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TBS Panzer General / Fantasy General / Panzer Corps Introduction

civac2

Novice
Joined
Jan 22, 2022
Messages
33
Anyone got People's General to work on Win10? I haven't managed that.
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
442
Loved Panzer General 1 and 2, though that bug of buying unlimited tanks as the Russians broke the hell out of that game. :D
People's General is also fantastic with not just air strikes, but helicopters and getting air superiority. Wish they made more in that series because it could probably handle a lot of modern conflicts pretty well.
 

Camel

Scholar
Joined
Sep 10, 2021
Messages
2,071
Damn, what a blast from the past! First time I played PG1 on my cousin's Pentium in 1995, IIRC. Got my mind blown by the fantastic game while being a military history nerd. There is a "Play By E-Mail button".
 
Glory to Ukraine
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Thanks for the heads up bro, I was just thinking about trashing some Chinks! The GOG release works flawlessly and People´s General is as good as ever.
 

civac2

Novice
Joined
Jan 22, 2022
Messages
33
Yeah, thanks for hint. I didn't manage to get my old copy working properly on Win10.
 

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
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Mahou Kingdom
one of the typical failing of PG clones is the almost fetishization of the "puzzle-like" aspects of the original games,
I would avoid UoC1,which is very puzzly due to extremely tight time-limits.
Nice. I like puzzle ones the most because that means there's actual challenge and the games aren't feel-good power fantasy games for mentally challenged man-children.

Which ones have the tightest turn limits, bonus objectives etc.? I enjoy missions that are a real bitch to figure out that you have to replay near 20 times to get right.

I completed the original PG but it was far, far too free form and forgiving. Almost any reasonable strategy would work. Really easy game.
 
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Nutmeg

Arcane
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Trying Order of Battle. Not the best UI in terms of how easy it is to get to information. There's no way to see traits on enemy units except again the purchase menu if you happen to be using the same units, or an external tool. Lack of tool tips over numbers too, and generally a lot of use of color coding with no in game explanation (save the tutorial tips, so try remember them, as not everything is in the manual it seems). Also the GUI actually hides the bottom row of (some?) maps, so you can't move units in those hexes unless you shrink the GUI by going to the options and enabling an "HD" mode (which is too small otherwise, so just hope that you don't have to use the bottom hex row much).
 
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Dayyālu

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
4,471
Location
Shaper Crypt
Nice. I like puzzle ones the most because that means there's actual challenge and the games aren't feel-good power fantasy games for mentally challenged man-children.

Which ones have the tightest turn limits, bonus objectives etc.? I enjoy missions that are a real bitch to figure out that you have to replay near 20 times to get right.

I completed the original PG but it was far, far too free form and forgiving. Almost any reasonable strategy would work. Really easy game.

Uh, why don't you simply play adventure games next? There's nothing particularly inventive in having to follow a "correct" series of moves through trial and error. Panzer Corps probably would be up your alley, it's heavier on the "death to creativity, our way or the highway" tendency.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,971
Pathfinder: Wrath
I'm on two minds about this. On one hand, games which allow you to use a variety of tactics are most of the time too easy. On the other hand, if it's too puzzle-like it kills any replayability and forces you into a very limited army composition. I prefer challenge over replayability though.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,534
An average PG-like being very easy or very puzzle-like are both fake news if only for the fact how swingy most of them can get. Just stop save scumming and play it as intended.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
1,878,453
Location
Djibouti
lul time to wipe out these scrublord conscripts blocking the path to brilliant victory

> entrenchment 1

R U G G E D D E F E N C E
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,534
Rugged defense is exactly what made me hate PC1 initially. In PG it triggered rarely and mostly in situations that made sense, in PC1 I vividly remember playing first scenario of the campaign and having it trigger against me like 5-6 times, including when attacking a broken infantry standing on a river hex.

The numbers game is the most important, and at the same time most difficult, thing to get right in a PG clone. That's the no1 reason most of the modern ones suck so much balls.
 

Nutmeg

Arcane
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Uh, why don't you simply play adventure games next? There's nothing particularly inventive in having to follow a "correct" series of moves through trial and error. Panzer Corps probably would be up your alley, it's heavier on the "death to creativity, our way or the highway" tendency.
1. Puzzles can have multiple solutions.
2. Solutions can be very creative sometimes.
3. Trial and error is not the only way to come up with a solution.

But challenge necessarily means that not every strategy (unit composition, order of moves, etc.) should work, and that there should be a lot of thought and planning put in to finding a strategy that can work, and when this is the case players invariably complain that their ability to role play or their tactical creativity has been hampered because the game is too puzzle-like and you have to play it just the way the developer intended etc. etc. Ofc. none of that is usually true (except maybe the part about diminishing the player's ability to role play), it's just player psychology.

Over time I have learned that the kind of turn based tactics game I enjoy the most is exactly the kind the majority of players will cry about as too puzzle-like.

But yes thank you for the recommendation, a few others have mentioned PC in other contexts too.
 
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ValeVelKal

Arcane
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
1,605
Uh, why don't you simply play adventure games next? There's nothing particularly inventive in having to follow a "correct" series of moves through trial and error. Panzer Corps probably would be up your alley, it's heavier on the "death to creativity, our way or the highway" tendency.
1. Puzzles can have multiple solutions.
2. Solutions can be very creative sometimes.
3. Trial and error is not the only way to come up with a solution.

But challenge necessarily means that not every strategy (unit composition, order of moves, etc.) should work, and that there should be a lot of thought and planning put in to finding a strategy that can work, and when this is the case players invariably complain that their ability to role play or their tactical creativity has been hampered because the game is too puzzle-like and you have to play it just the way the developer intended etc. etc. Ofc. none of that is usually true (except maybe the part about diminishing the player's ability to role play), it's just player psychology.

Over time I have learned that the kind of turn based tactics game I enjoy the most is exactly the kind the majority of players will cry about as too puzzle-like.

But yes thank you for the recommendation, a few others have mentioned PC in other contexts too.
Then UoC1 is going to be perfect for you, especially the "trial & error" part since perfect score (necessary to progress in some parts of the campaign) is only possibly with one or two set of moves AND some luck on the die roll.

UoC2 is still extremely challenging (including in missions that in other games would be "quasi-tutorial", for instance against Italians in North Africa), but it has no stupid "perfect score" threshold to play the campaign so there is some slack / poor luck allowed.
 

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
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Then UoC1 is going to be perfect for you, especially the "trial & error" part since perfect score (necessary to progress in some parts of the campaign) is only possibly with one or two set of moves AND some luck on the die roll.

UoC2 is still extremely challenging (including in missions that in other games would be "quasi-tutorial", for instance against Italians in North Africa), but it has no stupid "perfect score" threshold to play the campaign so there is some slack / poor luck allowed.
Are you able to make a version of your list on the first page but with "puzzle-like" being weighted positively instead of negatively?

Likewise for the OoB campaigns. Really curios as to which one you'd recommend to me personally given my preferences as outlined. I just finished the tutorial campaign, aside from a few initial gripes around the UI, it's a good Western lineage Daisenryaku-like (i.e. PG clone) at least w.r.t. its basic systems. Lets see if the content matches.

w.r.t. trial and error, you misunderstood me. I said trial and error is *not* my preferred means of puzzle solving -- one reason I like games without fog of war e.g. Into the Breach. Also I prefer games to be more on the deterministic side than the RNG side though I can enjoy the latter in the rare case it achieves its design goal, again Into the Breach is a good example of a 80% deterministic game (RNG is just used for AI and map selection), which I like.
 
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Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
2,180
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When it comes to OoB campaings, I would definitely recomend Burma Road for the puzzle-like stuff. It is IMO the most difficult campaign in the game by far.
 

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
5,411
Pathfinder: Wrath
Is there anything like these games that's not World War 1/2 or American Civil War (besides Fantasy General)?

I've always been interested at the games but frankly the settings most of these games take place don't interest me at all
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
19,218
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Is there anything like these games that's not World War 1/2 or American Civil War (besides Fantasy General)?

I've always been interested at the games but frankly the settings most of these games take place don't interest me at all
People's General (China vs Russia/USA WW3)
Star General (scifi)
Warhammer 40 000: Armageddon
Warhammer 40 000: Rites of War.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,971
Pathfinder: Wrath
Is there anything like these games that's not World War 1/2 or American Civil War (besides Fantasy General)?
Fantasy Wars, Elven Legacy (the sequel to FW), Fantasy General 2, SpellForce Conquest of Eo (the battles are smaller scale), Fields of Glory 2 and Fields of Glory Medieval kinda.
 

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
19,988
Location
Mahou Kingdom
Is there anything like these games that's not World War 1/2 or American Civil War (besides Fantasy General)?

I've always been interested at the games but frankly the settings most of these games take place don't interest me at all
Also Eleven Legacy and Fantasy Wars. Nectaris and Vantage Master for Japanese takes (the sub-genre is originally Japanese anyway AFAIK)
 

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