Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[coffeetable]

Hahah Josh is avoiding replying to anything I ask/say about Attributes. Must have shitlisted myself for the time being.

Nah. No-one could possibly find you irritating.

 

[Sensuki]

Just you Something Awful types. Must have got under your skin long before now with all your "so do you live on the internet??" posts.

 

[DraQ]

I'm starting to think that the only way round the gamist objection that purely situational or weakly systemic skills don't belong in an ultimate (or even good) build is through generated content: if every stat has an indeterminacy built into it then having to adapt circumstances to your build rather than vice versa becomes the norm.

Generated content needs systems unconditionally, though.

I'm starting to think we're actually in full agreement and just arguing over semantics. I think that where I'm still thinking in terms of every single crpg I've ever played where all that's systemic is party- or character-bound, you're already thinking in terms of the perfectly simulationist crpg we'd both like to see where the entire world is systematized.

This is my ideal.
I don't think it's fully achievable, but I have no doubts pursuing it would lead to glorious things.

or am I still missing your point

Not at all (and it would be awesome) although when it comes to accounting I would probably just skimp on such skill.

(I'm still not totally sure because all the examples you've used - weapon repair, party morale, etc. - were of the party-bound variety)?

That's because PE is party based IE-like.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I'm starting to think we're actually in full agreement and just arguing over semantics. I think that where I'm still thinking in terms of every single crpg I've ever played where all that's systemic is party- or character-bound, you're already thinking in terms of the perfectly simulationist crpg we'd both like to see where the entire world is systematized.

This is my ideal.
I don't think it's fully achievable, but I have no doubts pursuing it would lead to glorious things.

I'm actually convinced that it's a more practically viable model for making a VD-ian "full-scale" crpg than the conventional one. Like you said, PnP differentiates itself from crpg's through its open-endedness, thus it made no sense for these to have larger systemic bases than the party (e.g. making a world- or even universe-wide economic system would be insane, especially on paper). However, crpg's are both closed and infinitely easier to systematize than the paper variety, so instead of spending years meticulously having to handcraft every (essentially "arbitrary") individual choice and consequence, a system governing these all in tandem should in theory make this an easier process.

or am I still missing your point

Not at all (and it would be awesome) although when it comes to accounting I would probably just skimp on such skill.

I'd probably keep it in just to piss off the gamists (it's probably the closest you can get to an Embroidering skill in practice).

(I'm still not totally sure because all the examples you've used - weapon repair, party morale, etc. - were of the party-bound variety)?

That's because PE is party based IE-like.

Maybe we then just disagree on what to do if you only have a small party-bound system to work with like PE. I think it's somewhat myopic to have to forcibly restrict all skills to this small system because it inevitably leads to a loss in complexity in terms of character skill. I think it's better to have an extra unsystemic skill on board (e.g. the last incarnation of the crafting skill) than not to have it at all. So yeah, it's ideal if Fallout's repair skill also has a systemic use (that's why I put one in in my mod); but if you can't find such viable systemic use in the end (like Sawyer did with crafting) then I think it's better to just leave it in all the same.

 

[Lancehead]

PE related?:

Josh Sawyer ‏@jesawyer12m
"how's it going?" "great! i just implemented tax collection!" <-- tim cain

 

[Infinitron]

PE related?:

Josh Sawyer ‏@jesawyer12m
"how's it going?" "great! i just implemented tax collection!" <-- tim cain

MMO money sink detected. ( implemented by Tim Cain, of course )

 

[DraQ]

If you have money faucet, you need money sink.

 

[Space Satan]

Ohhh, at last we've found a use for Charisma and Intelligence for Fighters and Rogues - to avoid taxes.

 

[Irenaeus]

I wonder if you'll be able to loan money between members of your party in order to use the interests paid to deduce from the amount of tax collected.

 

[Sensuki]

PE related?:

Josh Sawyer ‏@jesawyer12m
"how's it going?" "great! i just implemented tax collection!" <-- tim cain

Stronghold

 

[Rake]

I hope when i refuse to pay my taxes the game will send assasins and latter an invading army to take it from me instead of some you didn't pay, you lose it BS

 

[Aeschylus]

It seems more likely that you will be the one collecting the taxes if you own a stronghold.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

I wonder if you'll be able to loan money between members of your party in order to use the interests paid to deduce from the amount of tax collected.

Probably will be implemented as a Gnomish racial ability.

 

[Hormalakh]

A few updtes from Josh on OEI forums:

A lot of soldiers wore lighter armor for a variety of reasons, some having to do with practical matters like cost or maintenance, but sometimes arguably due to the circumstances of battle. Linen padded jacks were actually surprisingly effective against arrows (more than mail, in some cases).

We have most of our base armor types in the game now (still working on leather and brigandine). We may revise things a bit in the future, but I think most of you will really like where we're going with the designs. They are pretty firmly based in historical references (though they aren't derived from historical suits 1:1), they're distinctive from each other, they allow for the use of player-customized colors, and they are well-grounded. This last point is important to me because it allows us to "grow" the style of armor more over time. If armor starts out crazy or elaborate, things can get super-sized really quickly. Ours are practical but cool-looking (IMO) and it's very easy to tell the male and female characters from each other. Hopefully we can show you some more of it soon.

The character artists have also been developing the weapons more. Like weapons in the IE games and older AD&D artwork, the weapons are relatively realistic in their size and proportion (with slight exaggeration for things like warhammer heads that might not read well at the small character size). We just got in a pollaxe and two-handed morning star, both of which look like bad news (in a good way). As with the armor, I think you'll like the base options and where we can "escalate" into fancier weapons over the course of the game.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64003-armour-weapon-designs-a-plea-part-iv/page-4#entry1357059

Unless a spell list was released while I wasn't looking, there's no guarantee haste will even be in the game, let alone that it'll be the encounter-shattering uberbuff it was in D&D 3E. AFAIK we don't know how good wizard buffing is intended to be, or how nice it'll play with gishing.​

We have a 3rd level Haste-ish spell. It will not be as gnarly as it is in 3E/3.5.

In my current Pathfinder campaign, I removed the extra attack from Haste entirely and the party still casts it all the time. It's that good.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64206-the-gish-and-the-cool-magic/#entry1357024

I read Josh Sawyer's response as being: 'The highlight shortcut remains, but it won't show the hidden chests/doors/traps we'll be putting in'​

Which sounds great. I'm happy with that.​

Correct. Once you've detected a hidden object, the highlighting shortcut will reveal it like other objects.

On a related note, finding hidden objects can happen due to sheer proximity (very close), but will trigger at much greater range if you enter scouting mode, which is our combined stealth/search state.

BTW, another reason why we would like to retain a highlighting key in PE is because with an isometric perspective and occluded geometry, it's very easy for bodies/items to fall "behind" something relative to the camera.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63679-highlighting-objects-in-the-world/page-2#entry1357021

Discuss!

 

[Delterius]

Hormalakh the first post sounds quite interesting, the third sounds weird because its exactly like in the IE. But it does leave me with a question: does anyone know if there'll be racial bonuses to detection?

 

[tuluse]

The update to highlighting sounds inclined.

 

[Sensuki]

Big *thumbsup* to the armor and weapons post.

Is there supposed to be an update today? It wasn't clear whether there would be or not

 

[Hormalakh]

Hormalakh the first post sounds quite interesting, the third sounds weird because its exactly like in the IE. But it does leave me with a question: does anyone know if there'll be racial bonuses to detection?

Dunno. Lemme ask on formspring...

Although most of this info is not new, I have always liked his armor/weapons idea very much. Hopefully they can keep low-level armors/weapons viable for a good while during the game.

 

[Sensuki]

Tax collection is a (very minor) mechanic for the stronghold.

Tax collection is minor passive benefit derived from other aspects of your stronghold. You don't have to "manage" tax collection.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3506352&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=458

cant ss I'm at work

 

[Ninjerk]

I hope they say things like in JA2 when they spot stuff on the ground.

 

[Grunker]

The update to highlighting sounds inclined.

Does it? Pixel-hunting in Baldur's Gate I was pretty retarded. If there are way to use your own brain to deduce spots where hidden stuff might be, then fuck yeah, no high lighting sounds awesome. But if it's the BG1 way of "mouse-over all terrain, be happy when you spot a trickle of blue" then boo!

Although... you could implement a Search skill then that high lighted shit if you invested points in it.

 

[Rake]

The update to highlighting sounds inclined.

Does it? Pixel-hunting in Baldur's Gate I was pretty retarded. If there are way to use your own brain to deduce spots where hidden stuff might be, then fuck yeah, no high lighting sounds awesome. But if it's the BG1 way of "mouse-over all terrain, be happy when you spot a trickle of blue" then boo!

Although... you could implement a Search skill then that high lighted shit if you invested points in it.

The way he described it sounds exactly like BG2/IWDs.
I don't see it as or , it was expected.

 

[Grunker]

The update to highlighting sounds inclined.

Does it? Pixel-hunting in Baldur's Gate I was pretty retarded. If there are way to use your own brain to deduce spots where hidden stuff might be, then fuck yeah, no high lighting sounds awesome. But if it's the BG1 way of "mouse-over all terrain, be happy when you spot a trickle of blue" then boo!

Although... you could implement a Search skill then that high lighted shit if you invested points in it.

The way he described it sounds exactly like BG2/IWDs.
I don't see it as or , it was expected.

BG2 has highlighting for all items.

 

[Roguey]

BG2 had pixel hunts for things that weren't secret doors. When highlighting was added in Throne of Bhaal, it removed the pixel-hunt aspect and became a "press-tab-on-every-screen" game. Josh is saying anything that's meant to be hidden won't show up until your characters get close.

 

[Sensuki]

I like their object highlighter solution. Hidden spots like the ones in BG1 should be hidden unless "found". More rewarding than going *object highlight* hur hur I see da hidden treasure