OMG! More famous voices for Oblivion

[Roger P]

Excuse me, I thought you meant gaming and non-gaming expeience. So, why do you speak so authoratatively on something you have no experience with? Just another guy on the internet pretending he's something he's not?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Because programming is not magic. Once again, look at the work done by MW modders. Are they all professional game developers? No. There's your answer. If you don't get it, doesn't mean that nobody gets it.

 

[Roger P]

Yes, because as we all know, modding a game is the same exact thing as building an entire game.

 

[Chefe]

I don't think you understand exactly what "modding" means in the Morrowind community.

For example...

Modders added mounts.
Modders added flying carpets and air balloons.
Modders added fully functional chess games.
Modders added better textures to the landscape, people, critters, weapons, and armor.
Modders added better character meshes.
Modders created external programs which would allow for more advanced combat features such as gore, decapitations, slowing time, and special moves, among other things.
Modders created external programs that allowed you to block with the push of a key.
Modders created books you could write in in-game, also allowing you to write in your journal.
Modders created external programs to increase the view distance past what was allowed and modifications to increase the overall FPS and playability of the game.
Modders created unique dialogue and quests for every NPC in the game.
Modders created NPCs that could set and placed them on stools in the bars.
Modders created custom animated NPCs that look like they're playing the lute.
Modders created cooking.
Modders created character eating and drinking requirements.
Modders created wells that you could get water out of for said requirements.
Modders created tents you could carry around and set up anywhere in the game world.
Modders created battle arenas where you could duke it out or watch NPCs duke it out.
Modders created working lighthouses.
Modders created quivers that even display what type of arrow you currently have equipped.
Modders created rivers and streams.
Modders created see-through glass display cases.
Modders created lifelike dogs and cats that roam the streets.
Modders created lifelike birds that flew overhead.
Modders created werewolves before Bloodmoon.

... just to name a few.

 

[Tintin]

Are you saying that a horseman is impossible to kill in real life? Think again. They have an advantage and they have a disadvantage. Same mechanics would apply.

Picture this - you're standing (or you're a monster, since kathode or someone said a lot of real combat takes place in places where horses can't go, like caves & towns) and you're trying to fight this guy who's up above you on this huge horse galloping around you, whipping back and forth around you. It's not impossible to kill, but it sure is hard.

And turn that the other way - and you get a game that is way too easy.

 

[Roger P]

Yeah, I know. But developers usually have a time table which prevents them from implementing all the things modders can in their own time. Do you want mounted combat to feel like a user-made mod in the release version? I'd rather they polish existing features and fix bugs myself.

 

[Spazmo]

And turn that the other way - and you get a game that is way too easy.

This is nonsense. It's a fantasy game. All you have to do is include mounted opponents or opponents who are just so large that the height and mass advantage a horse gets you only puts you even with this huge ogre or what have you. By the same logic, magic items shouldn't be allowed because they make the game too easy for the player--where's the challenge in killing cliff racers if you have your +18 sword of rape?

 

[Drakron]

Picture this - you're standing (or you're a monster, since kathode or someone said a lot of real combat takes place in places where horses can't go, like caves & towns) and you're trying to fight this guy who's up above you on this huge horse galloping around you, whipping back and forth around you. It's not impossible to kill, but it sure is hard.

And turn that the other way - and you get a game that is way too easy.

Too bad mounted combat is ancient and we long adapted ways to deal with it.

The most obvious one is ranged, being on a horse just makes you a bigger target and another one are spears since they have reach.

The main issue is that the way to deal was simple, kill the mount or the rider since it did not matter much, killing the mount means chances the rider gets killed/badly injured as well are high and if you kill the rider then it just a animal running around.

Dont think the "whipping back and forth" is a good idea, mounted units main strategy was to charge and try to overrun the enemy position, not get near and start to dance since as controling a animal is not that easy it becames harder in combat.

The reason mounted combat is not in Oblivion is because they could not make it work.

 

[Micmu]

Picture this - you're standing (or you're a monster, since kathode or someone said a lot of real combat takes place in places where horses can't go, like caves & towns) and you're trying to fight this guy who's up above you on this huge horse galloping around you, whipping back and forth around you. It's not impossible to kill, but it sure is hard.

How about horses are not like bikes?
You hurt horse, it panics and goes berserk and/or throws you off?
How about that? It would work and look perfect with physics engine and would be fun, too. There's always a solution for such problem, which isn't a problem at all.
I'm sure they didn't do it because of the timing (or something else) and NOT because it isn't possible to do. They DO know how to do stuff. And they DO know about PR, too. How to explain things.
Not that I care for mounted combat (or horses whatsoever), not at all, just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Tintin]

Im not saying it's impossible to balance it. I'm saying there's a lot of balancing issues. Sure, they could work it, but it would take a long long time and even then there would probably still be little things that would cause trouble.

 

[Spazmo]

Difficult to balance? That's the best you can come up with? Especially after you've been shown that balance isn't even an issue here? Come on.

 

[Tintin]

Difficult to balance? That's the best you can come up with? Especially after you've been shown that balance isn't even an issue here? Come on.

Uh excuse me what are you talking about. The dev said it wasn't there because they would need a lot of time to give it the polish it deserves. Now what do you think is the reason it would take a long time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Are you saying that a horseman is impossible to kill in real life? Think again. They have an advantage and they have a disadvantage. Same mechanics would apply.

Picture this - you're standing (or you're a monster, since kathode or someone said a lot of real combat takes place in places where horses can't go, like caves & towns) and you're trying to fight this guy who's up above you on this huge horse galloping around you, whipping back and forth around you. It's not impossible to kill, but it sure is hard.

And turn that the other way - and you get a game that is way too easy.

Picture this - you're standing and you are trying to fight this guy who's above you. The name of the guy is cliffracer. 'nuff said.

When a horseman approaches, you either dodge or hit or both. (Have you seen Gladiator?). If you have a bow, it's even easier - dodge and shoot him in the back as he rides past you.

 

[franc kaos]

If spears are not in (confirmation anyone?), and staves have been changed to wands that block, no one handed throwing things, then what can you reasonably fight with?

I've never ridden a horse, but a friends aunt just bought one, its flank comes up to nearly my head (5 foot ten), I would imagine that if you tried fighting with sword/hammer/axe you're going to do more damage to the horse than to the enemy.

Of course, if spears are in, then that's no longer an issue. So, for this expansion we're getting werewolves, mounted combat, spears, crossbow, (and proper staff<?>), a joinable five divines, new skills, a new landmass, a toggle for the compass... Man, the expansion is gonna be bigger than the main game.

 

[Micmu]

Of course, if spears are in, then that's no longer an issue. So, for this expansion we're getting werewolves, mounted combat, spears, crossbow, (and proper staff<?>), a joinable five divines, new skills, a new landmass, a toggle for the compass... Man, the expansion is gonna be bigger than the main game.

Not so fast; they might add some content but certainly not skills and other changes in game mechanics. That would require total game redesign.
Btw. they're already talking of expansion!? Now, that is mean.

 

[Chefe]

I don't know if they're talking about an expansion, but so far they already have horse armor that will NOT ship with the game but must be downloaded over Xbox Live (no word on PC horse armor though, or if it will cost anything).

 

[Chefe]

wtf, omg, 9 divinez in?

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=615970

During your quest, you’ll also have the opportunity to join one of many different factions that exist in the Elder Scroll’s universe. These include the Mages Guild, the Thieves Guild, the Fighters Guild, The Nine Divines, The Dark Brotherhood and the Arena Guild. Of course, your alignment with good or evil will change depending on which group you join. The Mages and Fighters Guilds are firmly on the side of good, while the Thieves Guild and The Dark Brotherhood are appropriately sinister. The Arena Guild puts you through combat for sport as a gladiator, while The Nine Divines are a religious order you can choose to join if you wish to become a monk.

Bethesda first annouced the game: Nine Divines are in. Come around to the fan interview: Nine Divines are out. Now, they're back in?

 

[Twinfalls]

Nah. That bit's just based on an old, old preview.

It seems pretty clear they have trashed the Nine Divines for lack of time and resources. I guess they trashed staves as well once they decided 'We're trashing the Divines faction, so let's also completely trash being a monk character in this game'.

 

[Hazelnut]

I don't know if they're talking about an expansion, but so far they already have horse armor that will NOT ship with the game but must be downloaded over Xbox Live (no word on PC horse armor though, or if it will cost anything).

Yeah I heard about the dl'able horsie armour too - what the hell is the point of that when you can't fight from your horse?

Maybe you can't fight from the back of a horse, but you can be fought? Maybe that's why spears, xbows, throwing & staves aren't in then? Hmmm, but I'm sure I read about some famous horseback bowmen sometime in history.

I have to say I'm not too bothered by lack of mounted combat, but I am disappointed at 9 Divines & staves being out.

I do remember riding a horse for the first time in daggerfall - through the snow and thinking it was cool... just a graphic of a horses head appeared at the bottom of the screen along with the sound of hooves & extra speed...

 

[Chefe]

Yeah I heard about the dl'able horsie armour too - what the hell is the point of that when you can't fight from your horse?

I believe the horsie armor is there to protect your horse from being killed while you have to take time to stop the horse, dismount the thing, pull out your weapon, and attack the baddies. Man, being attacked in the wilderness while on a horse sure is going to be really fucking annoying.

I read about another downloadable thing too: holidays. That's cool, really cool. Too bad they're not shipping it with the game and are instead going to force you to download and/or buy it.

 

[Tintin]

Picture this - you're standing and you are trying to fight this guy who's above you. The name of the guy is cliffracer. 'nuff said.

When a horseman approaches, you either dodge or hit or both. (Have you seen Gladiator?). If you have a bow, it's even easier - dodge and shoot him in the back as he rides past you.

It's not about killing the horseman, it's about you being the horseman. I don't think some wild monster can do that strategy you just listed.

Picture this - you're standing and you are trying to fight this guy who's above you. The name of the guy is cliffracer. 'nuff said.

Cliffraces are stupid creatures. They don't have a human brain. If the player was a cliffracer, the game would again be too easy.

 

[Chefe]

Wild creatures? They just get in the way anyways. What wild creature has ever given you a problem in Arena, Daggerfall, or Morrowind? They're just annoyances. This game doesn't have huge bosses that are lurking around in some dark part of the forest. And with the Minotaur, he's big enough to fight you while you're on horseback at least with those huge balls of his.

As for bandits you might meet in the wild, if they're not smart enough to whip out a bow when you come charging with your steed than this "Radiant AI" is really a pile of shit.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Basic military history compels me to post:
Heavy Infantry>Heavy Cavalry
Light Infantry>Light Cavalry
Light Infantry>Heavy Infantry (unless they can't keep their distance)
Light Cavalry>Heavy Cavalry (same as above)
Heavy Cavalry>Light Infantry (good luck out running a horse)

That's for ancient combat, modern is a bit more like this
Anti-tank>tank
Anti-air>air
air>tank
tank>anti-air (some anti-air stuff can also be used against tanks, but not most)
air>anti-bank (kind of the same as above)
small arms/artillery>anti-tank
small arms/artillery>anti-air
tank>small arms/artilley
air>small arms/artillery

 

[crufty]

And...axes were used with great effectiveness against calvary. To help defend against calvary, sometimes 1 or 2 shield bearers would be employed in combination with the axeman to protect the axeman from mounted assault

Now, how cool a tactic would that be to employ--or to see employed against you? So maybe you run like hell from mounted attacks--until you can hire 2 henchmen to hold shields for you. Pipe dream.

Still, having horses > no horses.

 

[Sarkile]

Weren't crossbows also effective against cavalry...? Oh right.