Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Lhynn]

If that was the case then rogues would be precision damage, which would be pretty fucking useless against a golem or a slime, like it was on 3E.

Project Eternity will do this too.

Two words: Damage Threshold.

But rogues gonna do spike damage, so theyll be actually be better suited to fight stuff that can resist weak but fast attacks, which is the territory of the fighter.

Dreaad a warrior is one devoted to the art of war.

tuluse already mentioned the shotgun wielding rogue.

 

[Infinitron]

But rogues gonna do spike damage, so theyll be actually be better suited to fight stuff that can resist weak but fast attacks, which is the territory of the fighter.

"Spike damage" doesn't literally mean one strong attack. Rogues will wear light armor and use light weapons (with low damage) which means their attacks will be even faster than a fighter's.

I said that fighters hit consistently, I didn't say they were fast.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

But rogues gonna do spike damage, so theyll be actually be better suited to fight stuff that can resist weak but fast attacks like, which is the territory of the fighter.

If they do the smart (i.e. simulation-y) thing, then they'll do the crit calculations after determining whether an attack has pierced armor. That way you don't have this problem.

 

[Lhynn]

"Spike damage" doesn't literally mean one strong attack. Rogues will wear light armor and use light weapons (with low damage) which means their attacks will be even faster than a fighter's.

I said that fighters hit consistently, I didn't say they were fast.

Then my bad, just sharing my impressions anyway, and super glad to be proven mistaken on any of the negative ones.

 

[tuluse]

If they do the smart (i.e. simulation-y) thing, then they'll do the crit calculations after determining whether an attack has pierced armor. That way you don't have this problem.

Critting works similarly to DnD, if your to-hit roll is high enough, you crit.

 

[Infinitron]

I think that when Josh Sawyer talks about a rogue's "spike damage" what he means is that they do damage very quickly (small amounts every time, but it adds up) and the reason it's a "spike" is because:

1) Once the target starts fighting back, the rogue is in trouble and has to retreat. Hence the "spike" ends.
2) The rogue has various special abilities that might increase his chance of hitting temporarily, etc, and once those abilities run out, he doesn't hit as reliably. Ditto.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Critting works similarly to DnD, if your to-hit roll is high enough, you crit.

I meant the crit damage calculation, not the crit chance one. Lhynn's problem was that if a rogue is a critting machine, then he'll be better against heavily armored enemies than a fighter, in spite of having a lower base damage. However, if you calculate whether an attack has pierced the opponent's armor before doing the damage multiplying, then the fighter will still be more effective against heavy armor.

 

[Roguey]

So I can't backtrack (a rather short distance) to a camp as much as I want and rest to full health in PE? If I missed something, then please correct me.

The idea is that you don't feel like you need to do this while still facing sufficient challenge.

Some places will have creatures respawn on rest too.

 

[Lhynn]

I think that when Josh Sawyer talks about a rogue's "spike damage" what he means is that they do damage very quickly (small amounts every time, but it adds up) and the reason it's a "spike" is because:

1) Once the target starts fighting back, the rogue is in trouble and has to retreat. Hence the "spike" ends.
2) The rogue has various special abilities that might increase his chance of hitting temporarily, etc, and once those abilities run out, he doesn't hit as reliably. Ditto.

Then josh cant into mmo vocabulary, thats called burst damage.
Spike damage is a as the name implies, a sudden spike in the damage, usually a single hit that does what a lot of small ones cant.
Dpsers are the ones that are good at sustained damage, they are usually the ones that win the damage race over time.

 

[Jvegi]

Han Solo was a rogue. He used a ranged weapon and was just as deadly as anyone.

Yhm, ACTUALLY, he was a scoundrel

 

[Dreaad]

So I can't backtrack (a rather short distance) to a camp as much as I want and rest to full health in PE? If I missed something, then please correct me.

The idea is that you don't feel like you need to do this while still facing sufficient challenge.

Some places will have creatures respawn on rest too.

I hope the first mod to come out removes respawning nonsense.

 

[Roguey]

I hope the first mod to come out removes respawning nonsense.

If it makes sense for the area, why would you want to remove it? Play better.

 

[Lhynn]

So I can't backtrack (a rather short distance) to a camp as much as I want and rest to full health in PE? If I missed something, then please correct me.

The idea is that you don't feel like you need to do this while still facing sufficient challenge.

Some places will have creatures respawn on rest too.

I hope the first mod to come out removes respawning nonsense.

Its not respawn, think of it as inhabitants of the area just finding you by chance after getting back from picking up flowers and raising their newly born childs and being a day away from retiring into a life of peace.

 

[PlanHex]

No mention of backer portal or prototype in the update makes me

 

[Lancehead]

If someone moves out of range before a hit frame, they "get away". However, unless the target is a rogue using Escape (or something similar), you're also being Engaged and will instantly be subject to a Disengagement Attack. If it hits, you'll stop moving and play a hit reaction (unless you're a Wild Sprint-ing barbarian).

That said, monks have a specific ability to get out of situations like this. Their Rooting Pain ability creates a small-AoE shockwave around them each time they gain a Wound. The shockwave doesn't do much damage, but it does cause a short-duration Stun effect, and Stuns break Engagement.

There's nothing final about Ability progression/selection. Right now we're implementing them as a fixed order progression. That may change for one or more classes depending on how it feels. There's nothing that necessitates gaining them in a strict order.

Sounds like the power curve will be pretty flat

Maybe it'll be lateral progression.

 

[Sensuki]

Spike damage is a as the name implies, a sudden spike in the damage, usually a single hit that does what a lot of small ones cant.
Dpsers are the ones that are good at sustained damage, they are usually the ones that win the damage race over time.

That is actually what he means. I think Infinitron is wrong. The Rogue is simply an MMO-style/4th Edition style Rogue - they do the highest single-target, single-hit damage but they rely on flanking and use of active abilities to boost their damage, having to flank implies the need to re-position, unless the target is disabled. Disables won't last for very long in this game (probs nowhere near as long as IE games), so that will probably be a few hits max, perhaps enough to still down a character.

One of the things previously mentioned is that a Rogue has an attack that does damage based on amount of missing Stamina (or Health), the lower the value, the higher damage bonus.

It's definitely a 4E-ism that Rogues and Rangers are the DPS dealers because they were moulded as 'Striker' classes, I've already expressed my distaste to that but so be it I guess. That's just how it is.

 

[Sensuki]

In terms of (city) layout, the closest comparison is probably Athkatla. Our cities have a number of distinct (large) districts with their own thematic style, sets of interiors, and unique quests/content. They are set up to be easy to navigate, both physically (pathing) and visually. Generally there's an exit from each district along each side of the map, so backtracking isn't necessary if you just want to move to another district. There are exceptions -- e.g. Ondra's Gift, which contains the docks, can't be exited via hopping over the levee and into the ocean -- but we try to make navigation and exploration enjoyable.

Auto-pause features/options are in btw.

 

[Sensuki]

Some of the classic auto-pause settings got new sub-options. E.g. "Enemy Spotted" now has a sub-option to halt the party when the pause is triggered. We also put in a few new ones like Extraordinary Defense which will come up when a PC's attack's pre-roll Accuracy is 50+ points below the enemy's corresponding defense. So if you take a bunch of 2nd level scrubs and start hurling standard melee attacks at a 7th level fighter with a large shield (i.e., super-high Deflection), it's probably going to pause right after your first attack and give you feedback indicating your chances of hitting the guy are really, really bad.

As an anecdote, I was recently doing tuning in a dungeon area where there were relatively narrow halls (not too bad, but not wide-open) with high-level fighters + large shields and casters behind them. I dogpiled the entire party with standard attacks on the enemy fighters and the dudes would not die. Even if I grazed them, their Constant Recovery would wipe out most of the pitiful damage pretty quickly. If I tried to walk away from them, they would stave my head in with a Disengagement Attack (fighters' DAs tend to be extraordinarily accurate/bad news). The caster behind them was chucking out a slow-moving line spell that fries enemies and heals allies, so that was sweet. I had no rogue (so no Escape), no monk (so no Rooting Pain), no barbarian (so no Wild Sprint), no flails to offset the shield's Deflection bonus. My wizard had Deflection-based spells or Reflex-based AoEs that would blast half the party. I had to use the cleric to light them up with a single-target Reflex-based spell that lowered their Deflection, then keep hammering them with the cipher's Psyche-based attacks.

We're still doing a looooooooooooooot of tuning (and will be for the rest of the project), but it's good to see the classes presenting these challenges and it's fun to use the given party's composition to come up with a solution using what we have.

can you make a non-monk pugilist?

You can punch dudes but unless you're a monk the damage never scales and the base damage stinks to high heaven. Transcendent Suffering is what automagically turns a monk's fists into SuperFists.

Also we finished our last base armor set and base weapon types this week. Blunderbusses, flails, estocs, scale armor, and kite shields for all!

 

[Sensuki]

Kaz is working on the inventory UI. The icons below the portrait are "mine" (i.e. just placeholders) and represent (top) Stamina, Health, Main Hand Accuracy, Off-Hand Accuracy and (bottom) the four defenses: Deflection, Fortitude, Reflexes, and Psyche. Of course, it's still a work in progress.

One of the fists for Accuracy will likely be replaced with a breastplate and the character's Damage Threshold. The main/off-hand Accuracy stats will wind up stacked on one "fist" if the character is dual-wielding.

 

[Sensuki]

And some stuff from Kaz ... they must have only given him a Developer tag recently as he has posts dating all the way back to September 20.

Thanks! I like to think portrait work as the ice cream waiting for me when I finish my UI vegetables. Not to say I dislike UI, but I'm fairly new to it and there is a learning curve I'm working to overcome. It doesn't mean portraits will be a cakewalk either, but it is one of my favorite things to do and I'm very much looking forward to getting started on those.

Re: City sketches

Those were sketches I did to establish the general mood for the various districts in Defiance Bay. Someone had asked how long they took, and the answer to that is two days each, six days in total.

 

[Duraframe300]

And some stuff from Kaz ... they must have only given him a Developer tag recently as he has posts dating all the way back to September 20.

It's clearly his dream project and may have contacted Obsidian on his own shortly after the Kickstarter. Which may be how the whole relationship started.

But, its pretty funny that none of us ever searched an user named Kaz after finding out.

 

[Sensuki]

Or before as he did the Sagani portrait which was one of the first pieces of art revealed during Kickstarter updates. The connection there is Polina Hristova - they used to work together for LucasArts on The Clone Wars.

 

[Duraframe300]

Or before as he did the Sagani portrait which was one of the first pieces of art revealed during Kickstarter updates. The connection there is Polina Hristova - they used to work together for LucasArts on The Clone Wars.

Yes. After checking the date for him to have done that concept piece in that time (and it was a weekend no less) it would have need to be done beforehand. The Sagani concept came out much earlier than I rememberd it.

I did imagine that either A: Kaz contacted Polina (Obs) or B: Polina (Obs) contacted Kaz, but under that consideration it's most likely B.

 

[Infinitron]

That is actually what he means. I think Infinitron is wrong. The Rogue is simply an MMO-style/4th Edition style Rogue - they do the highest single-target, single-hit damage

It doesn't make sense from what we know about PE that the Rogue's standard auto attack does the "highest single-target single-hit damage".

Special abilities are a different story, of course.

 

[Duraframe300]

Hey Ropekid, I'm curious as to how you're thinking about handling equipment with the classes. What I mean is, for instance, will PE Rogues be assumed to be dual-wielding Daggers (classic Rogue) or could you equip a Greatsword and pump Str to dish out some sick sneak attacks? (a neat Pathfinder build).

Similarly with Fighters, say: are they optimized for sword and board or is two-handed/two-weapon/one-weapon Dualist-style viable?

I understand that not all equipment is equal and that, for running up and tanking the BBEG a sword and board is the best option, just wondering how much leeway there is.

BONUS QUESTION: What class would make the best Dualist/Swashbuckler and how viable would a lower damage, dodgy Dex melee fighter be?

Loving this game already.

PE rogues work best when they are using melee or missile weapons at close range, but they can use any "style". No matter what weapons they use, they do a lot of damage, crit more than other characters given the same Accuracy, and have Abilities to immediately spike damage if the circumstances are right. If you really want to do a ton of damage in one hit, a two-handed weapon like a pollaxe, estoc, or morning star is the way to go. If you want to do a bit more damage over time and have a more regular damage output, dual-wielding is the way to do it. If you find yourself in a situation where you're getting subjected to a lot of melee attacks, by all means, equip a shield.

Yes, for a fighter to be extra-fightery, a shield is great and can put his or her Deflection into the stratosphere. However, you may be in a situation where a) enemies aren't attacking your Deflection, but some other defense (e.g. druids can cast Flaming Brand and make melee attacks against Reflex) b) skyrocketing your Deflection isn't as important as doing more damage or c) enemies have shield-defeating attacks like flails. In the case of a) your shield gets you nothing and in the case of b) or c) it may make sense to equip a two-handed weapon or to dual-wield.

Specific weapon choice can also matter. E.g. if your enemies have shields, you might want to use a flail (or flails -- dual-wielding flails is one of my favorite things). If your rogue is getting squished in direct melee, use a pike (you can attack from farther away). If your enemies have annoying armor, use stilettos or an estoc (they negate a flat value of DT).

RE: Monks and fists: it's not really a matter of realism; I just don't want to make another class of weapons just to support what is ultimately a niche weapon type for one class. The idea behind monks is that they are the bare-fisted brawlers, so that's their "deal". Other characters can fight with fists, but they don't gain bonuses with them and they have a pretty huge array of other weapons to choose from.

The basic concepts/arcs for the companions are defined but we will be doing their writing later in the development cycle because it gives us more flexibility to respond to game content that already exists.