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Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

Minttunator

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Estonia
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Well, shit. Fire Trap and Poison Arrow really got hit hard - no surprise there, obviously. Guess I'll have to figure out something else to run in races. :D

Very happy to see the Duelist buffs, though! Might even roll one myself now.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,305
I like how their idea of improving melee skills is "Increase skill damage so you can pick more health nodes instead of ones that increase damage".
 

abija

Prophet
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
2,943
Still, why does melee need another aoe skill? The 2 main issues are frustration when using single target due to desync and game damage being balanced around ranged tank builds so you can't go toe to toe anymore when difficulty scales up.
Melee is not even at the point where performance matters because atm it just doesn't play right.
 

Arkeus

Arcane
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,406
Still, why does melee need another aoe skill? The 2 main issues are frustration when using single target due to desync and game damage being balanced around ranged tank builds so you can't go toe to toe anymore when difficulty scales up.
Melee is not even at the point where performance matters because atm it just doesn't play right.
The damage being improved in Melee is needed because even with AoE passives and supports you are always very close to the enemies and your damage is lower so it was way too dangerous. even a few % of damage is really a Big Deal at high level.

As for 'new Melee Aoe', they really need more, as presently it's pretty much 'you have this weapon, you need to use -this- AoE', and some weapons are utterly screwed (Daggers, Claws come to mind.). Hell, even swords are screwed, because Cleave is only possible with a elemental build and most swords type are not good for that.
 

abija

Prophet
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
2,943
The damage being improved in Melee is needed because even with AoE passives and supports you are always very close to the enemies and your damage is lower so it was way too dangerous. even a few % of damage is really a Big Deal at high level.
But that's exactly the issue, fixing melee shouldn't be about reducing time spent in melee. If melee take 2x more damage than ranged you don't just give them 2x damage so the mobs live half as much, you give them ways to handle that damage.
 

Arkeus

Arcane
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,406
Adding a 'resist to crit' possible prefix/suffix would be really a gamechanger.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,305
The problem is fixing melee without making ranged builds even better at the same time.
 

Castanova

Prophet
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
2,949
Location
The White Visitation
It's going to be a real nightmare for them to fix melee, imo. The only way to do it would be to make it so melee characters suck versus certain monsters and kick ass versus others and have it be the reverse for ranged. But that's not really possible given Spell Totem + Summon Skeletons existing. I think they might need to bite the bullet and remove that somehow.
 

dibens

as seen on shoutbox
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There are plenty of ways to fix melee. I can think of few right now:

Support gem, that adds significant armor boost few seconds after a melee attack is used (similar to Iron Impact rune in Diablo).
Better scaling and duration on Immortal Call skill (still doesn't fix it, since properly timing it with all these desyncs is impossible)
Add reduced crit damage to armor nodes near marauder three to make them more appealing.
Add health % to armor nodes near marauder tree to make them more appealing
Add % hp instant recovery to flask nodes near marauder tree.
Increase radius of Cleave when used with two-handed weapons.
 

Castanova

Prophet
Joined
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Messages
2,949
Location
The White Visitation
There are plenty of ways to fix melee. I can think of few right now:
Support gem, that adds significant armor boost few seconds after a melee attack is used (similar to Iron Impact rune in Diablo).
Better scaling and duration on Immortal Call skill (still doesn't fix it, since properly timing it with all these desyncs is impossible)

What about melee who use evasion?

Add reduced crit damage to armor nodes near marauder three to make them more appealing.
Add health % to armor nodes near marauder three to make them more appealing
Increase radius of Cleave when used with two-handed weapons.

Won't any buffs to the Marauder tree just mean that you should pick Marauder for just about ANY build you can possibly imagine? I don't think it specifically helps melee.
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
It's going to be a real nightmare for them to fix melee, imo. The only way to do it would be to make it so melee characters suck versus certain monsters and kick ass versus others and have it be the reverse for ranged. But that's not really possible given Spell Totem + Summon Skeletons existing. I think they might need to bite the bullet and remove that somehow.
Skeleton totem is arguably OP anyway. It's up and away vastly better than Decoy Totem which basically is meant to serve the same purpose.
 

empi

Augur
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
452
There are plenty of ways to fix melee. I can think of few right now:

Support gem, that adds significant armor boost few seconds after a melee attack is used (similar to Iron Impact rune in Diablo).
Better scaling and duration on Immortal Call skill (still doesn't fix it, since properly timing it with all these desyncs is impossible)
Add reduced crit damage to armor nodes near marauder three to make them more appealing.
Add health % to armor nodes near marauder tree to make them more appealing
Add % hp instant recovery to flask nodes near marauder tree.
Increase radius of Cleave when used with two-handed weapons.

So make marauder the best class by a fair bit, seems like a good idea. Marauder and templar are already probably the two most versatile classes
Cleave can already have like half a screen radius anyway, and making it so melee plays like ranged isn't really a way to fix melee
 

Castanova

Prophet
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Messages
2,949
Location
The White Visitation
The whole melee vs. ranged thing is possibly an unintended negative consequence of having a purely skill-based game. It prevents easy ways of balancing particular playstyles, like Diablo 3's blanket 30% damage reduction for Barbs and Monks (not that I'm saying this is a good solution, just an example). You can't make general buffs to Marauder's tree because then it'll be optimal to always pick Marauder (it already pretty much is for hardcore characters, it seems). You can't really make damage buffs to all the melee skills because melee still has survivability issues. You can't just buff armor because there's nothing preventing a ranged character using armor. Plus, if you buff armor but not evasion, then evasion melee builds are lame. But then if you buff evasion to compensate, you're buffing rangers and even some casters.

I feel like they're going to have to implement some really lame thing where, like, all melee weapons universally give Endurance Charges or something and they disappear immediately upon switching to ranged weapons or when casting a damaging spell.
 

empi

Augur
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
452
Eh I think something like reworking the stun mechanics so that they only work with melee attacks (but not allow some stupid perma stun shit) could work.

Pretty much any changes you make to trees to add survivability for melee will benefit ranged just as much
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Actually, easiest melee tweaks would be simply making melee-oriented skills cost less mana. Naturally, that's not the only thing to do, but it's a starting point. For instance, I can't see a early HC Marauder running with a viable support gem hooked up to any of the regular attacks. Some might, but I just don't, it drained my mana way too much to be a viable thing for the longest time. As a result, much of the melee ends up running around without things that would, in theory, save their ass, such as Heal on Hit support gems (which you normally spam on Normal because hey, why not).

Other things that could use a "rebalance" are freeze times and ranged incoming Chaos damage. Being ranged, you're quite screwed being frozen, but you'll usually have one second's worth of time to run away (In fact that's how I survived a party wipe on one of my races on some Sudden Freeze Mob), as a melee, it usually means you're swarmed and killed. Of course, it's your fault for not carrying resi rings for that, but yeah, Sudden Mob of Doom is still that. Although usually you have a chance to prepare for it with defrost flasks so eh, okay, in a non-race situation I don't see too much of an issue with this.

Ranged chaos mobs though, whoooooo boy. As a ranged character, these fuckers are endlessly annoying, but as melee, holy shit it makes things retarded in certain areas (like Vaal Ruins with those floating vaccuumcleaners). What am I supposed to do? Have a bow? If I wanted a bow I'd make a ranged char, I haven't spotted any encounters where a ranged is forced into melee, so yeah, no thanks. And yeah, in early HC you'll not have any flasks to mitigate, nor, usually, gear, making it an exercise in frustration. To be honest, I'd like Chaos damage to be either gone or reworked to be more mitigateable than it is, anyway.
 

empi

Augur
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
452
Actually, easiest melee tweaks would be simply making melee-oriented skills cost less mana. Naturally, that's not the only thing to do, but it's a starting point.

Blood magic already negates mana cost for melee stuff pretty much. And with the ability to get physical mana leech from gear/warlord's mark etc. melee can deal with mana pretty well imo
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Actually, easiest melee tweaks would be simply making melee-oriented skills cost less mana. Naturally, that's not the only thing to do, but it's a starting point.

Blood magic already negates mana cost for melee stuff pretty much. And with the ability to get physical mana leech from gear/warlord's mark etc. melee can deal with mana pretty well imo
You have to get to BM first, in HC, and especially shorter races (2, 3H) you can get there, but for most of the race you're pretty gimped.
 

empi

Augur
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
452
Eh the real problem with melee is endgame, races is surely a much lesser concern
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,305
A1AaeKU.png

That was pretty funny.
 

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