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Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Since Grunker has abandoned me, I must ask the thread for advice.

How much of a mistake is it to fight (regular) atziri on hc? I'm playing gc totems and currently have 4K hp with mom, 10k-ish tooltip dps with charges up.

Also got a new record with this char, beat my first yellow map :3

Atziri is still mostly a mechanical challenge, rather than a gear check (being merely a lvl70 zone and all).
If you have experience with Atziri, you wouldn't even be asking such questions with your current set-up - you'd go and kill her.
If you don't have experience with Atziri bosses, 4k life (even with MoM) seems awfully low - you can get chunked by the titty bitch rain of doom, or by Atziri's shit.
To clarify I haven't fought atziri before at all. How much defensive garbage do I need before I have a reasonable chance of success?

I'll get another 10% mana/hp conversion after endgame lab, other than that I don't think I'll get any significant survivability boosts. Some dmg up when I can afford 5link soul mantle though.
 

ArchAngel

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Since Grunker has abandoned me, I must ask the thread for advice.

How much of a mistake is it to fight (regular) atziri on hc? I'm playing gc totems and currently have 4K hp with mom, 10k-ish tooltip dps with charges up.

Also got a new record with this char, beat my first yellow map :3

Atziri is still mostly a mechanical challenge, rather than a gear check (being merely a lvl70 zone and all).
If you have experience with Atziri, you wouldn't even be asking such questions with your current set-up - you'd go and kill her.
If you don't have experience with Atziri bosses, 4k life (even with MoM) seems awfully low - you can get chunked by the titty bitch rain of doom, or by Atziri's shit.
To clarify I haven't fought atziri before at all. How much defensive garbage do I need before I have a reasonable chance of success?

I'll get another 10% mana/hp conversion after endgame lab, other than that I don't think I'll get any significant survivability boosts. Some dmg up when I can afford 5link soul mantle though.
For HC, you want 8000 life/mana to make sure you can survive mistakes (and you will make mistakes on first try). Also be sure to boost your max fire resist with Purity of Fire and flask.

First time Atziri is basically like running red tier maps first time. If you got no clue what you are doing, you are going to get chunked unless you went a bit overboard with survivability.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Would need like 5700 life for that... pretty sure that is not doable with this build (only have +150% life from tree). Guess I'll make a suicide run at her at some point when I start getting bored.
 

Grunker

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For normal Atziri I kindda disagree with ArchAngel - like T says, it's less about gear and more about knowing the mechanics. Watch some YouTube tuts or something. If you know what to do and do it, you don't need ubergear at all. If you want to survive going in blind, then yeah, you'll need tons of survivability
 

ArchAngel

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For normal Atziri I kindda disagree with ArchAngel - like T says, it's less about gear and more about knowing the mechanics. Watch some YouTube tuts or something. If you know what to do and do it, you don't need ubergear at all. If you want to survive going in blind, then yeah, you'll need tons of survivability
For non HC I agree with you, but for HC no youtube tutorial will teach you. I watched a fair bit for a couple of boss fights in this game and every time I ended up playing the fights badly and needing to also learn them by playing them.
 

Saark

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Double-Vaal: Trigger them one after another, so you can blast one before the other one even spawns. Easiest of the fights, you don't really need any survivability unless your dps is too low to kill them during their first add-spawn animation. If your dps is too low for that, portal out and don't come back.
Trio: This is by far the hardest for a totem-build that doesn't have good dps. Since you are unable to target a specific mob, you will have the tittybitch up longer than you want. With your current defenses, you will get stunned when hit by the rain of blades and die in less than a second. If you can manage to kill the tittybitch quickly, this fight becomes trivial since you can just run circles while your totems kill the two dudes. Should be doable since you can just drop all your totems close to the tittybitch before you start the fight, and even if your totems decide to target one of the other mobs the GC should still hit her due to the big AoE.
Atziri: Get 5k life+the corresponding MoM pool. Get 2ruby+2topaz+quicksilver flasks, any two of your flasks should have staunching on them, the others increased duration. Drop totems, pop your flasks, run around like a headless chicken and try to avoid getting hit by any of the spells. If you still get hit, your flasks should easily let your survive with enough hp to take another hit, which enables you to just portal out and refresh charges. If your DPS is high enough to not get an add-phase but low enough to not insta-phase the boss, you will want to portal out to refresh flask charges once they've run out.
Whenever you do portal out and get back in again, you will always want to move before doing anything else. She will immediately start throwing her spear which hurts like hell and applies a heavy bleed. That's what the staunchings are for. After portalling in, pop your staunching quicksilver and drop totems whenever you feel safe enough to do it. During splitphase just make sure all totems will hit a single mob. Atziri is not as scary as long as you dont get one-shot or die to two consecutive hits without having the ability to react.

Flasks for the bosses
Double-Vaal: Whatever boosts your dps. You may want 1 or 2 topaz if you want to keep fighting after they resurfaced.
Trio: 2xGranite, Basalt, Quicksilver, Stibnite. 2x Staunching. Quicksilver to move around, Granite+Basalt to not get stunned in case you get hit and basalt also reduces the damage you take from running over the physical-degen ground while kiting. Staunching because the bleed-guy hurts if he hits you with his cleaves. Stibnite is amazing because blind is op.
Atziri: As mentioned above, 2x Ruby/Topaz and a Quicksilver to move around. You can exchange one of the resist flasks for a life flask if you want, but the aim here is to not get hit at all because you will most likely get stunned, panic, and run into more shit. If you feel a life-flask makes you more comfortable then do that, this fight is all about not panicking because you will fuck up if you do and die.

Switch to the new flasks after the previous boss-fight, since there is only magic-packs between each boss filling them up is no problem. You will have to waste a portal if you forget though.
 

T. Reich

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For normal Atziri I kindda disagree with ArchAngel - like T says, it's less about gear and more about knowing the mechanics. Watch some YouTube tuts or something. If you know what to do and do it, you don't need ubergear at all. If you want to survive going in blind, then yeah, you'll need tons of survivability

Jaedar With your current listed damage and life you should have no problem whatsoever, IF you knew the fight.
Since you don't know the fight, the risk of you dying is extremely high regardless of your gearing.

Let me put it into perspective:
In Harbinger I made RF JUGG (everyone was doing Zerker for moar damage, but I wanted moar tanking; also, I'm a hipster). 9k+ life, YUGE mitigation and solid regen. The fucker wouldn't die in t13+ maps, it was tanky as fuck.
I would do normal Atziri with it occasionally. Very rarely I would fuck up the proper trio handling or eat a few hits at Atziri split phase. And I would die. Mostly because two of the three boss fights require a good deal of manual evasion and clarity of mind; panicking there will get you killed fast.

Here's a showcase of a proper technical prowess:
 

Cyberarmy

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Yes and no. She splits into 4, each clone doing its own thing. İf your totems/mines/minions choose the same target or have enough damage it's OK. Killing 1 clone ends that phase.
But if they act like headless chickens (which they really like...) you're in a world of hurt.
 

T. Reich

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Plus, if your totems targrt/hit the mirror clone, they insta-die, forcung you to recast them. Recasting = time under fire, and you could eat a spear here, followed by a flameblast.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
It seems atziri is a bad idea, and for now I'll choose 'getting to red maps' as the goal, although it may require more time than I have. We shall see. Thanks for all the advice and info.
 

ArchAngel

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Once you get to red maps is it a whole new set of torture called upkeeping your map pool.
Be ready to press your Buy button many many times if you want to survive that torture.
 
Last edited:

Grunker

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Yeah, the main thing preventing me from reaching red maps during a league isn't ability, gear or build, but map access (i.e.: time). For normies like us they could definetely expand map availability without hurting balance, but the problem is that map access is all that is holding the grinders back. If they expand that they also expand their economy exponentially, I fear
 

ArchAngel

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Yeah, the main thing preventing me from reaching red maps during a league isn't ability, gear or build, but map access (i.e.: time). For normies like us they could definetely expand map availability without hurting balance, but the problem is that map access is all that is holding the grinders back. If they expand that they also expand their economy exponentially, I fear
They could make maps way way more difficult. It would bring balance back to build side, people would have enough maps but they will need to grind easier ones so they can survive harder ones. That way nobody would complain about not enough access to maps, people would still need to grind to become strong enough to reach Elder and Shaper and making good builds would again become a skill to acquire (now it is how to best grind and play the market master).
 

Grunker

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Maling the game more difficult seems a dubious decision from a financial standpoint. Also I kindda like the way difficulty is handled now. You sorta pick your difficulty by choosing what content to do, and the rewards reflect it.

At least that’s the theory. The fact that boss loot is so shitty and trawl grinding is encouraged kinda fucks the system, but that’s more of a loot balancing issue.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Yeah, the main thing preventing me from reaching red maps during a league isn't ability, gear or build, but map access (i.e.: time). For normies like us they could definetely expand map availability without hurting balance, but the problem is that map access is all that is holding the grinders back. If they expand that they also expand their economy exponentially, I fear
Wait, you dont generally get to red maps?

How am I supposed to get there then!

Managed to pick up a 5link soul mantle (not very well rolled, but what do I care for 10% inc ES and 5% inc spell damage?) for a low cost of 26c. Now I just gotta level muh gems and get some flasks of warding and PoB says I'll double my dps pretty soon. Naizu!
 

Grunker

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Well, saying I’m prevented from reaching them is probably a misnomer. I typically reach red maps and play 20-30 but can’t sustain them. Then die and quit the league at the agonizing prospect of having to build a new red map pool after leveling a new character
 

ArchAngel

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Maling the game more difficult seems a dubious decision from a financial standpoint. Also I kindda like the way difficulty is handled now. You sorta pick your difficulty by choosing what content to do, and the rewards reflect it.

At least that’s the theory. The fact that boss loot is so shitty and trawl grinding is encouraged kinda fucks the system, but that’s more of a loot balancing issue.
Except you don't. It is very easy to put together a build that can do up to shaper and uber atziri.
Main reason that prevents you is access to maps to get there. You are either forced to grind random maps with no certain result or buy all the maps.

My proposal is that getting maps is not hard but beating maps to get there is the real challenge. They could buff all map bosses but give them 100% chance to drop same or bigger tier map.
 

T. Reich

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You sorta pick your difficulty by choosing what content to do, and the rewards reflect it.

Except they totally don't.
The correlation is rather inverse here - the easier content is, the more rewarding it is.
Culminating in the fact that the most profitable activity is not killing mobs, but abusing the market knowledge and trading.
 

Grunker

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You sorta pick your difficulty by choosing what content to do, and the rewards reflect it.

Except they totally don't.
The correlation is rather inverse here - the easier content is, the more rewarding it is.
Culminating in the fact that the most profitable activity is not killing mobs, but abusing the market knowledge and trading.


:M

grunker said:
At least that’s the theory. The fact that boss loot is so shitty and trawl grinding is encouraged kinda fucks the system, but that’s more of a loot balancing issue.

My point is the system is designed perfectly fine, but the concrete implementation leaves alot to be desired right now.

EDIT: Also I don't mind trading and abusing the market being profitable. I like that those kinds of things are also possible. Right now I think alot could be fixed by rebalancing the loot and adding tables to map bosses, especially red ones.
 

ArchAngel

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Except we both proved that it is not. Just giving more loot to bosses will solve nothing when they are a pushover to kill. They would just make everyone richer and make game even easier.
 

Grunker

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Fake edit: this should respond to the upper post as well:

Except you don't. It is very easy to put together a build that can do up to shaper and uber atziri.

You seriously underestimate the skill levels of the bulk of PoE players. I'm probably in that grey area zone where I would be able to beat the Shaper if I had more map drops as you suggest, but I don't think most are. They can't just beef up the bosses unless they want to alienate the players still trying to get at least somewhere with their own wonky builds.

And that's not even speaking to the financial aspect of making the game harder = more hardcore deaths = more players dropping faster. That's just the cold, hard calculation behind the TV meta, I suspect.

And I mean, it's not like I can be totally Codex elite monocle here. I find myself enjoying this game the most when my build starts functioning and I can just mindlessly blow up mobs for the most part and then like once every ½ - 1½ hours be forced to pay attention to something.
 

Grunker

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Like, look at the 3.0 release. They had this massive influx of major streamers like that annoying cunt ExcessiveProfanity who insisted on doing his own shitty Spectral Throw build. And he actually got pretty far with it and would have been able to go to red tier maps probably (at which point he would have been utterly creamed). But he only barely kept afloat - and Cruel Lab did force him to start changing his build to some suggestions.

I bet as a developer needing to keep your economy growing, you watch that and go "can't make the game harder."
 

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