Anime Overwatch

[Zombra]

You can easily have characters that require both and do nothing but make the game more fun, competitive, and strategic.

Any way you slice it, you're mad that a team can win without sweet headshots. "Inspired use of Sym turrets stymied my entire team despite our 'fundamentals'? B-but you didn't make sweet headshots!! You can't win that way!" That is limited, self-centered thinking. "If only the whole playerbase was more like me everything would be perfect." Honestly I don't see why you ever played this game in the first place, it clearly wasn't made for you from day one.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

FFS just play the game more you'll see that majority of players don't want to play those boring characters and only do so to win by requirement of meta.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

You can easily have characters that require both and do nothing but make the game more fun, competitive, and strategic.

Any way you slice it, you're mad that a team can win without sweet headshots. "Inspired use of Sym turrets stymied my entire team despite our 'fundamentals'? B-but you didn't make sweet headshots!! You can't win that way!" That is limited, self-centered thinking. "If only the whole playerbase was more like me everything would be perfect." Honestly I don't see why you ever played this game in the first place, it clearly wasn't made for you from day one.

It is frustrating to play vs auto aim. It is not fun to play with auto aim. Most people agree. To you all these things are new and shiny but give it enough time and you will be singing along with the rest of us who quit the game. Your being absurdly reductionist which makes me think your just not a fan of the genre. And if that is the case why are you even arguing about it.

 

[Zombra]

Your being absurdly reductionist

It's a quick way to cut to the heart of an argument. Obviously I know being a good Widow requires more than clicking a lot for example. But the mindset of being a sweet sniper is a stark microcosm of the whole tough guy "be like me or lose" attitude.

Most people agree.

I don't see any complaints about the existence of these characters on the official forums. Is this "most people" you and a few friends you've talked to by chance? Out of the estimated 40 million OW players? Or are you going to say that "well those people who don't agree with me don't count"?

Not that popularity means something is good, but when I see someone start appealing to some mythical internet majority "that totally agrees with me!!" I know they've lost anything relevant to say.

FFS just play the game more you'll see that majority of players don't want to play those boring characters and only do so to win by requirement of meta.

I'm honestly confused. Why would you recommend I play more if the high level game is so bad? Blizzard isn't going to change OW into Counterstrike 2 for hardcore players only. They never ever intended that and they never ever will. I still don't get why you play it at all if you find the gameplay so offensive.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

Zombra can you stop. You just got into the game. You have literally no clue how players feel about it.

You don't see the thread because most people moved on. Every season was made worse. I have no clue how they managed to fuck up such promising game that was so fun season 1-3 into this bullshit.

Here pro player talking about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQV1Gy68KOk

Here ex top OW streamer talking about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNArgqvoX1M

This is recent. Most complaining has been done seasons 4-5 after sr inflation where they had massive streamer/player drop due to people losing faith.

Before you say LUL its just sample of two. No I just don't want to spend my evening digging up threads/vids/clips just to satisfy your pseudo skepticism.

 

[abija]

Memorizing numbers is not an interesting mechanic to have in fps. You r not arguing in good faith.

Saying that after linking to a rapha video... you know the guy actually counting ammo...

Btw Rapha, Dahang and Cooller were in a support position in their teams in OW because there are tons of players much better at aiming (that "quintessential fps mechanic") in the game while their quake background made them very good at decision making.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

Memorizing numbers is not an interesting mechanic to have in fps. You r not arguing in good faith.

Saying that after linking to a rapha video... you know the guy actually counting ammo...

Btw Rapha, Dahang and Cooller were in a support position in their teams in OW because there are tons of players much better at aiming (that "quintessential fps mechanic") in the game while their quake background made them very good at decision making.

Yea obviously a game can have timings etc to remember that is good mechanic. But they aren't reciting pi to the nth digit. The whole point is some mechanics are good for gameplay some aren't. Some numbers lead to deeper decision making and some don't. Auto aim reduces fun and depth. And so on and so forth.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Here is the thing tho when it comes to moba like skills, it is really shallow and if people like that sorta thing just play dota. I do. The "A lot of difference skills" is just an excuse bad players give when they don't have fps fundamentals. Every character requires decision making which is basically what you call "different skills". It's just some characters flat out don't require ANY fps ability to play. Good example of support that requires btoh is zen or maybe ana, zarya for tank, and a lot of dps characters. Characters like Moira, Brigitti, Winston, etc... are not any more difficult in decision making then the well designed characters. They don't require additional "different skills". They are just flat out boring casual designs that only remove from the game. And frankly it doesn't bother me if there is 1-2 such characters for people that legitimately can't aim for whatever reason. But when the entire meta is built around clicking in general direction - that is not longer an fps. Early s1-3 meta was way better before they went full casual with hero designs.

If you don't see a problem with that, you just don't enjoy fps games and should instead play any of the excellent moba games that exist. It is rather annoying tho that criticizing fps for lack of good fps fundamentals is seen by someone as somehow elitist or whatever. Just apply it to any other genre like fighting games. No one would be surprised for fighting game was being criticized for lacking good skillful fgc fundamentals like rewarding reads and framde data knowledge.

The point is there's not such a thing called FPS fundamentals. There's not "FPS abilities". There is a general amount abilities that games require to be played, grounding of them in different levels. There's aiming, positioning, reflexes, execution, strategy... and those abilities are required in a lot of different games in different proportion (You don't aim in an issometric strategy game). The problem here is you are judging Overwatch by the standards you think are convenient, in this case by the abilities that arena shooters tend to encourage in the past. This is an absolutely mistake. Because there's a lot of different FPS games that doesn't match those standards, and that doesn't make them bad or flawed instantly by definition. Just try to judge Counter strike or Rainbow six Siege, which are slow strategical FPS with that vision. It's absolutely non sensical.

In Overwatch, the characters have different bases and vary in usage difficulty (The skill you need to play them and the skill that you can develop playing them). This is the core of the game as the game itself tells you, and it's not an appreciation. Having characters who are melee based like Rein or Briggitte that doesn't requiere hardcore aiming or extreme moving and strafing doesn't make them MOBA characters. They just require others abilites to be played. Abilities that Widowmaker (Which is about pure aiming skills) or Tracer (Which is about pure moving skills) doesn't encourage for example. Currently, the meta is based in stun blocking dive comps. Genji is absolutely out of the game and he needs a buff (While he always has being a very played and powerful character) That's why there's a couple of "pro players" blaming the game. It has nothing to do with casual hero design. It has to do with people without having the possibility of playing comfortably what they want to play anymore. The funny thing is that Blizzard is currently reworking the most braindead characters of the game. Symmetra got redesigned, now she requires to aim properly. The next reworked character according to Blizzard will be Torbjorn.

I don't see a problem with that. I've playing a lot of FPS games in my life. Both singleplayers and multiplayers. And I enjoy what Overwatch offers to me. I don't find that offering neither in other hero based FPS (Like Team fortress 2 or Dirtybomb) or MOBAs (Wtf is this retardation of calling a character based game "MOBA"?). I can apply this to fighing games if you want. To how Street fighter requieres different abilities in different proportions to be played in comparison with Tekken (Positioning and moving is completely different due the fact one is 2D and the other is on 3D. There's almost no aerial factor in Tekken, etc), or compare Tekken with Virtua fighter (Two extremely different fighing game that looks samey for casuals just for being in 3D). The only requeriment of a fighting game is being about fighting. Same goes for FPS. I just hope you don't start nitpicking the word "shooter" in "First person shooter"... I don't want to stop considering Hexen as a FPS.

 

[Zombra]

Yea obviously a game can have timings etc to remember that is good mechanic. But they aren't reciting pi to the nth digit. The whole point is some mechanics are good for gameplay some aren't. Some numbers lead to deeper decision making and some don't.

You're really focusing on the wrong thing here. Memorizing numbers was an intentionally stupid example of a skill that some people have developed and some haven't. Sweet aiming is another skill some people have developed and some haven't. I said memorizing numbers is required for a good game and you disagreed (and you're supposed to disagree, it was a reductio ad absurdum example). You say sweet aiming is required for a good game but Blizzard disagrees with you (and 40 million players appear to agree with Blizzard, at least enough to keep playing).

The entire argument was intended to highlight the fact that "The things I like must be in every game, and people are wrong if they like other things" is silly. You walked into the trap and got torn to pieces by it ... apparently without even noticing.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

Yea obviously a game can have timings etc to remember that is good mechanic. But they aren't reciting pi to the nth digit. The whole point is some mechanics are good for gameplay some aren't. Some numbers lead to deeper decision making and some don't.

You're really focusing on the wrong thing here. Memorizing numbers was an intentionally stupid example of a skill that some people have developed and some haven't. Sweet aiming is another skill some people have developed and some haven't. I said memorizing numbers is required for a good game and you disagreed (and you're supposed to disagree, it was a reductio ad absurdum example). You say sweet aiming is required for a good game but Blizzard disagrees with you (and 40 million players appear to agree with Blizzard, at least enough to keep playing).

The entire argument was intended to highlight the fact that "The things I like must be in every game, and people are wrong if they like other things" is silly. You walked into the trap and got torn to pieces by it ... apparently without even noticing.

40m accounts not 40m players. Do a sanity check . Biggest game on steam has 600k right now. The game had everything. Pros quitting other games to play it. Steamers, youtubers all jumping on board. It had a good run and everyone bought it.

I am growing tired of arguing with people who aren't familiar with fps games or even competitive multiplayer games in general.

It feels like trying to explain to someone why fallout 2 is better then fallout 3. And you can't because their entire experience is playing modern AAA games. It is the same here. You play a few shooters on really low skill level and think that makes you remotely qualified to speak of competitive shooter design. You may have great taste in single player games and understand what makes a game good on that level. This is completely different beast.

It is obnoxious that I AM the one being accused of elitism when it is arrogance of higher order to just come in and say that all of us veteran fps players are wrong and all those mechanics developed through the years are just arbitrary. But ME the casual who hasn't played a ranked game in their life knows whats good design. Listen to yourselves ffs.

 

[Zombra]

It is obnoxious that I AM the one being accused of elitism when it is arrogance of higher order to just come in and say that all of us veteran fps players are wrong and all those mechanics developed through the years are just arbitrary. But ME the casual who hasn't played a ranked game in their life knows whats good design. Listen to yourselves ffs.

You are being elitist. You are an "FPS cultist". You're so attached to that label that it blinds you to everything except your favorite game. You keep saying "fps" like it's a magical word unearthed centuries ago by impenetrable sorcerers, monolithic and platonic, nullifying all other perspectives. It isn't and it doesn't.

I'm going to suggest a thought experiment. Take a deep breath and say to yourself 3 times:

Overwatch is not a first-person shooter.
Overwatch is not a first-person shooter.
Overwatch is not a first-person shooter.

It may be a first-person game, and it may contain shooting as part of its gameplay, but it is not a "first-person shooter" in the sense that you keep talking about, i.e. being good at sweet headshots is necessary for anyone to have fun playing it. It does not obey your rules and it was never intended to. It's a new game (and if you insist it doesn't conform sufficiently to "FPS" tropes, a new kind of game) with its own, new rules.

Now see if you can construct an argument that doesn't begin by saying "since it is an FPS (magic word!!) it has to blah blah blah".

And by the way, I'm willing to concede that the top 50 skill shot elite headshot ladder rank cultists all agree with you. I don't especially care about them, nor do I believe that their opinions reflect the needs of more casual players like myself, and I am absolutely not interested in playing a game designed by them.

Again: why do you play this game anyway? Why not COD or another "true FPS"?

 

[SkiNNyBane]

It is obnoxious that I AM the one being accused of elitism when it is arrogance of higher order to just come in and say that all of us veteran fps players are wrong and all those mechanics developed through the years are just arbitrary. But ME the casual who hasn't played a ranked game in their life knows whats good design. Listen to yourselves ffs.

You are being elitist. You are an "FPS cultist". You're so attached to that label that it blinds you to everything except your favorite game. You keep saying "fps" like it's a magical word unearthed centuries ago by impenetrable sorcerers, monolithic and platonic, nullifying all other perspectives. It isn't and it doesn't.

I'm going to suggest a thought experiment. Take a deep breath and say to yourself 3 times:

Overwatch is not a first-person shooter.
Overwatch is not a first-person shooter.
Overwatch is not a first-person shooter.

It may be a first-person game, and it may contain shooting as part of its gameplay, but it is not a "first-person shooter" in the sense that you keep talking about. It does not obey your rules and it was never intended to. It's a new game (and if you insist it doesn't conform sufficiently to "FPS" tropes, a new kind of game) with its own, new rules.

Now see if you can construct an argument that doesn't begin by saying "since it is an FPS (magic word!!) it has to blah blah blah".

And by the way, I'm willing to concede that the top 50 skill shot elite headshot ladder rank cultists all agree with you. I don't especially care about them, nor do I believe that their opinions reflect the needs of more casual players like myself, and I am absolutely not interested in playing a game designed by them.

Again: why do you play this game anyway? Why not COD or another "true FPS"?

Keep pretending that it isn't because it makes a satisfying mechanic that people enjoy being good at as part of the gameplay, but simply because "I worship the one true God aim the indubitable" or some other convenient lie too make your decline enabling more palatable.

It is an FPS, and it was good S1-3 which is when I played it the most. I left when it got shit along with majority of players. Why do you keep pretending I didn't say I quit the game?

And your own shit doesn't smell? Your argument for why aim isn't a good mechanic is surely very elaborate and based on years of fps experience right?

 

[Zombra]

Keep pretending that it isn't because it makes a satisfying mechanic that people enjoy being good at as part of the gameplay, but simply because "I worship the one true God aim the indubitable" or some other convenient lie too make your decline enabling more palatable.

"People" being people like you. I don't deny they exist. I deny that their opinion is the only one that matters. And I deny that you're the voice of your generation.

It is an FPS

MY LABEL IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME! DO NOT BESMIRCH MY LABEL!

Why do you keep pretending I didn't say I quit the game?

I'm not pretending anything, I just didn't notice

And your own shit doesn't smell? Your argument for why aim isn't a good mechanic is surely very elaborate and based on years of fps experience right?

lol. Don't paint me with the same narrow brush you paint yourself. I never said aiming is a bad mechanic and I never made any argument to that effect. I never suggested that Widow and McCree should be removed from the game.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

Ight you clearly don't care about discussion and just throwing a fit over this. Look at me I even put smiley faces! LMK when you actually gain some knowledge over what the fuck your talking about so at least the argument is worth having with you. For now you sound exactly like the rest of retards on the internet who climb mount stupid and think their little experience is enough to talk about something with such conviction.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

Look I didn't want to get mean to you Zombra but I feel like after all the dickish posts you kind of deserve it.

 

[Zombra]

We both have strong opinions on this but we're still bros. Can we brofist and agree to disagree?

 

[racofer]

I like Overwatch.

 

[unfairlight]

Distruthful statement.

 

[Projas]

Overwatch has cute girls. That gives it a massive edge over other shooters on the market tbh.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

That butthurt with all those suddenly retadred ratings lol

 

[unfairlight]

Overwatch and Blizzard fans are pathetic.
This picture will never be untrue.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

That butthurt with all those suddenly retadred ratings lol

I can finally defend myself from retard spam from likes of you. Get fucked. You conveniently forgot to mention spamming my shit before that happened.

 

[DexRiwus]

Overwatch? More like Over 12 characters have Stun/Spam abilities, and game is painful to play and Watch.

 

[Valestein]

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

looks balanced