Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Shaewaroz]

Can someone tell what type of enchanted backstabbing weapons are available in chapters 1 & 2? I can't decide which weapon skill my thief/mage should take.

You can backstab with anything. My Strenght Vivi often uses a +2 greatclub in Act 1 for his sneak attacks

But you probably mean light and/or finessable weapons. Well, there's an +1 Agile Light Pick and one of the companions of the boss of Act 1 uses a +1 Agile rapier (Agile = can add Dex modifier to damage).

Thanks, much appreciated. Are these special weapon qualities (agile etc) explained in the manual or in game? Or do I have to dig them up from some other source?

PS. As someone whose primary interest in D&D are second edition games like IE games, the concept of backstabbing with a great sword is... unnatural.

 

[Luckmann]

Can someone tell what type of enchanted backstabbing weapons are available in chapters 1 & 2? I can't decide which weapon skill my thief/mage should take.

You can backstab with anything. My Strenght Vivi often uses a +2 greatclub in Act 1 for his sneak attacks

But you probably mean light and/or finessable weapons. Well, there's an +1 Agile Light Pick and one of the companions of the boss of Act 1 uses a +1 Agile rapier (Agile = can add Dex modifier to damage).

Thanks, much appreciated. Are these special weapon qualities (agile etc) explained in the manual or in game? Or do I have to dig them up from some other source?

Read the descriptions in-game.

 

[Haplo]

From what's I've read, rapiers are probably a safe choice throughout (but you might want a smaller offhand). Some decent kukuris too.
But really, I'd take no particular weapon skill this early in the game. Except Weapon Finesse on a Dex character of course - but that's universal. Or maybe only to qualify for some other feat.

I thought Valerie Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword to qualify for Dazzling Display... only to end up using the Light Pick to avoid encumbrance (and -2 Dex bonus!) while under Reduce Person effect... fortunately she can still make her performance with that (which is probably a bug/feature... but one that I like).

 

[Elex]

Can someone tell what type of enchanted backstabbing weapons are available in chapters 1 & 2? I can't decide which weapon skill my thief/mage should take.

thief mage don’t need weapons.
they backstab with spells/canttrips.

 

[Absinthe]

Phylactery +2d6
Band of Charisma
Extra Channeling feat
Happy heals.

You got conned. You're making an expensive investment in both items and a feat when for out-of-combat healing all you really need is a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750gp -> 50 uses).

Im not arguing that you cannot make Harrim into a decent healer but his 10 charisma score is his biggest weakness considering wisdom and charisma are the most important stats for cleric. With + 6 charisma band and extra channeling feat he is at same level as Tristian without gear. Also considering those same items with Tristian heals are even much more happier. I had biggest problems with healing at the start of the game (hard) when money was very limited and charisma gear + phylactery was not available (ghost guy dropped this I think at witch swamp so its quite early). Chapter 3+ money is not a problem to buy all the potions and scrolls so middle / late game its more about buffs / removing debuffs and debuffing enemy and I dont think there is a big difference between Tristian and Harrim regarding those areas.

Charisma is a giant trap for Clerics. The only thing it's used for is Channel Energy and if all you want are heals, just get the Wand of Cure Light Wounds and you're set; it's a much better option than spending precious point buy on charisma of all things. Charisma is the stat you should always dump to 7 or lower (ie. Dwarf) to save on points unless you're playing a Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, Eldritch Scion Magus, or Feyspeaker Druid because charisma does not matter. Those points could've been much better spent on stats like constitution, dexterity, or wisdom.

 

[Cael]

Phylactery +2d6
Band of Charisma
Extra Channeling feat
Happy heals.

You got conned. You're making an expensive investment in both items and a feat when for out-of-combat healing all you really need is a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750gp -> 50 uses).

Im not arguing that you cannot make Harrim into a decent healer but his 10 charisma score is his biggest weakness considering wisdom and charisma are the most important stats for cleric. With + 6 charisma band and extra channeling feat he is at same level as Tristian without gear. Also considering those same items with Tristian heals are even much more happier. I had biggest problems with healing at the start of the game (hard) when money was very limited and charisma gear + phylactery was not available (ghost guy dropped this I think at witch swamp so its quite early). Chapter 3+ money is not a problem to buy all the potions and scrolls so middle / late game its more about buffs / removing debuffs and debuffing enemy and I dont think there is a big difference between Tristian and Harrim regarding those areas.

Charisma is a giant trap for Clerics. The only thing it's used for is Channel Energy and if all you want are heals, just get the Wand of Cure Light Wounds and you're set; it's a much better option than spending precious point buy on charisma of all things. Charisma is the stat you should always dump to 7 or lower (ie. Dwarf) to save on points unless you're playing a Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, Eldritch Scion Magus, or Feyspeaker Druid because charisma does not matter. Those points could've been much better spent on stats like constitution, dexterity, or wisdom.

I suppose the game doesn't have Lesser Vigour? That was the best out of combat heal in a wand. Fast Healing 1 for 10+ 1/level rounds (or 11 for a bog standard level 1 wand).

50 uses for 750gp, heals a guaranteed 550 hp in chunks of 11 hp.

Far better than 50x 1d8+1.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Phylactery +2d6
Band of Charisma
Extra Channeling feat
Happy heals.

You got conned. You're making an expensive investment in both items and a feat when for out-of-combat healing all you really need is a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750gp -> 50 uses).

Not in this game, I've seen exactly one wand of cure light wounds so far, half depleted. This is actually not a bad investment for Tristian, as a heal bot he is not half bad. And not just for out-of-combat healing either, dropping one of these each round goes a long way to keep the party on their feet in some tougher encounters.

 

[ArchAngel]

So anyone got any tips what to do with Nok Nok instead of standard 20 levels of Rogue (knife specialist)? Maybe two levels of fighter to get some extra feats and then pickup Accomplished Sneak attacker?
Or some Vivisectionist? Something else? Both his Wis and Charisma are bad so going into any casting class using those stats is useless. Maybe 1-2 levels of Sage Sorcerer to pick up Mage armor and Shield for more AC (his Dex is too high for most armors)?

 

[Yosharian]

Phylactery +2d6
Band of Charisma
Extra Channeling feat
Happy heals.

You got conned. You're making an expensive investment in both items and a feat when for out-of-combat healing all you really need is a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750gp -> 50 uses).

Im not arguing that you cannot make Harrim into a decent healer but his 10 charisma score is his biggest weakness considering wisdom and charisma are the most important stats for cleric. With + 6 charisma band and extra channeling feat he is at same level as Tristian without gear. Also considering those same items with Tristian heals are even much more happier. I had biggest problems with healing at the start of the game (hard) when money was very limited and charisma gear + phylactery was not available (ghost guy dropped this I think at witch swamp so its quite early). Chapter 3+ money is not a problem to buy all the potions and scrolls so middle / late game its more about buffs / removing debuffs and debuffing enemy and I dont think there is a big difference between Tristian and Harrim regarding those areas.

Charisma is a giant trap for Clerics. The only thing it's used for is Channel Energy and if all you want are heals, just get the Wand of Cure Light Wounds and you're set; it's a much better option than spending precious point buy on charisma of all things. Charisma is the stat you should always dump to 7 or lower (ie. Dwarf) to save on points unless you're playing a Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, Eldritch Scion Magus, or Feyspeaker Druid because charisma does not matter. Those points could've been much better spent on stats like constitution, dexterity, or wisdom.

That's my thought exactly regarding CHA on Clerics. Clerics are MAD enough as it is without trying to get a decent CHA score, good god. Dump CHA and sort out the healing with other tools.

That said, you can't simply buy a Wand of CLW in this game, so there's that. I still don't think it's worth spending point-buy on CHA, though.

 

[hell bovine]

Might or might not be, I was considering an evil cleric with offensive channel energy (inspired by the mite priests), since apparently it gives you a choice between damage living / heal undead, so it would be something to use on the undead elf in a pinch.

Edit: Also, how useful charisma is depends on whether you talk about a custom hireling, or the baron/baroness, who benefit from having a high persuasion skill.

 

[Luckmann]

It annoys me so much that there are no Divine Feats in the game, so if you have shit Charisma as a Cleric, Channelling has practically no use, and Paladins can't do anything worthwile with their Channelling either.

 

[Jaedar]

Can someone explain to me how mystic theurge works with spontaneous casting and stuff in general?
I have a 4Sorc,3Druid, 4 Theurge, so I should be able to cross level 2 spells over the slots. This works for some spells (like barkskin), but for example doesn't worth with the +4 stat spells (Cat's grace and the like). Why is that ?

Also despite the perk seeming to state only one spell may cross, it seems you can do it for any number of them.

Am I just misunderstanding how this is supposed to work or is the implementation wrong?

Also it seems like the infernal bloodline is a trap, because there are only compulsion spells in the game, and no charm spells. I may have missed a spell or two, but comparing to the wiki it seems all the enchantment spells in the game are of the compulsion type (fey sorc seems quite strong with +2 DC, although your targets are limited).

 

[Luckmann]

cross level 2 spells over the slots

I am not sure what you mean by this.

Also it seems like the infernal bloodline is a trap, because there are only compulsion spells in the game, and no charm spells. I may have missed a spell or two, but comparing to the wiki it seems all the enchantment spells in the game are of the compulsion type (fey sorc seems quite strong with +2 DC, although your targets are limited).

Lots of "dead" references in the game, inclusing the one to charm spells, so yes, it becomes a bit of a trap.

About Fey, isn't that the bloodline that also lets you target a bunch of shit regardless of type?

 

[Jaedar]

I am not sure what you mean by this.

You can use a slot in your arcane class to cast a spell from your divine class, or the other way around, but it costs 1 spell slot higher.

About Fey, isn't that the bloodline that also lets you target a bunch of shit regardless of type?

No. Serpentine lets you use enchantment spells on beasts, Undead lets you use them on undead.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah Infernal is complete shit.

Who is the 'Baron'? Main character?

 

[Shadenuat]

Can someone explain to me how mystic theurge works with spontaneous casting and stuff in general?
I have a 4Sorc,3Druid, 4 Theurge

Why did you pick 1 level too many of sorc? to have even lower levels of spells?

I was thinking about Thassilonian Conjurer + Druid = Theurge as an ultimate meatwall build to try and figure out how far can I go to make game shutdown from too many summons on the screen. Or combining Feyspeaker with Sylvan sorc.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Any thoughts on multiclassing Harrim to 4 Cleric/1 Sacred Huntsmaster (Inquisitor)? He gets a Mastadon pet companion, which fits him lore-wise I feel, and also gives an extra animal to throw on the front line with Valerie. I am speccing Tristian to be 100% Cleric, and he's good at that, and I feel Harrim could be more of a Fighter or work on another class. I thought about multiclassing him to Fighter which I did in my last playthrough, and it worked well as he got good BAB increases and became more of a damage-dealer, but I already have Amiri and Jaethal handing out excellent damage with Precise Strike + Outflank. Harrim can still heal with Channeling Energy plus he gets 2 Inquisitor spells, so I get an extra slot for Bless and an extra slot for Cure Light Wounds for party management. I dunno, I'm a bit torn on it but I think by leveling up the Mastadon long-term it could be an interesting build for him. At level 5 his BAB is +7 and he's using the Greatclub +2 for 6-15 damage, while still being able to heal a bit. Any thoughts on this somewhat strange combination?

 

[Shadenuat]

I'm a bit torn on it but I think by leveling up the Mastadon long-term it could be an interesting build for him

Mad Dog/Cleric?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Mad Dog/Cleric?

That's a thought. Role-playing wise I figure he'd be more of an Inquisitor for Groetus than a Barbarian, but Mad Dog might be pushing too far in the damage department. Those extra 2 spell slots are handy since I can cast an extra Bless (and something else instead for level 1 Cleric) and then an extra Cure Light Wounds just to help with minor healing between rests. Not the most amazing spells or anything but it helps. And the Mastadon role-playing wise fits the old grizzly Dwarf. So I think I'll pass on Mad Dog but I'm wondering if Sacred Huntsmaster is really the way to go...

 

[Jaedar]

Can someone explain to me how mystic theurge works with spontaneous casting and stuff in general?
I have a 4Sorc,3Druid, 4 Theurge

Why did you pick 1 level too many of sorc? to have even lower levels of spells?

I was thinking about Thassilonian Conjurer + Druid = Theurge as an ultimate meatwall build to try and figure out how far can I go to make game shutdown from too many summons on the screen. Or combining Feyspeaker with Sylvan sorc.

Sorcs get higher level spells one level later than everyone else, so you need 4 Sorc for level 2 spells (compared to class level 3 for everyone else).

This obviously kind of sucks, but you want to have only one casting stat, and your options are:
Sorc: cha/int/wis
Wiz: Int
Cleric: Wis
Druid: wis/cha

So it is impossible to choose 1 arcane/1 divine, have 1 casting stat and not have Sorc levels. I guess you *could* go for 17/16 starting build (especially if the theurge is the baron), but you are going to get quite a bit worse DCs, and several less spell slots.

Edit: going double caster stat may not be that terrible, since emberkin gives +2int/+2cha. So you could go wiz/fey druid...

 

[Shaewaroz]

Can someone tell what type of enchanted backstabbing weapons are available in chapters 1 & 2? I can't decide which weapon skill my thief/mage should take.

thief mage don’t need weapons.
they backstab with spells/canttrips.

Does DEX or INT affect the hit chance if you try to backstab with a spell? Or is it dependant on whether its a touch range spell or targetted ranged spell?

 

[hell bovine]

Or combining Feyspeaker with Sylvan sorc.

I'm not sure if going double animal companion classes won't bug it. You could go empyreal sorcerer plus defender druid, though (bonus points for being a dwarf :D).

 

[Luckmann]

Can someone tell what type of enchanted backstabbing weapons are available in chapters 1 & 2? I can't decide which weapon skill my thief/mage should take.

thief mage don’t need weapons.
they backstab with spells/canttrips.

Does DEX or INT affect the hit chance if you try to backstab with a spell? Or is it dependant on whether its a touch range spell or targetted ranged spell?

Ranged Touch Attacks are ranged attacks against the enemy touch AC, and is thus affected by Dexterity. Intelligence never enters into the equation, under normal circumstances.

Or combining Feyspeaker with Sylvan sorc.

I'm not sure if going double animal companion classes won't bug it. You could go empyreal sorcerer plus defender druid, though (bonus points for being a dwarf :D).

I tried out grabbing a Divine Hunter level with Happynegro, and the AC scaled accordingly, so it seems that levels stack together properly. Or at least they can; there's no guarantee it'll work for every combination, something might be fucked.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Any thoughts on multiclassing Harrim to 4 Cleric/1 Sacred Huntsmaster (Inquisitor)? He gets a Mastadon pet companion, which fits him lore-wise I feel, and also gives an extra animal to throw on the front line with Valerie. I am speccing Tristian to be 100% Cleric, and he's good at that, and I feel Harrim could be more of a Fighter or work on another class. I thought about multiclassing him to Fighter which I did in my last playthrough, and it worked well as he got good BAB increases and became more of a damage-dealer, but I already have Amiri and Jaethal handing out excellent damage with Precise Strike + Outflank. Harrim can still heal with Channeling Energy plus he gets 2 Inquisitor spells, so I get an extra slot for Bless and an extra slot for Cure Light Wounds for party management. I dunno, I'm a bit torn on it but I think by leveling up the Mastadon long-term it could be an interesting build for him. At level 5 his BAB is +7 and he's using the Greatclub +2 for 6-15 damage, while still being able to heal a bit. Any thoughts on this somewhat strange combination?

Anyone? I'm going to use Tristian if I want a real Cleric but I'm wondering if investing enough levels to get a decent Mastadon companion is worth it when I'm using Harrim. I do lose access to level 3 Divine spells at this point, so it's probably a bad idea...? And for some reason I don't see any Judgment abilities for him. Does he have to be using his deity's preferred weapon?

 

[Andnjord]

Wouldn't your pet only be lvl 1 though? And even you were to keep on leveling him as an inquisitor the pet would still stay at minus 4 level?