Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Sacred82]

question gize, how transparent is this game for a Pathfinder noob? Like, can I see class features that I get later or feats with prerequisites from the start?

 

[Haplo]

Pretty much yes (need to turn on the visibility of feats you don't qualify for yet). You also see a nice chart of class progression.

But still, I'd not say its particularly noob friendly.
You don't see anything about Prestige Classes before you qualify for them (except their prerequisites).

One area that's particularly bad is spell transparency. What spells you will get, at what levels, what will be their effects. Even worse when you're, say, an Eldiritch Scion, you get bonus spells from your Bloodline, but the levels listed are levels when a Sorceror would get them - you will get them much later and won't get the ones that are above 6th spell level at all.

When you select feats, you do not see what other feats they are required for. So you have to kinda work "backwards". Find final feats you want and check their prerequisites.

 

[vazha]

Uh, just use the respec mod found in nexus website. Don't need Cheat Engine.

Obligatory lol @ build.

Fucking hell. So I tried this, installed the mod, then it tells me to load the game and press Ctrl F10, which I do, the laptop asks me whether i want to split screens. What the hell.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Uh, just use the respec mod found in nexus website. Don't need Cheat Engine.

Obligatory lol @ build.

Fucking hell. So I tried this, installed the mod, then it tells me to load the game and press Ctrl F10, which I do, the laptop asks me whether i want to split screens. What the hell.

Are you sure you installed UMM correctly? It should pop up as soon as you open the game.

 

[vazha]

It pops up, everything is green (as in active), I push save, then close it, then load the game. Then ctrl f10 and the game tabs down and laptop asks me whether i want to split screens. Same happens when i just push F10. The other mod, that enables you to go to world map from every location works fine.

 

[Lawntoilet]

It pops up, everything is green (as in active), I push save, then close it, then load the game. Then ctrl f10 and the game tabs down and laptop asks me whether i want to split screens. Same happens when i just push F10. The other mod, that enables you to go to world map from every location works fine.

Your computer must be overriding the game then, you probably have to change the function of your F10 key.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I figured that Valeria can't tank for shit (above normal).
So I thought, if she can't tank anyway... why try? And made her a sorcerer at lvl2. With Shield spell she actually has the same AC as with tower shield, the difference is she has no attack penalty and with her bastard sword 2handed she actually hits and deals damage once in a while.
So... what to do?
Fighter 1->Sorc 6 - EK 10 or Fighter 1->Sorc 4-> DD 4 for +4STR and +2 AC -> EK 10

Also, Jaethal is probably just better as tank because she isn't subject to all these conditions, frightened, sickened, feared etc and if she dies she just gets up afterwards.
In my current game she's lvl3 Inquisitor. How to make a good tank out of her? Ideas?

 

[Haplo]

Eh, I think you're underestimating Val's defensive potential.
Shield spell is +4 AC, period. Tower Shield can go up to +9 AC (at +5) +2 Greater Shield Focus, +1/2 Shield Wall teamwork. So that's up to 8/9 AC more. Also her class removes the attack penalty at level 5.
True, for her to tank anything remotely dangerous above Normal, you have to buff the shit out of her (Barkskin, Shield of Faith, Blur, Magic Vestment, maybe Cat's Grace, Protection from Evil) and give her all best defensive stuff (including Dex increasing items, as her class also increases Dex bonus allowance for armor and Tower Shields).

You could go crazy, keep her weapon hand empty and go for the Crane Style defensive feats. That might be going too far though, I think. Particularly that there is supposedly a +3 dodge AC dagger for hardcore defense mode somewhere out there.

So IMO just mix her Tower Shield Specialist with Stalwart Defender, when available. Later on you can dip Vivi for a little extra Natural Armor, sneak attack and Dex or Str.
Offense wise, I mainly use her for Dazzling Display aoe shaken.

Of course a custom made, optimized defender build would be considerably better. And her Will save is a pain.


Edit: Jaethal's immunities are great, but I don't think she can hold a candle to Val AC-wise.

 

[Cael]

By the way, just out of interest, are Aasimar outsider (native) in Paizoland and if so, do they get the automatic Martial Weapons: All feat?

 

[Cael]

Eh, I think you're underestimating Val's defensive potential.
Shield spell is +4 AC, period. Tower Shield can go up to +9 AC (at +5) +2 Greater Shield Focus, +1/2 Shield Wall teamwork. So that's up to 8/9 AC more. Also her class removes the attack penalty at level 5.
True, for her to tank anything remotely dangerous above Normal, you have to buff the shit out of her (Barkskin, Shield of Faith, Blur, Magic Vestment, maybe Cat's Grace, Protection from Evil) and give her all best defensive stuff (including Dex increasing items, as her class also increases Dex bonus allowance for armor and Tower Shields).

You could go crazy, keep her weapon hand empty and go for the Crane Style defensive feats. That might be going too far though, I think. Particularly that there is supposedly a +3 dodge AC dagger for hardcore defense mode somewhere out there.

So IMO just mix her Tower Shield Specialist with Stalwart Defender, when available. Later on you can dip Vivi or something.
Offense wise, I mainly use her for Dazzling Display aoe shaken.

Of course a custom made, optimized defender build would be considerably better. And her Will save is a pain.

What is her Wis? If it is moderately high, making her a Fighter 4/Cleric x is a viable option. Cleric get a ton of defensive buffs that will help her out plus Divine Power and Righteous Might are staples of the cleric tank.

 

[Shadenuat]

Eh, I think you're underestimating Val's defensive potential

She just needs many levels and some equipment to reach those things that should make TSS good. I have played her both ways. You really have to be patient with that shit, especially since she can also

Spoiler

become a paladin

(unconfirmed, I kept her LN)

You don't want to wait, take Vivi 1 for +str, then roll Magus till the end, take +Charisma item and Arcana which adds Charisma to Attack Rating = Valerie salvaged.

 

[Jarpie]

I figured that Valeria can't tank for shit (above normal).
So I thought, if she can't tank anyway... why try? And made her a sorcerer at lvl2. With Shield spell she actually has the same AC as with tower shield, the difference is she has no attack penalty and with her bastard sword 2handed she actually hits and deals damage once in a while.
So... what to do?
Fighter 1->Sorc 6 - EK 10 or Fighter 1->Sorc 4-> DD 4 for +4STR and +2 AC -> EK 10

Also, Jaethal is probably just better as tank because she isn't subject to all these conditions, frightened, sickened, feared etc and if she dies she just gets up afterwards.
In my current game she's lvl3 Inquisitor. How to make a good tank out of her? Ideas?

Jaethal gets teamwork feats, which some adds bonus AC when she's adjacent with a party member. One adds at least +2ac if they are flanked, and another one adds shield ac if either one is wearing a shield. I can check those when I'm at home.

 

[panda]

I figured that Valeria can't tank for shit (above normal).

Lvl 12 with subpar gear(i've found stuff for another +3 several hours later), defensive mode deactivated.
And she took this shit down one on one in 6 rounds. Buffed of course, but still...

In D&D a tank is generally not something that can not get hit. It's something that can survive being hit. The reason is that the Attack bonuses of monsters can quickly go through the roof and especially in this game they do.

This is also true. You'll need hp too, not AC only.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Fucking hell. So I tried this, installed the mod, then it tells me to load the game and press Ctrl F10, which I do, the laptop asks me whether i want to split screens. What the hell.

because you have a (probably lenovo) laptop and all your F keys are tied to laptop shortcuts? Press the Fn key as well and/or disable the shortcut keys in your lenovo(?) settings.

 

[Haplo]

Jaethal gets teamwork feats, which some adds bonus AC when she's adjacent with a party member. One adds at least +2ac if they are flanked, and another one adds shield ac if either one is wearing a shield. I can check those when I'm at home.

So what's stopping you from taking those feats on Val to make her even more tanky?

 

[Serus]

Jaethal gets teamwork feats, which some adds bonus AC when she's adjacent with a party member. One adds at least +2ac if they are flanked, and another one adds shield ac if either one is wearing a shield. I can check those when I'm at home.

But those aren't Inquisitor-only feats, you can take them for Valerie as well, fighters get tons of feats anyway. In addition the shield wall one (or whatever is called) requires a second shield-user nearby which you might not want to use/not be able to do all the time.

 

[Jarpie]

Other classes need both characters to have the feats, but inquisitor will get to use them as long as they are adjacent to a party member.

 

[hell bovine]

I figured that Valeria can't tank for shit (above normal).

She worked just fine for me on old challenging (idk what it is now), and I had no idea what to do with her so left her a plain fighter. Piled all the heavy armor on her, which meant she couldn't walk, only crawl, in combat, but she could tank.

As for multiclassing, I could actually see her as a bard (thundercaller perhaps?), because it fits her background. She already learned all the prancing and dancing at that fancy school of hers.

 

[Serus]

Other classes need both characters to have the feats, but inquisitor will get to use them as long as they are adjacent to a party member.

Good point, however consider this:
1) You still need someone adjacent, Valerie (as long as she isn't using teamwork feats for defense) isn't reliant on that.
2) I think that other person still needs to have a shield. Inquisitor with solo tactics treats his allies as having his teamwork feats but that doesn't mean he can circumvent the requirements needed for the feat to work. Read this:
Solo Tactics (Ex)
At 3rd level, all of the inquisitor’s allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the inquisitor for the purpose of determining whether the inquisitor receives a bonus from her teamwork feats. Her allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. The allies’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the inquisitor to receive the listed bonus.

So I would assume that even with solo tactics Inquisitor still needs the other character to have a shield (but not the feat itself).

 

[Jarpie]

Other classes need both characters to have the feats, but inquisitor will get to use them as long as they are adjacent to a party member.

Good point, however consider this:
1) You still need someone adjacent, Valerie (as long as she isn't using teamwork feats for defense) isn't reliant on that.
2) I think that other person still needs to have a shield. Inquisitor with solo tactics treats his allies as having his teamwork feats but that doesn't mean he can circumvent the requirements needed for the feat to work. Read this:
Solo Tactics (Ex)
At 3rd level, all of the inquisitor’s allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the inquisitor for the purpose of determining whether the inquisitor receives a bonus from her teamwork feats. Her allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. The allies’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the inquisitor to receive the listed bonus.

So I would assume you still need the other character to have a shield.

Yeah, but outflank, back to back and precise strike doesn't require the shield IIRC.

 

[Serus]

Other classes need both characters to have the feats, but inquisitor will get to use them as long as they are adjacent to a party member.

Good point, however consider this:
1) You still need someone adjacent, Valerie (as long as she isn't using teamwork feats for defense) isn't reliant on that.
2) I think that other person still needs to have a shield. Inquisitor with solo tactics treats his allies as having his teamwork feats but that doesn't mean he can circumvent the requirements needed for the feat to work. Read this:
Solo Tactics (Ex)
At 3rd level, all of the inquisitor’s allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the inquisitor for the purpose of determining whether the inquisitor receives a bonus from her teamwork feats. Her allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. The allies’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the inquisitor to receive the listed bonus.

So I would assume you still need the other character to have a shield.

Yeah, but outflank, back to back and precise strike doesn't require the shield IIRC.

Sure, back to back helps indeed but neither outflank nor precise strike is very relevant for tanking. And you still need someone adjacent to inquisitor for it to work, even with solo tactics. Obviously a Tower Shield Specialist will be less versatile than an (undead) Inquisitor. But less of a tank? That's the question, I think.
Besides if you plan to have more than one front liner, You will probably want to take outflank on every single of your frontliners anyway - if possible. it's a very good feat with flanking being practically guaranteed in the computer game.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Eh, I think you're underestimating Val's defensive potential.
Shield spell is +4 AC, period. Tower Shield can go up to +9 AC (at +5) +2 Greater Shield Focus, +1/2 Shield Wall teamwork. So that's up to 8/9 AC more. Also her class removes the attack penalty at level 5.
True, for her to tank anything remotely dangerous above Normal, you have to buff the shit out of her (Barkskin, Shield of Faith, Blur, Magic Vestment, maybe Cat's Grace, Protection from Evil) and give her all best defensive stuff (including Dex increasing items, as her class also increases Dex bonus allowance for armor and Tower Shields).

You could go crazy, keep her weapon hand empty and go for the Crane Style defensive feats. That might be going too far though, I think. Particularly that there is supposedly a +3 dodge AC dagger for hardcore defense mode somewhere out there.

So IMO just mix her Tower Shield Specialist with Stalwart Defender, when available. Later on you can dip Vivi for a little extra Natural Armor, sneak attack and Dex or Str.
Offense wise, I mainly use her for Dazzling Display aoe shaken.

Of course a custom made, optimized defender build would be considerably better. And her Will save is a pain.


Edit: Jaethal's immunities are great, but I don't think she can hold a candle to Val AC-wise.

Look, I finished chapter one with her tanking, and she performed poorly. It's great that she's finally becoming good at it at a high level... but who's playing the game until then? I didn't have someone who could cast Barkskin, Blur etc in chapter one. You? All those builds that take 10 or even more levels before they stop being worthless are... crap. For me it's more about being able to tank (or kill stuff quick) when it counts at the begginning, looking at higher levels I'm certain jaethal can be just as good - better actually due to better stats and irrelevant will saves - after all, nothing stops you to do all that stuff with Jaethal as well.

In addition to NOT being able to survive, Val also contributed hardly anything to the offense. Now in the new run with her fighter 1/sorc 2 she has the same AC should would have with tower shield (at that level) but actually kills things. She also has Enlarge. And when she reaches the level where she would have had equipment like that +5 tower shield you mentioned she will have sorcerer casting granting survivabilty and far more utility / offensive power than she would have as a fighter. So, no I don't underestimate her potential to finally be able to tank at level X, I merely don't see her performing at all in chapter 1 and 2. If you know how to build her so she can perform that role on hard in ch1/2 then spill the beans.

My question regarding her wasn't to tank or not to tank (answer is no imo) but whether to go for 4 dragon disciple to get that +4str +2ac or to go for EK immediately. Sometimes when sufficient defense isn't achievable (early enough), overwhelming offense is the only feasible way.

Jaethal I already gave back to back so she always has +2ac when flanked, the question is stay inquisitor or go something else. Go fighter for more feats to get improved unarmed fighting and crane style? Go cleric? How to increase her tankiness as quickly as possible? If you go s&b ranger will l6 shield master counter the penalty from tower shields? Ranger would let her cast barkskin for instance and lead blades.

 

[Serus]

Eh, I think you're underestimating Val's defensive potential.
Shield spell is +4 AC, period. Tower Shield can go up to +9 AC (at +5) +2 Greater Shield Focus, +1/2 Shield Wall teamwork. So that's up to 8/9 AC more. Also her class removes the attack penalty at level 5.
True, for her to tank anything remotely dangerous above Normal, you have to buff the shit out of her (Barkskin, Shield of Faith, Blur, Magic Vestment, maybe Cat's Grace, Protection from Evil) and give her all best defensive stuff (including Dex increasing items, as her class also increases Dex bonus allowance for armor and Tower Shields).

You could go crazy, keep her weapon hand empty and go for the Crane Style defensive feats. That might be going too far though, I think. Particularly that there is supposedly a +3 dodge AC dagger for hardcore defense mode somewhere out there.

So IMO just mix her Tower Shield Specialist with Stalwart Defender, when available. Later on you can dip Vivi for a little extra Natural Armor, sneak attack and Dex or Str.
Offense wise, I mainly use her for Dazzling Display aoe shaken.

Of course a custom made, optimized defender build would be considerably better. And her Will save is a pain.


Edit: Jaethal's immunities are great, but I don't think she can hold a candle to Val AC-wise.

Look, I finished chapter one with her tanking, and she performed poorly. It's great that she's finally becoming good at it at a high level... but who's playing the game until then? I didn't have someone who could cast Barkskin, Blur etc in chapter one. You? All those builds that take 10 or even more levels before they stop being worthless are... crap. For me it's more about being able to tank (or kill stuff quick) when it counts at the begginning, looking at higher levels I'm certain jaethal can be just as good - better actually due to better stats and irrelevant will saves - after all, nothing stops you to do all that stuff with Jaethal as well.

In addition to NOT being able to survive, Val also contributed hardly anything to the offense. Now in the new run with her fighter 1/sorc 2 she has the same AC should would have with tower shield (at that level) but actually kills things. She also has Enlarge. And when she reaches the level where she would have had equipment like that +5 tower shield you mentioned she will have sorcerer casting granting survivabilty and far more utility / offensive power than she would have as a fighter. So, no I don't underestimate her potential to finally be able to tank at level X, I merely don't see her performing at all in chapter 1 and 2. If you know how to build her so she can perform that role on hard in ch1/2 then spill the beans.

My question regarding her wasn't to tank or not to tank (answer is no imo) but whether to go for 4 dragon disciple to get that +4str +2ac or to go for EK immediately. Sometimes when sufficient defense isn't achievable (early enough), overwhelming offense is the only feasible way.

Jaethal I already gave back to back so she always has +2ac when flanked, the question is stay inquisitor or go something else. Go fighter for more feats to get improved unarmed fighting and crane style? Go cleric? How to increase her tankiness as quickly as possible? If you go s&b ranger will l6 shield master counter the penalty from tower shields? Ranger would let her cast barkskin for instance and lead blades.

But if you are going to make her to a Sorcerer, isn't it better to simply make a character from scratch to replace her? If you do you will end with a party member better than both Valerie-the-Original and Valerie-made-Sorcerer could be. From power-gaming and min/maxing perspective it's superior to making her Sorcerer. And if you care about larping then it doesn't make sense to make her a sorcerer either. I just fail too see any point of view from where making here sorcerer is the optimal choice.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

But if you are going to make her to a Sorcerer, isn't it better to just straight make a character to replace her from scratch? If you do you will get a party member better than both Valerie-the-Original and Valerie-made-Sorcerer could be. From power-gaming and min/maxing perspective it's superior to making her Sorcerer. And if you care about larping then it doesn't make sense to make her a sorcerer either. I just fail too see any point of view from where making here sorcerer is the optimal choice.

Gish Sorcerer is just an attempt to make do with her stat spread in a better manner than leaving her to be a fighter. Of course a custom toon is better, but since the game is new, for the time being I'd like to play with the official companions.

 

[Sheepherder]

Valerie can tank just fine. At level 2 take monk and crane style (works with weapons), later get mobility to 3, boom @ lvl 3: +4 AC from defensive fighting, +4 shield, +9 armor, +1 dodge, +1 ring, +1 amulet, maybe +1 armor focus.
29-30 AC at lv3 is good enough and she keeps getting better with levels too.