On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

[AstralStorm]

A) Paleocapitalism based on mutually assured destruction. However, such strong demands suggest that zebra owners would price-gouge, dropping the efficiency of this solution and causing problems down the line, such as unrest. We could grow a poor caste just because of a whim of zebra trainers.

B) Paleocommunism; however since the elder council is leading it, there's a risk of this devolving into a bureaucracy and corruption. Plus also (temporary if the leadership is smart) unrest in the tribe.
Might be a decent option for a small group, where everyone's needs are known.

C) No idea, is that an entry into clan leadership like representative democracy or something? (see above about the risks)
We've voted for elder council already... Perhaps a place there for each group representative?
If the owners of zebras actually really need something, they could voice it. However, why should one group be granted more status?
But of course later, situation would change and the group in power could change... and since zebra keepers depend on something impermanent, this could be a short time.

Unless this means giving them some "religious" significance. Hmm.

I'd vote C.

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

B. Uppity cave jews, wonderful. As Vernydar already said, their heightened importance is temporary, and in the long run, they can no more survive without others than others without them. Plus, what kind of asshat preys on his own in their desperate times?

By the way, how did we jump to private ownership? Weren't providers already pooling resources in tribal societies?

 

[Lindblum]

B. Isn't the protection of the tribe enough?
Why don't we just banish his selfish ass and make sure hope that an accident occurs like a rock to the back of his skull.

The council of Old Fags is not to be trifled with.

 

[Curufinwe]

B. Uppity cave jews, wonderful. As Vernydar already said, their heightened importance is temporary, and in the long run, they can no more survive without others than others without them. Plus, what kind of asshat preys on his own in their desperate times?

By the way, how did we jump to private ownership? Weren't providers already pooling resources in tribal societies?

That's the whole point. We didn't. The tamer in the update just realized he and a few others are the only ones who know how to best use what is now a critical resource, so he's making up this 'private property' and 'rewards' craziness. :p

 

[oscar]

B, now certainly isn't the time for competitive market capitalism.

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

That's the whole point. We didn't. The tamer in the update just realized he and a few others are the only ones who know how to best use what is now a critical resource, so he's making up this 'private property' and 'rewards' craziness. :p

Ah, right, I had a brainfart there, sorry: somehow, "his livestock confiscated" got stuck in my head and I forgot the premise. Slow morning.

 

[oscar]

I think having his livestock confiscated is a bit much. Would be better to politely but firmly tell this Neanderjew to get fucked and remind him of his duties and that his relative importance and relative overburdening is only temporary.

 

[Internet]

C. We realize we need to appease the tamers to survive this time of hardship. Therefore we have the tribe women give each of them a necklace made with the shinest rocks/shells that could be found. The tamers proudly wear their new garments.

 

[oscar]

Yeah, what's the policy on proposing new ideas? If they get overwhelming support and are realistic within the scenario can they be used?

 

[Curufinwe]

I had given brief thought about that a few days ago. It is a double-edged sword for me. On one hand, it could and would be a very entertaining mechanic for the LP. On the other hand, it would make things harder for me on the planning department, but that's ok. What I'm really afraid of is the meta-gaming risk given by hindsight. If we were in a high-tech or sci-fi setting it wouldn't be too much of a problem, but where we are now we could end up with way too smart proposals fixing any past 'mistake' you did in choices.
What I had originally thought of was to occasionally make open-ended, longer delayed updates (2-3 days instead of the standard 1) where you decide what to do with just the input but no pre-made choices.

I am trying to give updates with as few as possible clear-cut choices, every choice I presented has some benefits and risks associated with it, both short and long-term. If I give you total freedom, while again it would be fun, my fear is you would, being 21st century Homo Sapiens, mainly come up with perfectly reasonable ideas that would eventually make our civilization a Mary Sue, which I think we can all agree would suck.

For example in the current scenario I agree with your observation that complete confiscation is a bit much and decidedly knee-jerkly and most likely counterproductive on some levels, but it was the pissed off hunters who thought of it.
I can think of about 100 better decisions for the problem, but better isn't, in this case, more fun imo.

In other news I'm currently working on mapping out the areas you know, so expect a map to crop up soon (TM) to give some geographical context to the LP. :p

 

[Vernydar]

I have to agree here. If we were given the possibility to pick our own solution to problems, we would inevitably end up metagaming. After all, even if we do not know this world, we know too much compared to the poor tribesmen and we would pick choices that would advance us by thousands of years....

Regarding this choice, I think we all understand that choice a) leads down to barter, and then eventually trade. But it's far too soon for something like that. We're still struggling for survival, and so we do not really have the time to waste resources on something like that. If we go sedentary, then maybe after a while we can think of it. Or maybe barter will appear when we end up meeting other tribes. But now it way too soon...

Btw, yay I was right, we shall have a river! Fresh water is no longer going to be a problem, and maybe we can fish some too!

 

[Jick Magger]

I'll pick B, we aren't ready for Capitalism just yet. People who don't want to be team players need to be 'coerced' to our way of thinking.




I also agree that we shouldn't be able to make our own solutions. At best, we could be allowed to make our own solution once every few updates. Otherwise we'd probably get too metagamey.

 

[Stygian Lurker]

B, now certainly isn't the time for competitive market capitalism.

 

[Curufinwe]

Giving a forewarning: update will be a bit earlier than usual, most likely in an hour or so. Even a nerd like me has some scrap of social life left, so going out. But fear not, the update will be posted, with it the first map as well. So if you're waiting for a last minute vote, don't wait too long or it might end up as 'too' last minute. :D

 

[Monty]

What? 'Going out' on a Saturday night taking precedence over writing an imaginary LP for your loyal readers? Sad times.

 

[Curufinwe]

What? 'Going out' on a Saturday night taking precedence over writing an imaginary LP for your loyal readers? Sad times.

Oi! I can and will do both! :D I don't play favorites!

That said, might as well do the update, the vote for B was almost unanimous.

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While the tribe finally made its way towards the river running near the base of the big rock, a consensus was reached. The greedy tamer was removed from his beasts, chastised and made to work for the good of the tribe as the lowliest of the scavengers.

The other tamers grumbled, but thankfully they were kept too busy by what happened next to turn grumbling into anything worse: we finally caught up with the great herd. Its back to the river, the zebras were easy pickings, thanks to the guile of our tamers and the help of the keepers of fire.

A great bounty of beasts was harvested, soon replenishing our herds and prompting the elder council to declare a great feast. Great fires were lift and lighted the grass for days, while we made merry and forgot about our worries for a time.

The river, as large as fifty of us standing on top of one another would be tall, came out of the side of the mountain facing the great plains, then turned around towards us and finally turned again, heading straight to the hills far in the distance. The mountain rose up, sheer, imposing, to a great height, most of its tip capped in white.

But even during these days, a decision had to be made: where to stop now?

Our forward ranging scouts presented four choices:

A. We could stop on this side of the river. The grassland still surrounding us, the looming great rock in front and within exploring reach, it would resemble our old living conditions without water concerns.
B. We could find a crossing and stop on the other side of the river, just below the lower slopes of the mountains.
C. On the side facing the plains, just under the great mountain the river split, circling a rocky outcrop. We would be surrounded on all sides by water.
D. Our most daring scout had actually climbed the lower, sparsely forested slopes of the mountain facing us and found, before turning back, a sheer wall of rock presenting several cave entrances.

I did promise maps, didn't I? Hope the quality is decent enough, I'm not exactly an expert at doing this.

Green is the plains we traversed, that brownish-yellow is not a desert, it's the drier and larger plains your scouts glimpsed spreading to the south. North are hills, west is the ancestral forest we left.

 

[Vernydar]

I am SO undecided by this, I need to think

A seems the least useful. Ok, more grass for the zebras to eat. BUT we are not encouraged to learn fishing, or to get the stone, and the eventual metals...
B seems a happy medium. Space for grazing, the river, maybe with some fishing. And in easy reach of the mountain, so maybe stone. Seems a good choice..
C well, it's well defended, and it would surely encourage us to learn building canoe. And also, fishing for sure. But it's not very comfortable without bridges :p
D protection from elements, from the cold, ease of keeping fire. It's a good basic shelter, and now we have fire so we can explore the caves. Also, we're assured to get stone, maybe metals too. But, it's the worst for food

I need to think.. In my opinion A is the worst, we gain nothing new, but the others are all good...

 

[SCO]

Ask those dumbfuck hunters which side of the mountain the rain falls
if it snows, it will snow worse there.
edit: oh, it's not a range.

Hmmm volcano detected?

River is good. River is mobility and food. We are upriver though. We have to be the ones with the initiative to start trade.

About B well, maybe trouble if accosted by superior numbers, but maybe the tribe can retreat to the caves with enough warning - and it seems defensible. Maybe not quite as much as the rock on the middle of the river or the caves, but still near all resources.
I'm worried about floods. And herds won't have as much grazing space though, before the bridge tech is invented.

C or D is unacceptable for the herders : they would split into another tribe.

What's the size of the river? A mighty one, like Nilo, Amazonas or something more akin to 20 meters of water?
edit: nvm, can't be that big with only one spring.

I vote B until someone offers a better argument.

 

[Vernydar]

I do not care much about the zebras to be honest, they have proved to be unreliable. We can have fishing, that's a lot better. Or shelter. And also, on the mountain.. we could find sheep, or goats.

Anyway, I'm really undecided this time :p

Choosing A is in my opinion the worst by far anyway. We gain nothing, we learn nothing new...

SCO : the river is about 80m wide. A big one.... it's written up there

 

[oscar]

B

Was considering A just as I like the idea of us becoming a zebra riding horde.

 

[Tigranes]

B seems a no brainer at the moment - natural water boundary, there are some plains on this side as well, we can also access the mountains. That said, I suppose if that tiny river on the map is so large, the mountain too must be massive - that means it's actually quite far from the plains, and if there happen to be any hostile things / people in the caves we have no retreat.

C just doesn't seem right though, would we have the ability to navigate such a big river?

 

[Curufinwe]

Disclaimer: don't take the icons of the map to completely represent accurate correlations. Forgive me, but I don't want to spend my life drawing perfect maps that could be used by Google Earth

 

[Monty]

Hmmm, Dale or Smaug's cave.

Think I'll jump on the B bandwagon.

 

[SCO]

It's gonna flood in spring. 80 meters? That shit is gonna get worse when the ice really starts to melt all at once. Unless it's spring now?

 

[Hirato]

Jumping on the Bandwagon

It seems the ideal spot, we're in range of water and can retreat to the mountains come periods of flood and heavy rains