efficiency penalty can usually produce a similar tactical consideration without rendering one method of attack fundamentally useless.

Take that (A)D&D.

Where's this quote from ?

The P:E discussion on the SA forums has been interesting for the last few pages. I have been bashed to Oblivion for liking the Infinity Engine UI, not liking Action Queues or Action Bars and for dissing D&D 4E ... lol

 

[Grunker]

Immunities suck.

The right way to do resistances is resource spending (spending action/mana/whatever to get rid of effects) and implicit defenses that everyone has but some are better at (AC, saves, dodging).

 

[Infinitron]

Immunities suck.

Explain for the audience?

 

[Grunker]

Immunities suck.

Explain for the audience?

I agree with Sawyer. Immunities contributes very hard to Rock-Paper-Scissors combat, and binary stuff (one encounter is piss easy because of immunity to fear, in another you might as well not have it). They're not really that tactical, unless you spend resources on them. You can still keep some of the binary stuff that way (sometimes random bonuses in one encounter can be fun) without having them be completely "free win/useless".

 

[Infinitron]

The P:E discussion on the SA forums has been interesting for the last few pages. I have been bashed to Oblivion for liking the Infinity Engine UI, not liking Action Queues or Action Bars and for dissing D&D 4E ... lol

FFS, the anti-dice rolls guy :facepalm:

 

[Crooked Bee]

The P:E discussion on the SA forums has been interesting for the last few pages. I have been bashed to Oblivion for liking the Infinity Engine UI, not liking Action Queues or Action Bars and for dissing D&D 4E ... lol

FFS, the anti-dice rolls guy :facepalm:

Yeah been reading that thread myself. There's a veritable goldmine there!

 

[Sensuki]

I'm an anti dice rolls guy? or did you mean one of them

 

[Infinitron]

The P:E discussion on the SA forums has been interesting for the last few pages. I have been bashed to Oblivion for liking the Infinity Engine UI, not liking Action Queues or Action Bars and for dissing D&D 4E ... lol

FFS, the anti-dice rolls guy :facepalm:

Yeah been reading that thread myself. There's a veritable goldmine there!

Yeah, but on the other hand they discuss many of the same things we do: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=410#post415204827

Wait, so games like Deus Ex or VtM: Bloodlines make you think of Fable or a JRPG?

Because what's being advocated is that there is no "THIS IS THE CORRECT CHARACTER" style bullshit. If you make a cunning rogue with two flashing daggers, that's fine, your character is not by rule of the game shit. If you make a witty rapier wielding rogue who dances about in combat, your character is not by rule of the game shit. If you make a fighter, period, the game does not laugh, mock, and punish you.

If you make a stealth oriented character in NWN2, you're fucked. You're just fucked. You can't do shit. Rogues can't do shit because everything is undead. If you chose the "wrong feats" the system arbitrarily punishes you because they're worthless. That's bad game design. Games should not have traps set up just to fuck you over in fucking chargen.

I'm an anti dice rolls guy? or did you mean one of them

Not you.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The right way to do resistances is resource spending (spending action/mana/whatever to get rid of effects) and implicit defenses that everyone has but some are better at (AC, saves, dodging).

Obviously not all immunities have to be irremovable. But I disagree about the RPS thing, unless every creature has immunities of some sort. I don't see anything wrong with certain creatures having immunities that you can't just remove. For example, needing fire to kill trolls is great, fuck Sawyer.

Plus, his alternative of "an efficiency penalty " is just typical Sawyeristic patching. A penalty would only be equivalent if it was a really big penalty, and then why not just make it an immunity?

 

[Infinitron]

Lore dump: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=11#post414911273

Anthropologically (pre-history), most academics who care to theorize believe that pale elves (Glamfellen) left the northern hemisphere at least 12,000 years ago. Some theorize it happened even earlier, up to 50,000 years ago. Almost every theory about why they left and why they traveled all the way to the southern polar region is pure guesswork. Culturally, they bear almost no resemblance to the Sceltrfolc (wood elves) who live in Aedyr and they have no cultural similarities to the Sceltrfolc who live in Eír Glanfath. There are a few elements of Glamfellen grammar and vocabulary that have common roots with Eld Aedyran and are not found in other surrounding languages (e.g. the languages spoken by boreal dwarves), but the similarities end there.

Culturally, Aedyran wood elves are largely indistinct from Aedyran humans (most of whom are ethnically Thyrtan, "Meadow Folk"). They've been living near and migrating with each other for thousands of years -- so long that their related parent languages (Eld Aedyran and Hylspeak) have mostly disappeared from common use. Aedyran humans and elves remain physiologically distinct because they cannot reproduce. However, their cultures have become so intermingled that they had to develop legal concepts to deal with what are effectively culturally-accepted concubines (human-elf and elf-human), haemneg. The Aedyran imperial family is an oddly-tangled union of a reigning human emperor or empress with a secondary set of powers controlled by an elven concubine.

Glanfathan Sceltrfolc are physiologically very similar to Aedyran Sceltrfolc, but culturally they share no similarities. They speak a completely unrelated language, are mostly organized into semi-nomadic tribes, and tend toward suspicion and xenophobia. Like the orlans alongside whom they live, Glanfathan elves believe that they are the stewards and protectors of the ruins in Eír Glanfath -- though they know they did not create them. Aedyran Sceltrfolc tend to loathe and outwardly disparage Glanfathan Sceltrfolc, though there is no real animosity between Sceltrfolc and Glamfellen. They have minimal contact. Outside of boreal dwarves and some far-traveled aumaua, very few people have any contact with Glamfellen.

Physically, wood elves look like bog-standard fantasy elves. Glamfellen are borderline albinos, slightly taller than wood elves, and the males can (and often do) grow facial hair. Some have epicanthic folds, but it is not universally common (as it is with boreal dwarves).

 

[abnaxus]

J.R.R. Sawyer.

 

[Kirtai]

Is that stuff only on Something Awful and if so, why?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Something Awful understands what a good RPG is.

 

[Sensuki]

If you're one of those people that procrastinates doing uni projects by reading / posting about P:E then this isn't a bad read actually

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3506352&userid=17931