Company News Paradox has acquired White Wolf and the World of Darkness IP, including Vampire: The Masquerade

[IHaveHugeNick]

That's... hugely debatable, I mean, the opinion on AoD. It's great if you like choices and consequences and reactivity. That's... one approach to RPGs.

It is also the same approach that is a focus of both InExile and Obsidian.

 

[hivemind]

That's... one approach to RPGs.

What are the other ones?

 

[Lurker King]

You aren't going to adapt WoD to have a good "combat systems" because the very nature of the original is that you are a superhuman immortal in a world filled with peons, and the only way to gain more strength is to grow older.

Or doing more trainning, which is basically what every single fight or quest amounts too.

Skill checks can be done fine by Obsidian as they have proven time and time again.... as long as they are working on an established IP and not trying to reinvent the wheel.

After South Park and PoE? No, thanks. I prefer that someone like Iron Tower or Stygian Software did this game, but a man can only dream so much.

Personally I think even an Alpha Protocol clone would do more justice to a WoD setting that a crpg could. One would hope the combat could be made more interesting through bloodlines and powers though.

I don’t even.

 

[Delterius]

One of my favorite aspects is how the dominate and dementation lines have a power that can insta-kill anything that isn't supernatural, but it doesn't work against Chastity and Bach because they're flagged as bosses. You're going to experience those fights as they intended.

To be fair, I think you can make a case for Bach not being mundane. Religious paranoia is a dementation of its own. But, yes, its completely pointless to keep the player from using those powers on Chastity.

 

[Lurker King]

LoL. Not even close. AoD is a game for niche of the niche. I bet even on Codex it will not be a game of the year.

A cRPG with lots of skill checks, C&C, excellent writing and excellent combat. Sure, niche of the niche. You should just say "They are nobodies, so we will dismiss the game because we only care about the developer's pedigree".

 

[Stainless Veteran]

To be fair, I think you can make a case for Bach not being mundane. Religious paranoia is a dementation of its own. But, yes, its completely pointless to keep the player from using those powers on Chastity.

Bach probably had True Faith ●●●●○.

Spoiler

True Faith
In Vampire: the Masquerade, the Faith Trait has a rating of 1 to 5. Exactly what protection is afforded to the individual by the Trait depends on this rating, as described below. In theory, a mortal might have a Faith rating of greater than 5, but these people are one in a billion — the sort of people who are venerated as saints. They are unlikely to enter a chronicle, but their powers would be enormous.

●○○○○ Any character with Faith may attempt to ward off vampires by brandishing a holy symbol or uttering prayers. The person rolls Faith against a difficulty equal to the vampire’s current Willpower points. The number of successes indicates the number of steps backward the vampire is forced to take. If no successes are scored, the vampire need not step back but may not advance. A botch indicates that the vampire may advance unhindered. Further, if the cross, Bible, or other holy symbol is placed against the vampire’s body, each success causes an aggravated health level of damage, burning into the flesh.

●●○○○ A mortal with a Faith rating of 2 or more may resist Dominate and similar vampiric mind-control powers by spending Willpower (one point protects for a few turns).

●●●○○ A person with a Faith of 3 or more may be able to sense the presence of a vampire, and can purchase the Awareness Skill. She need not consciously try to sense a vampire’s presence, but must be in peaceful, quiet surroundings — perhaps alone in thought, praying, reading the Torah, meditating on the Bible, etc. The person will not sense the vampire’s presence if she is preoccupied (e.g., arguing) or in a crowded, noisy place (jostled by a mob, in the midst of a raucous banquet, etc.). This ability is not infallible; the Storyteller should let the person sense the vampire only when it is dramatically convenient, or only after a successful Awareness roll. Note that the person cannot know exactly what she senses through her Faith; all that she will know is that something unclean or evil is nearby.

●●●●○ The mortal may not be turned into a ghoul, and is immune to any mind-altering Disciplines such as Dominate, Presence, and Obfuscate.

●●●●● The person is so pure, so holy, that she can fill a vampire with self-loathing, disgust, terror, and even physical pain. Any vampire hearing the person pray, preach, or recite psalms, or who is touched by the faithful, may be forced to flee immediately. A vampire who is unable to flee is reduced to a gibbering wreck, flailing on the floor and screaming, sobbing, or begging forgiveness. To avoid fleeing, the vampire must either expend one Willpower point per turn or make a Stamina roll each turn (difficulty of 5 + her own Intelligence) — the higher the vampire’s Intelligence, the higher the difficulty, as the more tortured and guilty she feels.

Remember that Faith represents a person’s total commitment to her beliefs. That person will act accordingly. Those with high Faith ratings may seem fanatical, even insane to those not of their religion.

 

[Lurker King]

That's... hugely debatable, I mean, the opinion on AoD. It's great if you like choices and consequences and reactivity.

Don't forget about the writing and the combat part. That last time I checked the top 70 cRPGs list was filled with games with worst reacitivity, writing and combat. So, yeah. That only thing that is debatable is your double standard attitude towards the game.

 

[hivemind]

Or doing more trainning, which is basically what every single fight or quest amounts too.

Honestly he is right tho.
The bloodlines PC's power progression which is a common cRPG PC progression makes no sense lorewise and it pretty much has to be justified by you either being buffed by Caine's magic(for some reason) or you being a super low Gen vampire sired by some mysterious 4/5th gen vampire that never appears in the game again.

 

[Lurker King]

The Vault Dweller cocksucking in this thread is intolerable.

 

[Delterius]

Honestly he is right tho.
The bloodlines PC's power progression which is a common cRPG PC progression makes no sense lorewise and it pretty much has to be justified by you either being buffed by Caine's magic(for some reason) or you being a super low Gen vampire sired by some mysterious 4/5th gen vampire that never appears in the game again.

At least its recognized by the game, a lot. A lesser adaptation would have just rolled with it.

 

[Lurker King]

Honestly he is right tho.

The bloodlines PC's power progression which is a common cRPG PC progression makes no sense lorewise and it pretty much has to be justified by you either being buffed by Caine's magic(for some reason) or you being a super low Gen vampire sired by some mysterious 4/5th gen vampire that never appears in the game again.

You have options. Suppose the player invested 3 points in celerity. He cannot improve this discipline with training, but he can improve it with diablerie. In addition, he can learn new disciplines with other vampires, or learn new skills and improve his skills with study and training.

 

[ArchAngel]

A cRPG with lots of skill checks, C&C, excellent writing and excellent combat. Sure, niche of the niche. You should just say "They are nobodies, so we will dismiss the game because we only care about the developer's pedigree".

That is your opinion, and not shared by many outside of Codex.. you know the reason why it is a niche.

 

[Jasede]

Don't forget about the writing and the combat part. That last time I checked the top 70 cRPGs list was filled with games with worst reacitivity, writing and combat. So, yeah. That only thing that is debatable is your double standard attitude towards the game.

The combat in AoD is arguably boring and clunky, the writing sub-par and the reactivity is excellent. I happen to care about writing and combat more than about choices and consequences. If I want choices I'll read a choose your own adventure book. Suck it.

Other approaches to RPGs are too numerous to list.

There's the dungeon crawler, both real-time and turn-based. There's the Wizardry-based combat slug which is almost the same as the dungeon crawler. There's the TB combat-focused CRPG, compare ToEE or KOTC. There's the strictly narrative RPG. There's the hamburger RPG lite ala Bioware. There's the open world RPG ala Daggerfall and Morrowind. C'mon. These are all markedly different from the Arcanum/Fallout/AoD RPG, though AoD is the worst out of those, failing in many essential categories and excelling in others. Don't be the blind fanboys we otherwise make fun of when they happen to worship Bethesda.

 

[Lurker King]

That is your opinion, and not shared by many outside of Codex.. you know the reason why it is a niche.

Many opinions are not shared by a lot of people outside of the Codex. Most people think that Arcanum is an obscure game made by a bankrupt studio. Who gives a fuck? In fact, why should I care if an opinion is shared inside or outside the Codex? The only thing that matters to me is the actual features of the game. If the rest of humanity thought that Skyrm were the best game ever made, I would still think they are delusional and completely wrong. You give too much importance about what other people think, or what you think that other people think. I only care about good cRPGs. Armchair theorizing about opinion polls is completely irrelevant.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Romances.

Heh, reminded me of Tessera and his/her meltdown.

Spoiler

There were also some Ghoul mod, never played it. I fear that a significant part of the contemporary audience will gladly take romances in VtM game. At least back in the day we had to worry only about fags and mallgoth chicks who wanted to play a Tortured Toreador Mary/Harry Sue. Twats were insufferable, but at least they (contrary to popular opinion about oWoD fanbase) weren't the majority. I wonder if they were the case of that statement in nWoD that no, under no circumstances vampires can't have sex. I remember reading something like that in Requiem. Derp. It seems I mixed up my nWoD lore, and WW is way more retarded than I thought.

 

[anus_pounder]

Holy shit. Now I'm even more hyped for roxor's AoD review. Gold, I tell you, absolute gold.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

you know the reason why it is a niche.

Yeah, its niche because it was made by unknown studio with no money for marketing.

 

[Lurker King]

The combat in AoD is arguably boring and clunky, the writing sub-par

What is this? A discussion about game design based on feelings? Boring and clunky? Why is clumky? And why exactly the writing is sub-par? What is good writing to you? Do you have any goods reason, or you just repeat your opinions as if this amounts to arguments? Do you think that you are so important that you mere feelings will prove you are right?

There's the dungeon crawler, both real-time and turn-based. There's the Wizardry-based combat slug which is almost the same as the dungeon crawler. There's the TB combat-focused CRPG, compare ToEE or KOTC. There's the strictly narrative RPG. There's the hamburger RPG lite ala Bioware. There's the open world RPG ala Daggerfall and Morrowind. C'mon. These are all markedly different from the Arcanum/Fallout/AoD RPG, though AoD is the worst out of those, failing in many essential categories and excelling in others. Don't be the blind fanboys we otherwise make fun of when they happen to worship Bethesda.

So you are basically assuming that since there are very different games classified as cRPGs, (1) they are all cRPGs and (2) there is no objective standard to evaluate a cRPG. But from the fact that the industry is filled with action games with stats that are failed attempts to imitate PnP, and that most people called these games cRPGs because they didn’t thought about it, it doesn’t follow that they are really cRPGs. If most people decided to classify armchairs as baseball bats, they are still armchairs and are good to seat, but not to hit balls. Moreover, from the fact that someone aims to do retarded shit for causals, it doesn’t mean that they are good in their own right. A cRPG designed for people who hate cRPGs, is like an opera composed for people who hate operas, the result is absolute garbage. Moreover, my point was not that every cRPG should be a clone of AoD, but that the game excels in what it aims to do, and some of those things, like combat and writing, are important.

 

[Jasede]

You but here's the thing... you saying it excels in combat and writing is exactly as "valid" as me saying it doesn't. You can't debate taste with "rational arguments."

This is like when people ask you why Bach is objectively better than Justin Biber. Sure, you could point out polyphony and harmonics or the technical achievements of the many-voiced fugues but it would still kind of fail to explain it to a retard who believes all music and art is equally valuable. Worse, it wouldn't be the truth. Bach isn't better because he's more complex. Bach is better because... he's closer to God. His music is closer to the ideal of music. And you can only really understand what I mean by that if you're Lyric Suite. The only reason I can tell you that the writing isn't very good is because it doesn't feel as good as the good writing I've experienced. It's dull to read, the characters are not engaging to me and it feels altogether like it needs an edit by a native speaker because a lot of the sentences just have this sense of otherworldy awkwardness to them. Which, arguably, adds to the atmosphere, kind of like in Silent Hill 2.

Yes, now you can say "Aha! You are basing it on FEELS!" and I can say "Yes, but what are you basing it on? Can you explain to me what the combat or writing in that game have that other RPGs haven't done better?" and then you will say that I am supposed to answer that first because I am the one who asked and we end up calling each other faggots in the end. We might as well save time, call each other fags right now, and move on.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

I would gladly go for a Mass Effect 2 clone in the VtM universe.

 

[Caconym]

I wonder if they were the case of that statement in nWoD that no, under no circumstances vampires can't have sex. I remember reading something like that in Requiem.

:D

VtR, page 14:

Vampires can have sex: Fact. While the act of feeding replaces all physical urges, vampires can still indulge in sex and even take pleasure from it. Curiously, however, the emotional aspect of sex vanishes after the Embrace. A vampire might enjoy the physical sensation of sex, but no more than she enjoys a particularly savory smell or the touch of a luxurious fabric.

VtR 2nd Ed, page 6:

Vampire is about sex and murder, about power and wild defiance.

Spoiler

Fun fact: the pre-announcement 'developer code' for the latter game was Sexmurder.

and page 90:

By spending a point of Vitae, Kindred may invoke the blush of life for a scene. This makes them functionally human. They become warm to the touch, with a full, hearty pulse. They produce natural bodily fluids. They function sexually in the way a human can, becoming physically aroused, erect, and lubricated.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

:D

VtR, page 14:

VtR 2nd Ed, page 6:

Spoiler

Fun fact: the pre-announcement 'developer code' for the latter was Sexmurder.

and page 90:

Lol, really? OK, if you say so, I've skimmed through Requiem when it first came out and never bothered to read it again. Based on freaks whom I remember from my oWoD Storytelling days - now that's a counterproductive approach if there ever was one. Some people already played VtM like something of a cross with FATAL, only with more Emotional Engagement™. Why the fuck WW wanted to encourage them?

 

[Caconym]

Some people already played VtM like something of a cross with FATAL, only with more Emotional Engagement™. Why the fuck WW wanted to encourage them?

Sounds like the product of Vinculum. Vamps sucking each other's veins to become fanatically addicted to one another. The game calls it Perversion.

Of course if a vampire binds a mortal to himself this way, that's all A-okay, in line with bloodsucker myths, and most of the time not at all about emotional engagement as much as being a crafty urban predator. Well, except for the Daeva clan, the degenerate succubi they are.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Sounds like the product of Vinculum. Vamps sucking each other's veins to become fanatically addicted to one another. The game calls it Perversion.

Of course if a vampire binds a mortal to himself this way, that's all A-okay, in line with bloodsucker myths, and most of the time not at all about emotional engagement as much as being a crafty urban predator. Well, except for the Daeva clan, the degenerate succubi they are.

Wat. Now that's what I call a generation gap, probably people played ADnD felt that way upon encountering D&D 4th edition and its subsequent changes to mechanics, settings and lore. Vinculum is a perversion now? It's now not a Sabbat pack ritual, but a Blood Bond with added BDSM? Ghouling a mortal is a sexual thing now?

 

[Caconym]

Not a sexual thing in and of itself. It can become an emotional engagement / sexual thing between two vampires though, but really, it's more like drug addiction I guess.