Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[vazha]

Damn, some bits in this game are so well-written and some are damn right uninspiring. In lizzardfolk village right now and loving everything. The capital though... utter borefest.

 

[Sheepherder]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Okay, I honestly don't know what to do with Jaethal. Black Archer Man replaced her for good.

Any ideas for Jaethal development? Her undead gimmick has any use?
Or maybe general tips for inquisitors? I'm not sure what role she should have in the party.

 

[Jarpie]

She gets some nice bonuses from the teamwork traits, like outflank gives +2ab if you are flanking an enemy (although the description says it's +4ab), there's one for AC too, if she's flanked with a team mate.

 

[santino27]

Okay, I honestly don't know what to do with Jaethal. Black Archer Man replaced her for good.

Any ideas for Jaethal development? Her undead gimmick has any use?
Or maybe general tips for inquisitors? I'm not sure what role she should have in the party.

I'm taking her 3 inq/17 invulnerable rager. She has so many immunities as an undead that it seems viable. Healing isn't great at that point, unless you have a cleric devote significant spell slots to her, but eh...

 

[vazha]

Okay, I honestly don't know what to do with Jaethal. Black Archer Man replaced her for good.

Any ideas for Jaethal development? Her undead gimmick has any use?
Or maybe general tips for inquisitors? I'm not sure what role she should have in the party.

I'm taking her 3 inq/17 invulnerable rager. She has so many immunities as an undead that it seems viable. Healing isn't great at that point, unless you have a cleric devote significant spell slots to her, but eh...

good thinking, this

 

[Yosharian]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

 

[J1M]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

 

[Serus]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

By the pnp rules sneak attack is supposed to only apply once, to the first ray, that's why. AFAIK. Rogue attacks with weapons is an unrelated matter.

 

[J1M]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

By the pnp rules sneak attack is supposed to only apply once, to the first ray, that's why. Afaik. Rogue attacks with weapons is an unrelated matter.

Perhaps you could link to somewhere on the pathfinder wiki that supports your position...

 

[Yosharian]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

Ok, I actually didn't realise you could straight up Sneak Attack without Surprise Spell providing that the spell gives an attack roll and deals damage. So, I learned something there. My bad.

HOWEVER:

Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?
No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).

(from Paizo FAQ here: https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qqm )

So no, you don't get to add your Sneak Attack damage to every attack in a spell that contains multiple attacks, like Scorching Ray.

I mean for god's sake guys, this is blatantly overpowered.

 

[Incendax]

Perhaps you could link to somewhere on the pathfinder wiki that supports your position...

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/pr...ulebook/arcane-trickster/#TOC-Surprise-Spells

The FAQ section under Surprise Spells.

 

[Serus]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

By the pnp rules sneak attack is supposed to only apply once, to the first ray, that's why. Afaik. Rogue attacks with weapons is an unrelated matter.

Perhaps you could link to somewhere on the pathfinder wiki that supports your position...

Yosharian beat me to it and already quoted Paizo's answer in FAQ on that matter but just in case you missed it:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qqm

 

[J1M]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

Ok, I actually didn't realise you could straight up Sneak Attack without Surprise Spell providing that the spell gives an attack roll and deals damage. So, I learned something there. My bad.

HOWEVER:

Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?
No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).

(from Paizo FAQ here: https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qqm )

So no, you don't get to add your Sneak Attack damage to every attack in a spell that contains multiple attacks, like Scorching Ray.

I mean for god's sake guys, this is blatantly overpowered.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm not sure why it would be considered so overpowered though, as a rogue will regularly land more than one attack per round.

 

[Incendax]

Okay, I honestly don't know what to do with Jaethal. Black Archer Man replaced her for good.
Any ideas for Jaethal development? Her undead gimmick has any use?

There is a lot you can do with her, depending on how much you want to violate her story. She's got a great statline.

Lore Reasonable:
1) Fighter 2 / Inquisitor 18.
2) Herald Caller 19.
3) Sorcerer (Undead) 19.
4) Eldritch Scion (Undead) 19.
5) Blight Druid 19.

Screw The Lore:
1) Empyreal Sorcerer 19.
2) Knife Master 19.
3) Vivisectionist 19.
4) Mad Dog 16 / Inquisitor 4.

But if you are willing to edit classes, turn her into a Mad Dog 2 / Sacred Huntmaster 18. :D

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Well my little strategy at level 5 isn't much but here goes.

My Aasimar Archaeologist has 3 Bard/2 Rogue. Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Intimidating Prowess (rolls 13 + 3 CHR + 3 STR for Demoralize checks, peoples gonna be scurred), Can cast Hypnotism, Hideous Laughter and uses the Barkskin once per day armor (Woodland Aegis I think it's called).

Valerie, tank all the way. Shield Focus, forget what else, nothing too exciting. AC is as high as I can possibly make it right now.

Amiri, using a +1 Glaive for 6 ft. reach, Outflank + Precise Strike both with Jaethal as teamwork feats. Took a level of Two Handed Fighter to get the BAB for Outflank at level 5.

Jaethal, also took a level of Two Handed Fighter, Outflank + Precise Strike. Passed on Bane at level 5 Inquisitor for now to get that sweet Outflank. Also using a +1 Longspear for reach, so both of them can stand behind Valerie and still flank the enemies. She's good at Demoralizing, too, and giving Guidance (+1 skill checks) to whoever needs it as an orison.

Linzi doing her Bard thing. Light healer for the group with Cure Light/Moderate Wounds, can also use Magic Devices and actually beat the Stag Lord with a Call Lightning scroll. Has Inspire Courage and Inspire Competence for skill checks. Great with a bow, high attack bonus and also has Precise Shot, etc..

Octavia took another level of Rogue, 3 Wiz/2 Rog for reasons of unlocking a second Sneak Attack bonus to became an Arcane Trickster. Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Slow Reactions Rogue feat which makes any sneak attacked target not be able to make Attacks of Opportunity for a round. She uses spells like Cat's Grace (increase her own ranged touch + Linzi's bow skills or my Archaeologist's AC, etc.) and Web when necessary. Also Enlarge/Reduce Person, very helpful for Amiri and Valerie respectively, and her Snowball has won us a fight or two.

That's at level 5 and I don't have the best builds but I'm trying here man, I'm trying. Trying not to screw up the level ups too badly, really.

 

[Andnjord]

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm not sure why it would be considered so overpowered though, as a rogue will regularly land more than one attack per round.

Does a rogue regularly land 6 attack per round with each of these attack inflicting 12 or more d6 of Unholy/Fire damage?

 

[Incendax]

Octavia took another level of Rogue, 3 Wiz/2 Rog for reasons of unlocking a second Sneak Attack bonus to became an Arcane Trickster. Accomplished Sneak Attacker.

Accomplished Sneak Attacker qualifies you for Arcane Trickster without a 2nd level of Rogue.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Accomplished Sneak Attacker qualifies you for Arcane Trickster without a 2nd level of Rogue.

3rd level you mean? I had to have 2 levels in Sneak Attack, which is Rogue 3rd level. But I got Accomplished Sneak Attacker at level 2 Rogue with her. So I guess level 6 will be Arcane Trickster, then, and a second level of Sneak Attack is not necessary?

 

[Andnjord]

Took a level of Two Handed Fighter to get the BAB for Outflank at level 5.

Might as well make that three to get the better strength bonus to damage.

Accomplished Sneak Attacker qualifies you for Arcane Trickster without a 2nd level of Rogue.

3rd level you mean? I had to have 2 levels in Sneak Attack, which is Rogue 3rd level. But I got Accomplished Sneak Attacker at level 2 Rogue with her. So I guess level 6 will be Arcane Trickster, then, and a second level of Sneak Attack is not necessary?

You only need one level of rogue and Accomplished Sneak attacker to qualify for Arcane Trickster. I know it, I just found out about it too....at lvl11

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Took a level of Two Handed Fighter to get the BAB for Outflank at level 5.

Might as well make that three to get the better strength bonus to damage.

Yep, was thinking of that. Her and Jaethal each got a Two Handed Fighter level because I want them to use two-handed weapons and preferably ones with reach as they are currently. So they're just jabbing away and flanking enemies, my Archaeologist is sneak attacking and flanking while Valerie absorbs damage and Linzi is singing or slinging bolts while Octavia does her sneak attack thing. Level 3 and even Level 5 I think both have good two-handed weapon perks but I think next level I'm going Inquisitor for Jaethal for that sweet Level 5 Bane. Not sure about Amiri yet, might continue her in the Fighter path.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

You only need one level of rogue and Accomplished Sneak attacker to qualify for Arcane Trickster. I know it, I just found out about it too....at lvl11

Okay, but how do you get Accomplished Sneak Attacker without a second level of Rogue? Some other class? Or is it a normal level 5 feat for her?

 

[Shadenuat]

1) Fighter 2 / Inquisitor 18.

It is not that easy to reach level 20 in this game
If even possible

Why fighter 2? She has high enough DEX for medium armor and her weapon selection is solid enough. You're just making her go for her Cleric spells that much longer and you want them quick.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

You only need one level of rogue and Accomplished Sneak attacker to qualify for Arcane Trickster. I know it, I just found out about it too....at lvl11

Okay, but how do you get Accomplished Sneak Attacker without a second level of Rogue? Some other class? Or is it a normal level 5 feat for her?

Once you have sneak attack from that first rogue level, you can take accomplished sneak attack with a wizard level.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Once you have sneak attack from that first rogue level, you can take accomplished sneak attack with a wizard level.

Got damn it. So what bonus did I get for taking her to 2nd level, and possibly now 3rd level Rogue (if I didn't get a bonus from 2nd level, might as well go to third, or just Arcane Trickster next level) ? While leveling up I thought she was seeing that because I took the Rogue level. Do I get any perks for giving her 2nd level in Rogue? An extra point in Reflex Saves or something at least?