Paizo employee attempt to unionize and new store

[Mortmal]

So it's now June. Any updates on this or anything else?

Is 2e still considered a dumpsterfire or did it catch on? I see too many apologists online to actually determine if it's true or not.

It's still unpopular, half the population of pathfinder is true, you can see that just by forums activity , 40K members on reddit 100+K for pathfinder 1E , millions for 5E . It's barely the double of OSR forums 20K , so really nothing. Yet i tried that ruleset, reluctantly as one of my players wanted to DM it , in my humble opinion its not bad at all. No op builds, game is smooth and more balanced than 3.5. It will never catch on , but thats not a bad system to play rpgs so far. I have yet to test higher levels , but been told its holding up better than 3.5. The adventure path made by paizo are also of much better quality than the very sketchy 5E modules from WOTC, probably the main reason i was having fun. No capital crime , have not encountered wokeness so far .

 

[Major_Blackhart]

You seem really invested in this?

Yes and no. Allow me to clarify. PnP games are something I've always enjoyed, though nowadays I never have time to indulge anymore, despite my desire to do so. The thing with Paizo was a noticeable decline over time and despite that I enjoyed their products, especially the Thassilon storylines created mostly by James Jacobs. Until the end of First edition, I bought their Adventure paths and other books, etc.

But even then, I started to notice that 'ick' factor (best way I can define it) oozing in. It was just bit by bit over the years, but at the end I couldn't really ignore it, and honestly I can turn a blind eye to just about anything if I'm invested in it in some way. That ick factor was caused by the growing wokeness and SJW-ness that just seemed to come around. It felt cheesy and dumb after a while.

Their AP's were always well written, nicely done, etc. and yes Paizo always had an active and pretty friendly community and that helps a good bit. But for me, 2e just wasn't interesting. The world didn't seem that interesting any longer, and I didn't want to support something I didn't like. And it's not like I grew up at all or anything. Honestly, it's a bit weird.

I feel a genuine sadness and loss over what has been going on at Paizo, because a good part of me feels that the people who actually did good work are being shoved aside, and because of what they used to put out, plus what they could have become. It's not like watching a car crash, because that's terrifying. This is more like watching pancreatic cancer eat a person alive.

Apologies, it's wordy and rambling. It's just that I used to like their products.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So, one month later. Any further information on the union shitstorm or Paizo in general?

 

[deuxhero]

Last I heard PF2 is half or less the population of PF1 games on roll 20. But thats old data and when I hear people talking about playing the game online its through Foundry so how useful that old information is remains suspect at best.

It's not so much old data as data that isn't useful for determining player count. It tracks public games (game sessions), and nothing else. Create game, close it immediately because you made a mistake and recreate it? That's two "games". At best that data is akin to "LFG" requests, since most people form their group elsewhere, start a private roll20 game and send it to the players.

 

[rojay]

oh jesus.

 

[Bara]

oh jesus.

Well the whole business with the OGL apparently made them sell out on 8 months of the core book in one month so seems folks are flocking to their 2e of PF

So they got some cash to burn right now. If thats a good or bad thing thats for you to decide

 

[Tacgnol]

I've actually warmed slightly to PF2e having played a couple of short games with my usual tabletop circle of friends.

A lot of the major issues I had with it during the playtest (including attunement limits on magic items being based on Cha) have been fixed. Mathematically it is very tight without making character progression worthless.

Still not a fan of every change, but I could see myself using it for a full campaign in the future.

 

[Morblot]

Good to hear they fixed the math since the playtest, because it sure was crap then... as was most of the game.

Still, no way am I personally ever again buying another 600+ page core rulebook [] for who knows how many moneys. The simplicity of OSR has stolen my heart.

 

[deuxhero]

I see no reason to play PF2E over Savage Worlds and Savage Worlds Pathfinder (basically just fantasy rules for SW with D&D class as packages one can purchase). It's simpler and more flexible.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Good to hear they fixed the math since the playtest, because it sure was crap then... as was most of the game.

Still, no way am I personally ever again buying another 600+ page core rulebook [] for who knows how many moneys. The simplicity of OSR has stolen my heart.

If you want, there's a humble bundle on right now that has a bucketload of PF2E pdfs for cheap.

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/so-you-wanna-try-out-pathfinder-paizo-books

 

[Morblot]

If you want, there's a humble bundle on right now that has a bucketload of PF2E pdfs for cheap.

What? No. Fuck that shit. And fuck Paizo.

 

[Ismaul]

I see no reason to play PF2E over Savage Worlds and Savage Worlds Pathfinder (basically just fantasy rules for SW with D&D class as packages one can purchase). It's simpler and more flexible.

Entirely agreed. The system is just superior, more fun and less bloated.

 

[Rocket-Propelled Game]

For my information: Besides the wokery, why do people here dislike Pathfinder 2? I find it's a good in-between between D&D 5e and D&D 3.5/PF1e on the complex-o-meter.

I think I will check out Savage Pathfinder too though.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

The wokery just ruins it for me. It actually fucking killee it for me so much that I just didn't bother even getting into the ruleset. Honestly PF1e is good enough and if your gm is good it can be as simple or as complex as need be.

 

[Caim]

For my information: Besides the wokery, why do people here dislike Pathfinder 2?

It throws out all the stuff that's in Pathfinder 1e, meaning that all the myriad interconnected rules are obsolete.

Which funnily enough is the exact same reason why Pathfinder was made and people flocked to it in the first place.

 

[Mortmal]

For my information: Besides the wokery, why do people here dislike Pathfinder 2? I find it's a good in-between between D&D 5e and D&D 3.5/PF1e on the complex-o-meter.

I think I will check out Savage Pathfinder too though.

Ruleset and combat feels a bit heavy it reminds of 4E sometimes. If you play official pathfinder 2E paizo stuff its indeed very woke, let's go on our merry way to defeat the non binary necromancer, designed to not offend anyone in the USA and you know how those are easily offended by anything. But worse they are also very railroaded adventures, that will inevitably ends up being boring to you. Was more enthusiast before, getting fed up of it.
For people here i'd advise old stuff like ad&d 2E , DCC, any osr clone or better SOTDL.

 

[Bara]

So apparently with Pathfinder 2E "Remasters" they're dropping the Drow from existance as they drop and removing things to step away from the OGL and wotc.

They are now to be replaced with underground snake people.

Tiefling and Aasimar are being removed for the same reasons and just replaced with the singular Nephilim.

One the one hand okay I guess this technically will make the setting have less carbon copy lore elements.
On the other hand its pathfinder and Golarion lore will remain lame if not further decline.

Biggest example being they've vowed to never discuss slavery again in universe or address it in any official publication because bad guys can't be bad guys.

 

[Caim]

Does Cheliax still have the general nazi theme going on, or are they just evil devil worshippers now?

 

[mediocrepoet]

Does Cheliax still have the general nazi theme going on, or are they just evil devil worshippers now?

What makes you assume that devil worshippers are evil, bigot!?

 

[Bara]

Does Cheliax still have the general nazi theme going on, or are they just evil devil worshippers now?

I don't really keep up with the lore so I can't really say if I ever interact with Pathfinder its been with third party products beyond core books.
Last I heard there were two rebellions going on there one succeeded but is still going the other failed or something?

Also apparently in their dash to drop everything OGL related in 2E no more chromatic or metallic dragons.
They'll all be based on the spell lists now? So Arcane, Divine, Occult, and Primal dragons now.

All the classic wizard schools of magic are also being removed.
They're now going to have the schools be actual schools based based in ingame university of magic or what not.

I.e. Wizard School of Civic Wizardry if you wana be a golem guy.

I guess this makes everything more unique feeling but also feels silly somehow.

 

[Caim]

Does Cheliax still have the general nazi theme going on, or are they just evil devil worshippers now?

I don't really keep up with the lore so I can't really say if I ever interact with Pathfinder its been with third party products beyond core books.
Last I heard there were two rebellions going on there one succeeded but is still going the other failed or something?

Also apparently in their dash to drop everything OGL related in 2E no more chromatic or metallic dragons.
They'll all be based on the spell lists now? So Arcane, Divine, Occult, and Primal dragons now.

All the classic wizard schools of magic are also being removed.
They're now going to have the schools be actual schools based based in ingame university of magic or what not.

I.e. Wizard School of Civic Wizardry if you wana be a golem guy.

I guess this makes everything more unique feeling but also feels silly somehow.

Ah yes, going to wizarding school to become magical forklift certified.

 

[mediocrepoet]

License and registration. Do you have papers for that fireball?

Says here you're don't even have a Magic missile certificate and you expect me to believe you're a Red Seal Mage?

 

[booksarecool123]

*alliance party* are always good times for the orz

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Meh. Done with Pathfinder at this point. Was looking back at my earlier posts.

What a difference a year makes. Haven't even thought about it sadly. Or maybe not sadly.

Not sure for certain. Part of me is legit surprised that the company is still functioning in some form. I would have thought that they would have gone under with all that Union BS and woke horseshit.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Meh. Done with Pathfinder at this point. Was looking back at my earlier posts.

What a difference a year makes. Haven't even thought about it sadly. Or maybe not sadly.

Not sure for certain. Part of me is legit surprised that the company is still functioning in some form. I would have thought that they would have gone under with all that Union BS and woke horseshit.

I'm sure they're still floating on some ESG funding. It's all funny money and completely untethered from the profit motive. This is mostly how corporations function now.