OwlCat approach to balance. They are 100% right!

[LannTheStupid]

First of all, are you sure that they completely honest about topic? You have to assume that interviews are part of marketing and they can say what the crowd is want to hear at the moment.

Yes, and I am the part of the crowd that supports Owlcat's design decisions. So again - what is wrong with marketing directed at me?

 

[Gradenmayer]

Sure, it's a really good design when you pick a lightning mage and all enemies are basically immune to lightning



This philosophy is good when it works, like in PoE. But they didn't stick to it when making WoTR.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Sure, it's a really good design when you pick a lightning mage and all enemies are basically immune to lightning

Exactly. If you don't understand the setting then suffer, reroll the character or refund the game.

Or you can try to survive till the end of Chapter 1 and pick Ascendant Element: Lightning.

 

[Reinhardt]

If you don't understand the setting

Lol, nigger, you are talking about fucking golarion.

 

[agris]

The cumulative effect of people reading about 3.5-based games, without a critical look at what was lost on the transition from 2E, allows the lowering of the bar of quality and lets people accept what is objectively a worse mechanical system as “normal”.

It’s how decay occurs, through the lowering of standards. I hope you get the discussion points you were hoping for out of this thread, but I feel a moral obligation to point out that 3.x is an abomination compared to 2E and was not a fait accompli.

And this reminds me of some art experts who can distinguish between genuine van Gogh and a good imitation. Yes, it is very important for those who actually own such paintings and use them as the storage of value; however, it is completely irrelevant for plebs, to whom I proudly belong.

The same is true here. I don't play table top. I don't care about table top mechanics. Neither do I care about intricate evolution between various D&D editions.

What I do care about is the state of computer games based on some of D&D mechanics and the ideology of their creative designers. I grew to despise Sawyerish "no dump stats" attitude and praise what Owlcat Games are doing. Ms. Yulia expressed the approach that I am fond of; it does not matter how this approach relates to some decisions made by Gygax fans 25 years ago as long as Owlcat make games that implement "fun over balance" idea.

You’re welcome to feed from a trough if you want to, no one is going to stop you.

 

[Gradenmayer]

...all enemies are basically immune to lightning

Eat a bag of shit before playing the game

Nah, bro, I'm good. Enjoy yourself.

 

[Cryomancer]

I grew to despise Sawyerish "no dump stats" attitude and praise what Owlcat Games are doing.

Yep. Sawyer also did it in a AWFUL way. For eg, low INT wiz being viable and physical strength impacting every damage, from bows, firearms, magic and etc. IMO he could do like for example GURPS where to throw a fireball, is your throw skill which determines the range and the throw skill is influenced by STR, so a strong magic user can throw thowable spells further than a physically weak caster.

And BTW, in Gurps, before you can throw a fireball, you need to learn ignite fire, shape fire and have magery.

Sure, it's a really good design when you pick a lightning mage and all enemies are basically immune to lightning

The campaign if full of demons and OwlCAt was generous enough to give ascended element - electricity to you.

In M&M VI, if you spended every point into fire magic, you will gonna suffer vs devils. And it makes sense.

 

[LannTheStupid]

If you don't understand the setting

Lol, nigger, you are talking about fucking golarion.

There is more to Golarion than meets the eye.

 

[Gradenmayer]

I grew to despise Sawyerish "no dump stats" attitude and praise what Owlcat Games are doing.

Yep. Sawyer also did it in a AWFUL way. For eg, low INT wiz being viable and physical strength impacting every damage, from bows, firearms, magic and etc. IMO he could do like for example GURPS where to throw a fireball, is your throw skill and the throw skill is influenced by STR, so a strong magic user can throw thowable spells further than a physically weak caster.

And BTW, in Gurps, before you can throw a fireball, you need to learn ignite fire, shape fire and have magery.

Sure, it's a really good design when you pick a lightning mage and all enemies are basically immune to lightning

The campaign if full of demons and OwlCAt was generous enough to give ascended element - electricity to you.

How the fuck does demons having electricity resistance make sense to you?
If it's a thing in the setting then the setting is retarded.
What I am saying don't add shit that is utterly useless into the game, it's just a clutter.
Ascended element was enhanced/fixed with patches, it was absolutely useless before.

 

[Oberon]

If you don't understand the setting

Lol, nigger, you are talking about fucking golarion.

There is more to Golarion than meets the eye.

>(((Goylarion)))
yikeserino

 

[Oberon]

I just hope that they never go PF2e Imo if Paizo forces 2e on then, they should pick any retroclone(mainly AS&SH and LoTFP), or adapt GURPS or any white wolf RPG. PF2e has all problems that plagues 5E with all problems that plagues 4E.

Owlcat are a bunch of globohomo fags that make bloated buggy software.

I wonder if the wokeshit would end if they abandoned Pathfinder.

 

[Riddler]

Too bad they are incapable of designing fun and challenging encounters.

 

[Roguey]

Seeing a threeway battle between the grognards (1/2e purists), the powerbuilders/munchkins (3e enthusiasts) and the Sawyerists/streamliners (5e/Pillars of Eternity enjoyers), fun fun. Three generations of role players with different ideas of how role playing games should be.

 

[LannTheStupid]

And all of them are on the same server. I wonder when / if someone from larger sites recognizes - again - that freedom of speech is, apparently, useful for productive discussions.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

I didn't find their most recent game enjoyable.

I liked it but as I've said. If you aren't into power fantasy, WoTR is a waste of time. IMO WoTR is too bloated to be fun. I loved kingmaker and still like more kingmaker over WoTR.

WOTR just too bloated irregardless of the power fantasy aspect to be fun.

 

[Totktospit]

First of all, are you sure that they completely honest about topic? You have to assume that interviews are part of marketing and they can say what the crowd is want to hear at the moment.

Yes, and I am the part of the crowd that supports Owlcat's design decisions. So again - what is wrong with marketing directed at me?

Nothing is wrong with marketing directed at anybody. All power to you for supporting their design decisions. But words - "Fun is more important than balance" - are just words, and not a cosmic revelation to praise.

 

[Cryomancer]

I didn't find their most recent game enjoyable.

I liked it but as I've said. If you aren't into power fantasy, WoTR is a waste of time. IMO WoTR is too bloated to be fun. I loved kingmaker and still like more kingmaker over WoTR.

WOTR just too bloated irregardless of the power fantasy aspect to be fun.

Yep. One of the critiques towards high and epic level D&D is that it trivializes a lot of iconic enemies. For eg, compare Mindflayers in BG2:SoA(mid level), in Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager(also mid level) with NWN1:HotU mindflayers, they are a cakewalk in HotU. WoTR is so high level that even the rulers of hell and abyss become trivial enemies.

And is not as if Kingmaker was a low level game either. As you can fight dragons, Spawn of Rovagug, a archfey and even two Jabberwock at the same time. And kingmaker stops being fun on house at edge of time, is too bloated there to be fun.

 

[Serus]

Owlcat are a bunch of globohomo fags that make bloated buggy software.

And that makes them different how from half (optimistically) of the designers we have today? At least they made ONE (semi?)-decent game. Game where sjw shit still was in check. Well, more of less.
As i wrote once before, Kingmaker is a game that will most probably remain their ONLY decent game they'll ever make.

 

[LannTheStupid]

But words - "Fun is more important than balance" - are just words, and not a cosmic revelation to praise.

Not all that I praise are cosmic revelations. However, usually I am spending my money on what I am praising, so it might to some infinitesimal degree affect Owlcat's bottom line.

 

[KateMicucci]

I grew to despise Sawyerish "no dump stats" attitude and praise what Owlcat Games are doing.

The games that did "no dump stats" the best was the Fallouts.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

I grew to despise Sawyerish "no dump stats" attitude and praise what Owlcat Games are doing.

The games that did "no dump stats" the best was the Fallouts.

But even in Sawyer's fallout, Charisma was pretty much a dump stat.

 

[KateMicucci]

I just hope that they never go PF2e Imo if Paizo forces 2e on then, they should pick any retroclone(mainly AS&SH and LoTFP), or adapt GURPS or any white wolf RPG. PF2e has all problems that plagues 5E with all problems that plagues 4E.

Owlcat are a bunch of globohomo fags that make bloated buggy software.

I wonder if the wokeshit would end if they abandoned Pathfinder.

Was Rengnor part of the module or an owlcat original?

 

[Totktospit]

Speaking about dump-stats and shit, what Owlcat did so great? IFIRC, their games are based on Pathfiner TTRPG. So in this regard system is ready with god-stats, dump-stats and so on. I just don't get what is there to be happy abpout?

 

[luj1]

They say that the excessive focus on balance ends up creating a game where everything is homogenized and kills player agency. And they are completely right.

Yeah

its not some special "OwlCat approach to balance", this is basic stuff everyone knows

 

[LannTheStupid]

Well, Obsidian could have (maybe) used or at least got inspired by one of existing gaming systems. However, venerable and respectful Mr. Sawyer decided to make his own contribution to them with the main goal of "no dump stats". And that he did.

As one can see, even such small decisions like "let's not screw it up and take existing combat system for our first modern CRPG" may be difficult to comprehend.