Vapourware Odd Gods - phase-based spacetime travel RPG about the 1990s

[Grumpy Grognard]

Holy shit, what witchery in this! Another Australian indie studio. This makes what... 5 I think in the entirety of Australia. We are truly witnessing the golden age of indie gaming in Australia.

We just got back from PAX Aus - where the game did really well on the showfloor ('they' said a hardcore isometric CRPG demo that takes 30 minutes to finish, with branching paths, no tutorial, dev-tuned combat and 'highbrow' concepts wouldn't do well - they were wrong). There are a shitload of indie devs in Australia. Inn Between Worlds (our little 'studio', although calling it a studio seems a bit pretentious) is just one of... dozens? I can find out how many.

And so far as interest in CRPGs - lines were chockers 3 days straight. We had to turn people away, bring on extra booth staff to compensate for media attention, and people were booking a turn on our crappy laptops (propped up on milk crates, no less) days in advance. Security would come past after the showfloor closed, and we'd beg them to let our players finish (which they did, mostly, with grace).

That's awesome to hear

I was very surprised... Dead Monarchy looks cool btw, I've been following the project a bit, nice work.

Always nice to meet another Aussie Dev, great to hear that you had a huge turn out at PAX. Thanks for the vote of confidence, I still have a long way to go, but hearing success from another Aussie Dev gets me going. You killed the art, I really like it!

Cheers man, appreciate it. The aussie devs I know are pretty laid back and help each other out a lot - I got the confidence to start this thing up a while back (partly) from seeing an Aussie crew exhibiting an RPG demo a few years back, so - that's cool =)

 

[System]

90's were shit everywhere except in USA.

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

Is the combat like Laser Squad Nemesis?

Looks interesting and good luck.

There are some similarities. Mars Saga and Knights of Legend also are points of reference.

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

90's were shit everywhere except in USA.

Australia (where I grew up) had its fair share of shit/non-shit times. I'd expect that it sucked for a lot of people in the states as well... Depends on your definition of shit, I guess.

 

[Bantichai]

90's were shit everywhere except in USA.

Australia (where I grew up) had its fair share of shit/non-shit times. I'd expect that it sucked for a lot of people in the states as well... Depends on your definition of shit, I guess.

I was a 90's kid, grew up in Brisbane. All I remember was going to Chinatown to buy pokemon cards only to find out they were counterfeit. Luckily my money was counterfeit too.

 

[Falksi]

Fuckinghell this has hyped me up to super-horn level.

The 90's were fucking mint, and the last real bastion of REAL culture. Yes there's always been a mainstream money-man pulling the strings, but back then most things were still born out of the people. Rave didn't exist because there was some suit who saw a gap in the market, it existed because technology evolved electronically and the people got a fucking buzz from getting off their tits with their mates in a field every weekend. Grunge didn't exist because a million X Factor wannabees were chasing fame & fortune like pathetic little Lemmings, it existed because kids got sick of people judging their musical ability on instrumental athletics & not emotion.

Good or bad it was far more honest, and far more real than the majority of what we have today.

The 90's were a beautiful time when hope & incline existed, the culture was still very much forged by the young, bird and beast and flower were one with man, and death was but a dream.......

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

this whole 90s nostalgia and incessant pop culture references popping up in copious amounts aggravate me

the 90s were depressingly shit

It's interesting you say that. I find the 90s fascinating, as a decade - from a cultural, political, economic and technological perspective.

You've got the end of the cold war/fall of the berlin wall to kick it off. Massive corporate power and rampant commercialism, while on the flipside - rebellious subcultures, an explosion of creativity in music and grassroots politics for example not seen since the 60s or 70s. Massive anti-globalisation protests (battle of seattle, for example). The dawn of the digital/information era - remember that for most people, the 90s was experienced pre-internet. It was the last vestige of pre-internet culture, in a sense.

Although I would say that, because I'm a dev on the project. But seriously - I do find it fascinating. People have such different memories of the era. Part of what the game is about is asking questions about that stuff.

in my country the 90s were full of crime and drugs and alcoholism and shady businessmen buying out post-Soviet state industries for pennies only to end up dead a month later

to feel nostalgia for what was essentially dark ages is mind-boggling

Argentina (from your profile)? I understand (superficially) that it was pretty bloody awful, to make the understatement of the year. Always wanted to visit, though. Argentina's been suggested as a possible location in the campaign, for what it's worth.

I'm from Poland

... Reminded me of an old comrade from Czech, telling me about doing duck and cover exercises, grenade practice and so on at school.

Just a minor point - OG won't just be a nostalgia trip if it's to be a good CRPG. It should approach nostalgia carefully, then reconsider, stalk it, then try a diplomacy option, then tear it to shreds, then re-examine the pieces.

 

[Luckmann]

I'm from Poland

I was going to say "My condolences" but then I remembered that I'm from Sweden.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'm from Poland

I was going to say "My condolences" but then I remembered that I'm from Sweden.

My deepest sympathies.

 

[bylam]

The 90's were a beautiful time when hope & incline existed, the culture was still very much forged by the young, bird and beast and flower were one with man, and death was but a dream.......

Sure, I was interested, but then you quoted Excalibur and I was all over it like stink on a monkey.

 

[Jaesun]

 

[Rivmusique]

Is that a conquistador?

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

Is that a conquistador?

Kinda =) We call that character the conquistador for short, although technically (pardon my grognard), the character's based on a tercio captain pre-conquistador as we commonly know them. I tried to get 'no, he's a tercio and-' to stick, but everyone ignored me

 

[Roguey]

It feels a bit Fallout 1-esque according to some players, although that's a compliment I don't feel comfortable with, if you ask me.

Yeah, I'd say there's a problem if your deterministic system feels similar to one with extreme randomness.

 

[Iznaliu]

I was going to say "My condolences" but then I remembered that I'm from Sweden.

Sweden is obviously the best country in the world; proof is below:

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

It feels a bit Fallout 1-esque according to some players, although that's a compliment I don't feel comfortable with, if you ask me.

Yeah, I'd say there's a problem if your deterministic system feels similar to one with extreme randomness.

Ditto. To qualify (although I can't quote verbatim), the 'Fallout 1 randomness' (or the 'curated' RNG systems of modern X-Com) was something players at PAX mentioned they were relieved/excited was to replaced by a new combat system.

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

90's were shit everywhere except in USA.

Australia (where I grew up) had its fair share of shit/non-shit times. I'd expect that it sucked for a lot of people in the states as well... Depends on your definition of shit, I guess.

I was a 90's kid, grew up in Brisbane. All I remember was going to Chinatown to buy pokemon cards only to find out they were counterfeit. Luckily my money was counterfeit too.

... Mind if I add counterfit 'roquemon' cards to our list of potential barter items? ;P

 

[Glop_dweller]

('Same Phase' system with no RNG, no % to hit, just tactics)

This is enough to pass on the game if it's an RPG. The games Myth 1 & 2 were superb with just tactics, but they were not RPGs; they were about tactics; RPGs are about characters, and not having an impartial system is a detriment to an RPG. In an RPG, the player is held to the limitations of the PC; that's why there is an impartial percentile skill system. The PC has to be fallible, or it's just a hand puppet for the player; sadly, an often petulant player who demands that the PC do as they are told, rather than as they are able.

Skilled PCs are on balance able to succeed despite the percentile roll, (which depicts situational difficulty and random chance)' while the novice is more at the mercy of fluke success, due to their ineptness. This is as it should be; (including real indefinite failure). If it gets to the point where the player is on (for instance) their 30th attempt... then the game should have intervened by then. The guards should have returned, and caught the PC; or the lock should have long since been damaged by endless tampering. Failing at physical skills would include cramps and weakness, or any number of minor difficulties. People complain that their character can pick locks at 99%, but they failed! (even failed twice!) WHY!? ... Because even a professional locksmith can fail at opening the lock to their own house with their own house keys... It happens all the time... it's called dropping your keys.

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

('Same Phase' system with no RNG, no % to hit, just tactics)

This is enough to pass on the game if it's an RPG. The games Myth 1 & 2 were superb with just tactics, but they were not RPGs; they were about tactics; RPGs are about characters, and an impartial system is a detriment to an RPG. In an RPG, the player is held to the limitations of the PC; that's why there is an impartial percentile skill system. The PC has to be fallible, or it's just a hand puppet for the player; sadly, an often petulant player who demands that the PC do as they are told, rather than as they are able.

Skilled PCs are on balance able to succeed despite the percentile roll, (which depicts situational difficulty and random chance)' while the novice is more at the mercy of fluke success, due to their ineptness. This is as it should be; (including real indefinite failure). If it gets to the point where the player is on (for instance) their 30th attempt... then the game should have intervened by then. The guards should have returned, and caught the PC; or the lock should have long since been damaged by endless tampering. Failing at physical skills would include cramps and weakness, or any number of minor difficulties. People complain that their character can pick locks at 99%, but they failed! (even failed twice!) WHY!? ... Because even a professional locksmith can fail at opening the lock to their own house with their own house keys... It happens all the time... it's called dropping your keys.

While our system is deterministic, it's not infallible. The combat rests on the principle of 'imperfect information'.

One example we use is - say you've got a flintlock pistol, single shot-type deal. You have an enemy - say, a highwayman - dead to rights. They're right in front of you, your gun's loaded - in OG, that shot will hit every time... With a caveat. It takes time to aim and fire a pistol - in that time, the highwayman can try to interrupt your attack, dive out of the way, or attack first/faster. That's all built into how our turn mechanics work.

Flip the scenario - the highwayman has manoeuvred into a position and has you at point blank range. During the planning phase of the turn, you can see the enemy 'telegraphing' their next move with an animation. If they're reaching for their holster, you could anticipate they're going to try a ranged attack, and plan accordingly. You can't literally read enemy minds though, so you have to be careful. Also, the more well trained you are, the more information you can perceive about an enemy's intentions.

 

[Bantichai]

90's were shit everywhere except in USA.

Australia (where I grew up) had its fair share of shit/non-shit times. I'd expect that it sucked for a lot of people in the states as well... Depends on your definition of shit, I guess.

I was a 90's kid, grew up in Brisbane. All I remember was going to Chinatown to buy pokemon cards only to find out they were counterfeit. Luckily my money was counterfeit too.

... Mind if I add counterfit 'roquemon' cards to our list of potential barter items? ;P

LOL go for it mate.

 

[Glop_dweller]

It takes time to aim and fire a pistol - in that time, the highwayman can try to interrupt your attack, dive out of the way, or attack first/faster. That's all built into how our turn mechanics work.

Aside from the 'will hit every time' aspect (—with mentioned caveat), it's an interesting mechanic... but how is that ever a turn? If it's the opponent's 'turn', how can the target choose to dodge on the opponent's turn? How is that not imposing upon the opponent's turn?

*Many turn based games do allow for actions that coincide during the active turn, but these are generally automatic, rather than dynamic options. Where those who acted previously chose to delay their action (like setting an overwatch/guard option), or it could be a statistical evasion (like in Fallout 1 & 2), where the attack would have hit, but for the opponent's armor/dexterity; and it animates a dodge.

Generally in turn based (combat) games, the active turn moves (decides an action) with the complete foreknowledge of all that has transpired in the round before them; including what combatants are primed for overwatch or auto actions. Your system would seem to allow dynamic choices to occur during another's turn, but before their results (possibly nullifying their action)... Albeit the distinction is subtle; who is to say that the attack missed for a statistical failure, or a intra-turn defensive action. I guess it would come down to whether the player gets the option (at will?) to interrupt the action of the opposing turn; that's where it no longer seems like a turn to me. Does this happen equally for the player's attacks upon NPCs? (Do NPCs get the option to interrupt the player's turn with a defensive action?) If it's 100% equal for both, then it would seem fine—in a way, but it certainly blurs (complicates) the line between turns.

**This was the problem with FO3's V.A.T.S. attack BTW; (touted by some as the turn based option—though it of course wasn't). It was like an I-Win button for the player, one that afforded only the player to have multiple free attacks on opponents, and with a bumped up 90% damage resistance during the assault. The NPCs never got their own turns to return fire using the same feature; and (due to the realtime nature of the game) what attacks they performed during the player's V.A.T.S. assault did only 1/10th the normal damage... for some one-sided magical reason. Does your system mean that the player gets to act, and also act again during the opponent's turn (if their character is attacked by them)? Can they do this for everyone that attacks them in the round?

***If turns are considered concurrent actions, and a combatant gets attacked by multiple opponents... How can they be defending against each at the same time?

 

[luj1]

Fantastic concept.

 

[Wulfstand]

Holy hell this looks really good!

 

[Ismaul]

During the planning phase of the turn, you can see the enemy 'telegraphing' their next move with an animation. If they're reaching for their holster, you could anticipate they're going to try a ranged attack, and plan accordingly.

That sounds great man. Now I'm really interested.

 

[Morkar Left]

I'm not too enthusiastic about pop culture references and "spacetime" but we'll see.

this whole 90s nostalgia and incessant pop culture references popping up in copious amounts aggravate me the 90s were depressingly shit

That's what I thought back in the 90s. Comparing it with today standards I have to say it was a golden age.