Works well on normal.
Eh, I think you're underestimating Val's defensive potential.
Shield spell is +4 AC, period. Tower Shield can go up to +9 AC (at +5) +2 Greater Shield Focus, +1/2 Shield Wall teamwork. So that's up to 8/9 AC more. Also her class removes the attack penalty at level 5.
True, for her to tank anything remotely dangerous above Normal, you have to buff the shit out of her (Barkskin, Shield of Faith, Blur, Magic Vestment, maybe Cat's Grace, Protection from Evil) and give her all best defensive stuff (including Dex increasing items, as her class also increases Dex bonus allowance for armor and Tower Shields).
You could go crazy, keep her weapon hand empty and go for the Crane Style defensive feats. That might be going too far though, I think. Particularly that there is supposedly a +3 dodge AC dagger for hardcore defense mode somewhere out there.
So IMO just mix her Tower Shield Specialist with Stalwart Defender, when available. Later on you can dip Vivi for a little extra Natural Armor, sneak attack and Dex or Str.
Offense wise, I mainly use her for Dazzling Display aoe shaken.
Of course a custom made, optimized defender build would be considerably better. And her Will save is a pain.
Edit: Jaethal's immunities are great, but I don't think she can hold a candle to Val AC-wise.
Look, I finished chapter one with her tanking, and she performed poorly. It's great that she's finally becoming good at it at a high level... but who's playing the game until then? I didn't have someone who could cast Barkskin, Blur etc in chapter one. You? All those builds that take 10 or even more levels before they stop being worthless are... crap. For me it's more about being able to tank (or kill stuff quick) when it counts at the begginning, looking at higher levels I'm certain jaethal can be just as good - better actually due to better stats and irrelevant will saves - after all, nothing stops you to do all that stuff with Jaethal as well.
In addition to NOT being able to survive, Val also contributed hardly anything to the offense. Now in the new run with her fighter 1/sorc 2 she has the same AC should would have with tower shield (at that level) but actually kills things. She also has Enlarge. And when she reaches the level where she would have had equipment like that +5 tower shield you mentioned she will have sorcerer casting granting survivabilty and far more utility / offensive power than she would have as a fighter. So, no I don't underestimate her potential to finally be able to tank at level X, I merely don't see her performing at all in chapter 1 and 2. If you know how to build her so she can perform that role on hard in ch1/2 then spill the beans.
My question regarding her wasn't to tank or not to tank (answer is no imo) but whether to go for 4 dragon disciple to get that +4str +2ac or to go for EK immediately. Sometimes when sufficient defense isn't achievable (early enough), overwhelming offense is the only feasible way.
Jaethal I already gave back to back so she always has +2ac when flanked, the question is stay inquisitor or go something else. Go fighter for more feats to get improved unarmed fighting and crane style? Go cleric? How to increase her tankiness as quickly as possible? If you go s&b ranger will l6 shield master counter the penalty from tower shields? Ranger would let her cast barkskin for instance and lead blades.
Idk, i think she's good tank right from the very start. The only difference on higher levels is that she becomes capable of killing mobs herself.Look, I finished chapter one with her tanking, and she performed poorly. It's great that she's finally becoming good at it at a high level...
Eh, with her meager (for a sorcerer) charisma it will likely screw her up even more in the long run. If you turn her into a feyspeaker druid (doesn't make sense roleplaying wise, though) and pick up the mastodon as animal companion, you get a passable spellcaster (with barkskin) and a tank at the same time.Gish Sorcerer is just an attempt to make do with her stat spread in a better manner than leaving her to be a fighter. Of course a custom toon is better, but since the game is new, for the time being I'd like to play with the official companions.But if you are going to make her to a Sorcerer, isn't it better to just straight make a character to replace her from scratch? If you do you will get a party member better than both Valerie-the-Original and Valerie-made-Sorcerer could be. From power-gaming and min/maxing perspective it's superior to making her Sorcerer. And if you care about larping then it doesn't make sense to make her a sorcerer either. I just fail too see any point of view from where making here sorcerer is the optimal choice.
Agree, from all the options proposed to change her drastically - Feyspeaker Druid sounds as the best one to me as well. She starts lawful neutral, right? So she can do it in pathfinder.Eh, with her meager (for a sorcerer) charisma it will likely screw her up even more in the long run. If you turn her into a feyspeaker druid (doesn't make sense roleplaying wise, though) and pick up the mastodon as animal companion, you get a passable spellcaster (with barkskin) and a tank at the same time.Gish Sorcerer is just an attempt to make do with her stat spread in a better manner than leaving her to be a fighter. Of course a custom toon is better, but since the game is new, for the time being I'd like to play with the official companions.But if you are going to make her to a Sorcerer, isn't it better to just straight make a character to replace her from scratch? If you do you will get a party member better than both Valerie-the-Original and Valerie-made-Sorcerer could be. From power-gaming and min/maxing perspective it's superior to making her Sorcerer. And if you care about larping then it doesn't make sense to make her a sorcerer either. I just fail too see any point of view from where making here sorcerer is the optimal choice.
The main aggro manipulation skill for Valerie is to charge with her first with everyone behind far enough for the (dumb) AI to have time to focus on her.So are there any CC/aggro manipulation skills for Valeria at all, in the entire game, that allow her to tank for the party? Found zero fighter feats up through lvl 11 that do it, and I don't see any in stalwart tree that allows her to attract minion aggro.
Leads to a lot of save reload on juggling boss aggro but I can't blame Owlcat after Pillars of Eternity's hopeless aggro system.
Could you explain how you've gotten her to 38 AC at level 4?Idk, i think she's good tank right from the very start. The only difference on higher levels is that she becomes capable of killing mobs herself.Look, I finished chapter one with her tanking, and she performed poorly. It's great that she's finally becoming good at it at a high level...
But if 38 AC at lvl4 is poor tanking for you, then it can't be helped.
38 AC? How?Idk, i think she's good tank right from the very start. The only difference on higher levels is that she becomes capable of killing mobs herself.
But if 38 AC at lvl4 is poor tanking for you, then it can't be helped.
Charisma druid with overpowered pet - good idea.Eh, with her meager (for a sorcerer) charisma it will likely screw her up even more in the long run. If you turn her into a feyspeaker druid (doesn't make sense roleplaying wise, though) and pick up the mastodon as animal companion, you get a passable spellcaster (with barkskin) and a tank at the same time.
Unless you consider 3 most basic buffs as a ton i think it is ok.I suspect you're just piling on a ton of AC buffs from other characters...
To be fair i switched to hard only in chapter 3 because the game become piss poor easy, but 38 should be enough for everything apart Owlbear and rats IIRC.Have you played on hard difficulty and experienced her fantastic survivability first hand? Perhaps you should, so you can understand what I'm talking about. We're not only talking about "doesn't survive the encounter" but "dies within the first combat round" territory here. While doing no damage and wandering off frightened way too often. Of course that's not happening every single encounter but it happens too often, so it greatly annoys.
Valerie is like a long term genetics project by holy Emperor. Especially with her haircut.
Her personal quests gives her+2 inherent bonus to STR and CHA, making her stat line 16-14-20-9-10-18
And that might be not the end of it, sinceshe needs higher wisdom to cast paladin spells, meaning there might be yet another upgrade in chapter 6, or an alternative path making her even stronger
DD?My DD is very very strong. It's a great build, viable throughout the entire game. Much better than Yosharian's ones. :murmurs softly:
Can you break down her AC for me? I'm level 10 and she only has 51 with Defensive Style and Defensive Stance active.I figured that Valeria can't tank for shit (above normal).
Lvl 12 with subpar gear(i've found stuff for another +3 several hours later), defensive mode deactivated.
And she took this shit down one on one in 6 rounds. Buffed of course, but still...
This is also true. You'll need hp too, not AC only.In D&D a tank is generally not something that can not get hit. It's something that can survive being hit. The reason is that the Attack bonuses of monsters can quickly go through the roof and especially in this game they do.
Pretty much yes (need to turn on the visibility of feats you don't qualify for yet). You also see a nice chart of class progression.
But still, I'd not say its particularly noob friendly.
You don't see anything about Prestige Classes before you qualify for them (except their prerequisites).
One area that's particularly bad is spell transparency. What spells you will get, at what levels, what will be their effects. Even worse when you're, say, an Eldiritch Scion, you get bonus spells from your Bloodline, but the levels listed are levels when a Sorceror would get them - you will get them much later and won't get the ones that are above 6th spell level at all.
When you select feats, you do not see what other feats they are required for. So you have to kinda work "backwards". Find final feats you want and check their prerequisites.
As someone who had no idea about Pathfinder before playing: if you stick to the "stereotype fantasy" classes, the rules are similar enough that you'll manage. E.g. wizard = intelligence, rogue = dexterity etc. Just don't expect the game to be good at explaining things (and there is no manual either). Also, a lot of things are still bugged, so my advice would be not to plan some crazy barbarian/wizard/ballerina build with every feat written out, but to pick a class you like and take it for a spin.comrades, is there such a thing as noob friendly Pathfinder rules overview? Links highly appreciated.
Alternatively, I have a solid grasp of D&D 3E/ 3.5E, does PF differ significantly?
(feel free to move this post)
Alternatively, I have a solid grasp of D&D 3E/ 3.5E, does PF differ significantly?
Alternatively, I have a solid grasp of D&D 3E/ 3.5E, does PF differ significantly?
You'll feel right at home then. Some things are different and imo better: half-elves are not total crap, skill system is overhauled, cantrips get unlimited casting, multiclassing penalty does not exist, classes can take optional archetypes to further specialize, feats at ever other level, more options to pick in general,... But the core 3.5 is still there.
Can you break down her AC for me? I'm level 10 and she only has 51 with Defensive Style and Defensive Stance active.