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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,489
What the enemies should do is coup de grace your ass when your character fall unconscious and cause a party wide fear affect. I remember in neverwinter games die hard feats were useful and there even greater version of them but here they made the feat something you don't want to have which makes no sense.
 

kelkorkesis

Novice
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
92
You don't really need the Paladin dip if you have strong Fortitude and Will saves
I agree. In my recent playthrough my frontline was Amiri, Regongar and Valerie and as expected none of them had paladin levels. But if you want high defenses and you are already a LG character might dip paladin as well for Divine Grace.

Paladin 3 is absolutely not worth it. Pal 2 is OK.
Absolutely. If I want to add something extra to any builds with I wrote above I would remove third level of Paladin without a heartbeat. For example
Scaled Fist 1/ Paladin 3/ Two Handed Fighter 16
You can do Scaled Fist 2/ Paladin 2/ THF 16 here and get an extra feat (a spot opened by grabbing blindfight from monk 2). But I like the idea of disease and fear immunity, and I was glad having that when boggards were terrifying everyone on my frontline but my Paladin.
 

kelkorkesis

Novice
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
92
So, I was browsing Nexus for mods and saw this mod.
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/96

This mod allows you play gestalt characters. What is gestalt you might ask. It is an alternative level progression which you pick 2 classes on a single level up. You get abilities of both classes and highest of the skill points, BAB and saves. It is very similar to ad&d multiclassing. Check following link for more info
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

I want to start a gestalt campaign with only part of 3 (mc and 2 companions). I have several build ideas but I wonder if anyone has interesting concept that couldn't fit a vanilla playthrough.

Some simple examples:

Druid 20/ Monk 20 : Wildshape suddenly become very very dangerous
Cleric 20/ Fighter 20: This is what you actually want from Crusader Cleric Archetype
Wizard 20/ Monk 20: This is a classic from pnp, it gives a pretty good chasis upgrade to Wizard and increases potential form of the dragon spells very much.

Or you can channel your inner InEffect and slap Vivsectionist 20 to any build you use.
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,504
So, I was browsing Nexus for mods and saw this mod.
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/96

This mod allows you play gestalt characters. What is gestalt you might ask. It is an alternative level progression which you pick 2 classes on a single level up. You get abilities of both classes and highest of the skill points, BAB and saves. It is very similar to ad&d multiclassing. Check following link for more info
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

I want to start a gestalt campaign with only part of 3 (mc and 2 companions). I have several build ideas but I wonder if anyone has interesting concept that couldn't fit a vanilla playthrough.

Some simple examples:

Druid 20/ Monk 20 : Wildshape suddenly become very very dangerous
Cleric 20/ Fighter 20: This is what you actually want from Crusader Cleric Archetype
Wizard 20/ Monk 20: This is a classic from pnp, it gives a pretty good chasis upgrade to Wizard and increases potential form of the dragon spells very much.

Or you can channel your inner InEffect and slap Vivsectionist 20 to any build you use.
Unless you have a Monk that gives Int bonuses to his abilities, you might be better off with a Sorc to dovetail with the Cha-based Monk.
 

Jarpie

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
6,735
Codex 2012 MCA
Wasn't the AD&D multiclassing that you divide the exp between the classes, slowing the progression on all of them?
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,504
Wasn't the AD&D multiclassing that you divide the exp between the classes, slowing the progression on all of them?
Yes. However, the way XP was structured in AD&D meant that you are actually only about 2-3 levels behind at most, so gestalt is closer to it than the rest of 3.x.
 

kelkorkesis

Novice
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
92
Unless you have a Monk that gives Int bonuses to his abilities, you might be better off with a Sorc to dovetail with the Cha-based Monk.

Monk gestalt is for mostly simple chasis upgrade. All good saves, full BAB some neat abilities and extra feats here and there. You will also likely get some WIS (or CHA) to AC since +8 stat items and +2 Bokken potion to boost all your stats by +10.

Wasn't the AD&D multiclassing that you divide the exp between the classes, slowing the progression on all of them?
Yes. 3.5 Gestalt is a little bit different though. Everyone in the party plays gestalt characters (There is not really a choice to stay single class and boost your exp gain) and you don't really divide exp.
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,504
Unless you have a Monk that gives Int bonuses to his abilities, you might be better off with a Sorc to dovetail with the Cha-based Monk.

Monk gestalt is for mostly simple chasis upgrade. All good saves, full BAB some neat abilities and extra feats here and there. You will also likely get some WIS (or CHA) to AC since +8 stat items and +2 Bokken potion to boost all your stats by +10.

Wasn't the AD&D multiclassing that you divide the exp between the classes, slowing the progression on all of them?
Yes. 3.5 Gestalt is a little bit different though. Everyone in the party plays gestalt characters (There is not really a choice to stay single class and boost your exp gain) and you don't really divide exp.
I played gestalt characters before. Trust me, get a character that don't have MAD, even with stat boosting gear. My Wiz/Sorc hurt with the Int and Cha requirements.

Gestalt is meant for a lower than average player count (i.e., less than 4). It is NOT meant to boost XP. It is to help ensure there is no party wipe even with normal CR-appropriate creatures. Trying to make anything else out of it is verging on munchkinism.
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,504
Trying to make anything else out of it is verging on munchkinism

I would like to do some munchkinism in single player games. That way I can play with broken stuff without ruining anyone's campaign.
If that is the case, just mod NWN2 and make Dragon Disciple into a full casting, full BAB class that you can get into using any base class at level 2. Do the same for Warpriest and Eldritch Knight, and you are set.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,642
Location
Grand Chien
Guys does anyone know what kind of Initiative bonuses enemies have lategame? My MC is maxing out at around +15 Initiative and I'm wondering if that's enough by itself to never be flat-footed in combat. Thus, I wouldn't need Uncanny Dodge.

Looking at Wild Hunt Scouts/Archers on the wiki they appear to have +13 Initiative (what the fuck) so it sounds as if I still need Uncanny Dodge if I don't want to get ripped apart in the first round.

Thoughts?
 

Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
2,003
Location
Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Guys does anyone know what kind of Initiative bonuses enemies have lategame?

Picture from my old post.
FWGQcSd.png

On Hard +20 and more is possible on endgame enemies.
IMHO, relying on initiative to avoid flat-footed on tank is really bad strategy - enemy's huge bonuses to Initiative from the stats are too high to reliably keep up with them as game progress.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,642
Location
Grand Chien
Guys does anyone know what kind of Initiative bonuses enemies have lategame?

Picture from my old post.

On Hard +20 and more is possible on endgame enemies.
IMHO, relying on initiative to avoid flat-footed on tank is really bad strategy - enemy's huge bonuses to Initiative from the stats are too high to reliably keep up with them as game progress.
Damn. Oh well. Thanks for the info.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,642
Location
Grand Chien
Fuck's sake! I only just realised that the game isn't automatically switching one-handed weapons to two-handed when the off-hand is free. So Estoc for example is garbage if you're trying to two-hand it while being strength-focused. Godammit Owlcat.

While we're on the subject of weapons, why does Ovinrbaane STILL not force you to make Will saves each round in combat like the description states?
 
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Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,616
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
It is switching stances. Try disabling Spell Combat maybe?
Or maybe it doesn't work for Finesse weapons? It should not work for Light weapons, but estoc should not be classified as such.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I am trying to design a Dex Sword Saint: Human SS19/TradMonk1

I am going to be using Scimitars, and I need some help with what works and what doesn't for this build.

- Weapon Finesse + Slashing Grace is the way to go, right?
- Does Piranha Strike work in my case?

(Funnily enough, after hours of searching online I did not find any such dex Sword Saint builds mapped out. Maybe I am blind.)
 

kelkorkesis

Novice
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
92
Weapon Finesse + Slashing Grace is the way to go, right?
This combination changes any slashing one-handed weapon to finessable one (even if it is not finessable) in this game. You can go for longswords, bastard swords or falcatas also. It would be best for you to go falcata though. Not many weapon beats Lion's Claw for crit fishing.

Does Piranha Strike work in my case
Don't. Even if you fall for spellstrike meme you will strike with two hand most of the time.
Power Attack said:
This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls.
Piranha strike lacks this line from power attack and it is inferior. Grab power attack with help of a stat item.

Funnily enough, after hours of searching online I did not find any such dex Sword Saint builds mapped out. Maybe I am blind.
Not really different than STR variant, you just pay 2 feat tax to become dex based.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
This combination changes any slashing one-handed weapon to finessable one (even if it is not finessable) in this game. You can go for longswords, bastard swords or falcatas also. It would be best for you to go falcata though. Not many weapon beats Lion's Claw for crit fishing.

The reason that I have chosen Scimitar so far is that it has a smooth progression throughout, as evidenced in my previous playthroughs. In my current (Wizard) playthrough, I am taking down detailed notes for the progression of all weapons throughout the game. If the weapons you are mentioning prove to progress smoothly, I may rethink it. (This is also why I am not considering Estocs, for example. Terrible progression.)

Don't. Even if you fall for spellstrike meme you will strike with two hand most of the time.

My mind was just blown.

I am planning around not using spellstrike. But OK, I need help with this, this is so confusing.

- Fundamentally, I will be a 1-handed DEX melee. Do DEX melees attack with both hands? I know STR melees do, but DEX?!

- Also, Power Attack needs STR, which I am planning to neglect.

- I did not expect to hear that Power Attack works in combination with Slashing Grace. Are we sure about this?

- Even if I did not completely neglect STR and could take Power Attack, I would still have much greater DEX than STR, since DEX is my main attribute. Is Power Attack still superior?
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Parabalus, I know Dueling Swords have a very good progression, but their other bonuses look underwhelming to me (unless I failed to pay attention to a really good one somewhere). +5 where?! I have not used them this far and I do not remember it. Are you sure?
 

kelkorkesis

Novice
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
92
The reason that I have chosen Scimitar so far is that it has a smooth progression throughout, as evidenced in my previous playthroughs. In my current (Wizard) playthrough, I am taking down detailed notes for the progression of all weapons throughout the game. If the weapons you are mentioning prove to progress smoothly, I may rethink it. (This is also why I am not considering Estocs, for example. Terrible progression.)
You are a magus, you are not really bound by weapon progression. Also, you will get Lion's Claw right after dealing with Vordakai iirc, it is a 18-20/x3 weapon. You won't be needing any weapon after that.

- Fundamentally, I will be a 1-handed DEX melee. Do DEX melees attack with both hands? I know STR melees do, but DEX?!
Game adds 1.5 times your damage stat modifier if you are striking with two hand. Yes, this works for slashing grace for some reason. All your need is an empty hand. Prime eurojank, but I have a suspicion that these divergence from pnp ruleset are actually intended. If there were, congrats Owlcat on sensible changes.

- Also, Power Attack needs STR, which I am planning to neglect.
Even if you dump STR, a stat item fixes it. Even if you have 7 STR you will get an +6 stat belt sooner or later. Before stacking to hit modifiers I wouldn't rely on Power Attack anyways. However, if you equip the belt, get the feat, and later remove the belt you won't be able to use the feat. You will still qualify for things that require Power Attack though.

- I did not expect to hear that Power Attack works in combination with Slashing Grace. Are we sure about this?
Slashing Grace is completely separate thing from Power Attack.

- Even if I did not completely neglect STR and could take Power Attack, I would still have much greater DEX than STR, since DEX is my main attribute. Is Power Attack still superior?
Power attack is something independent from STR and DEX. It doesn't matter if you are DEX or STR or (CHA, see Desna's Shooting Star) based . It is also prereq for some neat stuff (Cornugon Smash, Dreadful Carnage if you want to that route) compared to completely irrelevant Piranha Style.

Edit:
Parabalus, I know Dueling Swords have a very good progression, but their other bonuses look underwhelming to me (unless I failed to pay attention to a really good one somewhere). +5 where?! I have not used them this far and I do not remember it. Are you sure?
If you cheese your path to Lonely Barrow Boss fight you can get Bloodhound. I assume he is talking about it
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,540
Parabalus, I know Dueling Swords have a very good progression, but their other bonuses look underwhelming to me (unless I failed to pay attention to a really good one somewhere). +5 where?! I have not used them this far and I do not remember it. Are you sure?

The lich in LB, you can get it without killing him. It's the best one there is.

I considered running the same SS19/TM1 (also Lawful Evil heh) build, betting on getting bloodhound early, but decided on Kineticist instead.
 
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Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Ah, I had forgotten about the Lonely Barrow Dueling Sword!

Game adds 1.5 times your damage stat modifier if you are striking with two hand. Yes, this works for slashing grace for some reason.

OK, this cleared up the source of my confusion, and suddenly I can make sense of the whole situation. Cheers!

Still, the needed belts come later and there are plenty DR enemies before that, so I may have to redesign my stats and increase STR a little bit. I will have to think about this.
 

GamersRiseUppp

Barely Literate
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
1
Hey guys I want to create a chaotic good slayer (GUTS like) character. Are there any good builds you can refer me to ?
 

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