Outward - open world RPG where you are an ordinary adventurer and survival is harsh

[Deleted Member 16721]

So I started to mess with magic more and I'm liking it more and more I use it. I would love to see the number of combinations and spells increased, cuz right now there's a bunch of different 'types' of magic but few spells in each. The fact that you can combo spells is awesome too.

The game really is a wonderful base -- and a good add-in, NOTR style, DLC would do wonders.

I'm particularly enjoying the use of 'Reveal Soul' and 'Spark'.

Yeah, magic is cool. I used the arcane trap while enemies chased me as my main playstyle. It was surprisingly very fun. Dangerous for both my character and the enemies. Could also see myself using ethereal sword and decay claymore too in a future playthrough. And yeah, reveal souls is great. Can use it all over the place.

 

[HoboForEternity]

is the swamp the most dangerous map in the game? i kicked everything in chernoneese and enmekar, when i got to the marshes and met those little blue dog dinosaur thing i think they would be easy until they attacked me. barely escaped with my life into the city. that is because i ran into a bandit and they aggro'd each other.

 

[polo]

There is a lot of friendly fire in the swamp, but yeah i think the strongest enemies are there. I hate abrassar fire beetles tho.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

almost 20 hour in i just realizedd there is a heavy attack button with the middle of your mouse that you can combo wiht your regular attack

WHAT. Are you serious? I'm 30 hours in and did not know this.

There is an autorun button also.

Please don't tell me there is a jump button as well, that is just obscure and hard to find.

 

[Murk]

is the swamp the most dangerous map in the game? i kicked everything in chernoneese and enmekar, when i got to the marshes and met those little blue dog dinosaur thing i think they would be easy until they attacked me. barely escaped with my life into the city. that is because i ran into a bandit and they aggro'd each other.

Those things charge you hard and do major damage -- if you go unlocked and prioritize dodging them (not dodge-roll, but run/sprint to side) you'll be fine.

If you have any ranged/DOT that always helps of course. It's probably complicated more by them almost always being in packs.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

There is no saving and loading. Well, technically the game is saving all the time but you have no control over it and you can't save scum, reload a bad choice, avoid a death, etc.

There is a whole bunch of different ways to prevent save scuming without removing the ability to manually save the game.
Guess I'll have to create another character just to experiment with the mechanics.

Cooldown is fine here, it works.

Dude cooldowns in games with action combat is not fine, because they are too out of the player's control and arbitrary. Imagine how retarded a game like Severance/NIOH/Dark Messiah would be if you had to wait for the game to let you do something as basic as a kick or jump attack.
The only exception were they can work is if we're talking about some super abilities that change your PC is drastic ways.

Just play the game but understand that if you lose all your Health you will be subject to a random "loss scenario" which could impede your progress or throw you for a loop.

That sounds retarded. Could you explain it a bit more please?

Those giant swords that look like typical tiny-penis compensators you see in so many jRPGs

The fuck you just say about big swords mate?

So what's the point of the survival elements? Survive the game!?

It adds another layer of danger to the world. When well done it does make gameplay more engaging.
I do see why some people don't like it. I was like that too, since I associated it with those bland survival games of the early 2010's. But then I tried it in games like New Vegas, the Enderal Mod and Breath of the Wild. It's neat, but again only when well done otherwise it can really be boring.

 

[Renevent]

There is a whole bunch of different ways to prevent save scuming without removing the ability to manually save the game.
Guess I'll have to create another character just to experiment with the mechanics.

If you're so hellbent to save scum just put a file named DEBUG.txt in the data folder of the game. This enables the developer mode and you can reload previous character checkpoints.

 

[Elex]

Wow, I just beat the game! Pretty neat. Very fun overall, liked it a lot, instant classic for me, my kind of thing. Kinda sad it's over already though. I could play through as another faction but I think I'll set it down for awhile now and return it to later when it's fresh again. Good stuff.

what happened in the faction storyline?
i want to know if the 3 faction have completely different storyline or the end is the same for all.

 

[polo]

almost 20 hour in i just realizedd there is a heavy attack button with the middle of your mouse that you can combo wiht your regular attack

WHAT. Are you serious? I'm 30 hours in and did not know this.

There is an autorun button also.

Please don't tell me there is a jump button as well, that is just obscure and hard to find.

Since i play with a controller it took me like 20h+ to find out about the autorun button. Actually i would've never find out about it if it wasnt for a stream i was watching.

 

[Van-d-all]

I think the respawning is actually connected to huge amounts of backtracking the game is prone to, and personally I don't mind it.

Exactly, it's that way by design, not to copy some MMO.

One does not exclude the other. It's not like the respawns in MMO are happening by chance. It's a design decision to alleviate the lack of content during backtracking through the same areas.

 

[polo]

THis game shares a lot of design choices with many MMOs, its pretty evident.

 

[Van-d-all]

THis game shares a lot of design choices with many MMOs, its pretty evident.

I think it comes from having the same design principle - maximization of playtime, even if it comes from different background. MMOs want to be a service obviously, whereas Outward strives for a weird sense of realism, which I personally find rather misguided in two cases.

This game purposely puts weight on mundane repeatable tasks, to a point where you actually have to "work" for some time just to have "fun" some other time.

Strict limitations on inventory space combined with awful weight / price ratio of loot leaves you either a) packmuleing your way back and forth, b) underfunded should you focus only on expansive stuff, or c) just straight up "working" by making money runs, farming hackamite spawns or whatever. The game should just have some kind of transmute spell like Dungeon Siege to just turn all the trash to gold at some reasonable loss whilst providing a steady means of progression that's not connected to ridiculous chores.

Same goes for fast travel. I'm all in for exploration and the need to reach every place by foot first, but honestly every map had me running back and forth so many times I'd really consider some kind of purchasable ferrystones, or a mount, just any kind of method that allows me to at least get back to town on current map in a timely fashion, because simply put, backtracking that same way brings absolutely nothing to the game and 90% of the time everything is dead & looted already, because I did it on my way up, so I'm just wasting 5 minutes running through empty spaces.

BUT then finishing those, what 18?, quests it has would take 40h tops.

 

[Van-d-all]

On another note, after ~80h and having tried all the classes throughout 6 or 7 different characters & builds - MELEE combat sucks. Just sucks. No buts.

Firstly because the AI is trash and all what it does is try to attack you, yet has some serious issues even connecting a proper hit. Seeing troglodytes fight Zephyrien in HM Conflux, both trying to hit those tiny spear thrusts is just hilariously bad. In this regard, hard enemies are just made to spam damage by either close range AOE like the mana mantis, or by murder combos like the Tuanosaur.

What's even worse, the game actually embraces the bad AI, by having a whole elaborate system of traps in place that essentially leads to kiting. The idea of combat preparation is fine & old as RPGs itself, but chugging potions in BG or preparing mutagens in Witcher is a trivial task, kept in line with immersion, but setting up traps is menial in the long run, and kiting seems plain exploitative.

As if it's all not enough, the only thing the AI is quite competent in doing is actually blocking and evading, and doing so is extremely effective as it nullifies the effects of all but few attacks, to a point where whole skills, classes even become pretty useless. The prime offenders here, are chakram magic and rogue dagger skills. If enemy avoids your weapon skill it's not THAT major, because you just have that one cooldown skill, so well, shit happens. But when you have an entire class dedicated to such skills it just feels pointless to sink your resources into it. You can wait with those skills until their guard is broken, but at this point you are already winning anyway, and again a) you don't learn a ranged chakram skill to use it in melee b) rogue using 1H weapons takes quite some time to break a parry.

So essentially it's just not worth the effort to go into melee and the default combat sequence becomes a shitfest of kiting and traps/ranged attacks on cooldown/waiting for status effect kills. Just anything that keeps you ot of harms way, usually running in moronic circles.

On top of that most monsters drop utterly shit loot as if the game was coercing you to just run away from them. It's just weird.

 

[Murk]

DJOGamer PT

Upon death, you respawn in an area (often with your HP and other vitals severely diminished and in pain); which area you respawn in depends on where/how you died.

So if you're just out and about, maybe a friendly NPC finds you and takes you back to their camp/safe area, maybe Elatt intervenes and protects you, maybe you get captured by bandits and enslaved, or maybe trogs carry you off into their cave to try to eat you. Sometimes guards from town find you and carry you back to town.

I was told that you can "lose" your stuff but with the exception of the very first time that I died (I think I lost my silver but now I'm not so sure I wasn't just checking in the wrong area [pockets/backpack]), I have never lost a single item.

Supposedly there's 90 such variations.

edit: reading the post above me, I almost feel like it's describing another game. Oh well.

 

[polo]

I agree the AI could be seriously improved, but if u think the melee combat sucks, idk what would you call a good melee combat system.

 

[Van-d-all]

I agree the AI could be seriously improved, but if u think the melee combat sucks, idk what would you call a good melee combat system.

Depends on the genre. Turn based obviously - TOEE, D:OS1, AoD, Battle Brothers, Front Mission 3-5. Difficulty based action - Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Sekiro. Action arcade - Dragons Dogma, Dark Messiah of M&M. Hack & slash - Path of Exile. Not to menntion bazzilions of serviceable systems like jRPG ATB or active pause BG/IWD/Pathfinder. Defending Outward's combat to me, is like saying halfassed systems akin to Gothic 1/2 slog or Witcher 1 clikado were ok. Seriously even shitty games often are able to make a semblance of something competent like F4 trying to be an FPS, The Surge doing Dark Souls or Technomancer doing whatever the fuck it is (Jade Empires maybe). An yet, I'm certain Codex will defend Outward's combat (Gothic 1 even) just for the sake of other game values as a whole. To me combat needs to be fun, punishing and challenging but still, and running around waiting for a debuff to kill something only because it's the safest way to do it is the polar opposite of fun. It's a waste of time.

 

[Van-d-all]

edit: reading the post above me, I almost feel like it's describing another game. Oh well.

How exactly? Do you find the completely nullable skills worthwhile? Are uninterruptible enemies fun to fight? Is combat designed around zombie AI incline? I bet majority of people actually succeeding in Outward's combat are just spamming Flamethrower/Burn or [Extreme]Pain. Maybe poison. I really tried everything I could come up with, and the best degree of satisfactory combat came from ranged magic, because it's TTK mostly alleviates the need to run circles around brain dead enemies.

 

[Murk]

edit: reading the post above me, I almost feel like it's describing another game. Oh well.

How exactly? Do you find the completely nullable skills worthwhile? Are uninterruptible enemies fun to fight? Is combat designed around zombie AI incline? I bet majority of people actually succeeding in Outward's combat are just spamming Flamethrower/Burn or [Extreme]Pain. Maybe poison. I really tried everything I could come up with, and the best degree of satisfactory combat came from ranged magic, because it's TTK mostly alleviates the need to run circles around brain dead enemies.

Completely nullable skills? Disagree.

Uninterruptible? You can break their impact bar to less than half and interrupt them -- this can be done with a single hit from a 1h mace, or by stacking impact on other weapons (and very easily with 2h weapons.). Shit there's a pistol (the hand cannon) that's designed for this and any other pistol can be loaded with the special bullet that basically means every fight starts with the opponent on the ground or at a depleted impact gauge.

I don't think the AI is particularly worse than many other 3rd person action RPGs -- different enemies have different types of attacks, and the stronger enemies (path finders, man hunters) emphasize dodging and blocking more than basic bandits. It's nothing great, but I don't think it's especially bad. It's not very advanced but then nothing in the game is _very advanced_, though it's not an impediment either. I'll take this method over any of the witcher games or even divinity 2.

Dunno man, if you're not enjoying it then I guess you're not enjoying it. I don't think there's anything I can say that will change your mind if you have tens of hours in the game and thought the combat was weak -- though I disagree.

Though reading your post about Gothic 1/2 being halfassed kind of drives the point. I thought Gothic 1/2 had fine combat. I played the shit out of the 3 dark souls games, but I don't think every game needs that combat system.

Though I am continuously surprised why Risen 1's combat system seems to be so hard to recreate when it was plenty fine for a more fleshed out RPG than what the souls games are.

 

[Van-d-all]

Well I really try to play the game in enjoyable way, and Technomancer (and Remember Me) is the best example here I think. The combat doesn't fell particularly good there, but is still good enough that you DO come into close range to dish it out and NOT actively avoid close quarters like in Outward.

As for the interrupt system I honestly think it's emergent more than designed. It's weird that enemies get up almost instantly, so that effectively the only way to actually fight in melee is balancing that bar around the middle, it does require modicum of skill but still, is overal inefficient compared to other means of combat. That's what I find inexcusably bad. That and the trap kiting.

Though reading your post about Gothic 1/2 being halfassed kind of drives the point. I thought Gothic 1/2 had fine combat. I played the shit out of the 3 dark souls games, but I don't think every game needs that combat system.

This somewhat extends to Gothic 1/2. I understand what those games do. They take a mathematical approach to difficulty in action combat, where the system actually punishes you to a point where you simply need to have better equipment to succeed, because it forces most outcomes to remain within numerical DPS brackets. It's relied poorly compared to, say, typical AD&D where you just can't break AC/DR resistance and knowing this I'd be somewhat ok-ish with that. However, Gothic 1/2 also have completely sluggish response times, cumbersome controls, wonky hitboxes and stiff animations. THAT makes it bad.

 

[Murk]

I disagree almost entirely with your assessment of Gothic 1/2's combat, especially regarding response time, hitboxes, and animations. I found this was one of the cleanest and tightest experiences regarding melee combat I've had, especially with how quickly you can alternate from an attack to a parry to a combo. The only limiting issue is movement which I believe was by design -- this they changed in Gothic 3/Risen 1, and in doing so combat became much, much easier (though in Gothic 3's case, much much worse).

85% of my combat in outward with enemies that don't get killed in 2 or fewer hits is me up close, playing unlocked. I play it like I would a souls game in which I dodge enemy attacks by moving away or rolling and punish their opening/recovery, with the added ability to use special melee attacks that help to close the gap. I'm only disappointed that weapon movesets aren't more varied from one another and that enemies don't use every trick available to the player.

 

[Van-d-all]

Also...

Completely nullable skills? Disagree.

Disagree all you want. That's how the game works. Aside from Warrior Monk's Perfect Strike, if the enemy parries your skill is forfeit.

 

[Van-d-all]

I disagree almost entirely with your assessment of Gothic 1/2's combat, especially regarding response time, hitboxes, and animations.

This pretty much sums up why we won't come to an agreement.

 

[Murk]

There are skills that close the gap, that do AOE damage, that let you inflict status effects, that deflect and counter (giving you a boon or removing one), that rely on you having effects or previous attack-skills set up in advance or being positioned correctly with your enemy...

... like I said, it's almost as if you played a different game.

I disagree almost entirely with your assessment of Gothic 1/2's combat, especially regarding response time, hitboxes, and animations.

This pretty much sums up why we won't come to an agreement.

Yes.

 

[Van-d-all]

There are skills that close the gap, that do AOE damage, that let you inflict status effects, that deflect and counter (giving you a boon or removing one), that rely on you having effects or previous attack-skills set up in advance or being positioned correctly with your enemy...

All melee AOE skills are parryable. Majority of status effects rely on damage over time, which is hardly combat. There are 3 or 4 parryable counter skills out of around 20 others, indeed, my bad, so let me rephrase: "80% of melee skills are nullable, the rest has a 100s cooldown". Only Backstab relies on positioning.

 

[Murk]

There are skills that close the gap, that do AOE damage, that let you inflict status effects, that deflect and counter (giving you a boon or removing one), that rely on you having effects or previous attack-skills set up in advance or being positioned correctly with your enemy...

All melee AOE skills are parryable. Majority of status effects rely on damage over time, which is hardly combat. There are 3 or 4 parryable counter skills out of around 20 others, indeed, my bad, so let me rephrase: "80% of melee skills are nullable, the rest has a 100s cooldown". Only Backstab relies on positioning.

Pain/Confusion/Slow are status effects with no DOT, and there are skills like Shield Charge, Perfect Strike, or Predator Leap that use positioning to an advantage (and evasion shot if you plan to main a bow).

Melee skills can be blocked, sure, so? You listed the souls games as good examples of combat and in that nearly all melee attacks (including most special ones) can be blocked -- in fact, even magic can be blocked if you have the right shield.

Though I don't disagree on the cool downs being frustrating and limiting.

Anyway, I think we're going in circles here. Sorry you didn't enjoy it more.