Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[toro]

Well, my two-handed character is finally coming out of his cocoon.

Spoiler

This party is level 6:
Toro is Two-Handed fighter with Finishing Cleave + Outflank
Valerie is Dazzling Display + Enlarge + Outflank
Amiri is Beast Totem + Lethal Stance + Outflank
Octavia is full caster used mostly for buffs (I will look further for offensive spells)
Harrim is full retarded cleric (I will dump him after this quest) <-- Tristian placeholder
Ekun is just Ekun + Devourer of Metal + Multishots

Outflank is like a must for the front-liners. I look forward to add another Team Feat on level 8.

I decided against cross-breeding because I really want to see how the end abilities will work. Octavia is the exception.

With the team above I've steamrolled the Dwarven Ruins on Challenging. Really satisfying. Blood explosions and everything.

 

[J1M]

It is a level 8 spell. What did you expect?

A saving throw

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shoutGreater.htm

Whoever coded it up put a long stun instead of a long deafen effect.

 

[Jermu]

Just realised that space bar repeats action in inventory (for example only need to right click potion once and spam space after it). This can be also used to duplicate items if you right click drop item and press space (decline).

 

[vazha]

This party is level 6:
Toro is Two-Handed fighter with Finishing Cleave + Outflank
Valerie is Dazzling Display + Enlarge + Outflank
Amiri is Beast Totem + Lethal Stance + Outflank
Octavia is full caster used mostly for buffs (I will look further for offensive spells)
Harrim is full retarded cleric (I will dump him after this quest) <-- Tristian placeholder
Ekun is just Ekun + Devourer of Metal + Multishots

Outflank is like a must for the front-liners. I look forward to add another Team Feat on level 8.

I decided against cross-breeding because I really want to see how the end abilities will work. Octavia is the exception.

With the team above I've steamrolled the Dwarven Ruins on Challenging. Really satisfying. Blood explosions and everything.

Why are you using enlarge on your main tank? If anything you should cast reduce person on them

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

After reaching lvl8 in chapter 2 I think:
- make Jaethal tank not Val. CON draining fog? Unaffected. Boss has level draining attacks? Not a problem. Anything targetting will saves? LOLOLO. Dies tanking? Stands up afterwards etc.
- don't sport too many melee, i.e. jaethal + 1 melee so flanking, outflank and the teamwork feats kick in for Jaethal
- I can recommend Eldritch Archer magus as very powerful, 1 lvl vivisectionist, the question is continue magus or go for AT for more sneak dice?
- and yes, animal companions are powerful af, they even add their considerable STR to your carry weight capacity so you're not encumbered even when carrying large amounts of crap

 

[vazha]

VentilatorOfDoom How did you circumvent not being able to heal jaethal? by making her spam inflict wounds on herself?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I heal her with the inflict line of spells, clerics too get to memorize them (tristan can spontaniosly convert to cure spells, so just have him memorize inflict spells instead)
But most importantly I do my best to kill them before they do too much dmg or any dmg at all tbh, against stuff that would shred you spam several webs/entangles, they will fail their saves if there are only enough webs/entangles

 

[ArchAngel]

I heal her with the inflict line of spells, clerics too get to memorize them (tristan can spontaniosly convert to cure spells, so just have him memorize inflict spells instead)
But most importantly I do my best to kill them before they do too much dmg or any dmg at all tbh, against stuff that would shred you spam several webs/entangles, they will fail their saves if there are only enough webs/entangles

I do something similar but I use Harrim instead. He stands next to Jaethal and gives her Shield Wall for extra +2 AC and takes over tank duties vs extra enemies that don't fit to attack Jaethal and go around. I don't use webs and such, I buff the shit out of Jaethal and she tanks everything (she has feats for heavy armor, armor focus, shield focus, Shield wall and Back to Back with her).
And you also forgot that she does not get Fatigue and later gets 3 free animate dead uses which work wonders to delay enemies.

Jaethal and Nok Nok are by far two best characters in the game followed by Ekun.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Did you stay Inquisitor? I gave her 1 fighter lvl but otherwise leveled only inqui.

 

[vazha]

Smart choice. in later stages, looking at what inquisitor has to offer past lvl 11, its better to lvl her up as tower shield specialist fighter.

 

[ArchAngel]

Did you stay Inquisitor? I gave her 1 fighter lvl but otherwise leveled only inqui.

Yea, she is lvl 10 inquisitor.

 

[Parabalus]

Which skills are the most important ones for out of combat and kingdom use?

Can't seem to find a build which will have everything, like I could easily do with HiPS rogues in the NWNs.

 

[toro]

This party is level 6:
Toro is Two-Handed fighter with Finishing Cleave + Outflank
Valerie is Dazzling Display + Enlarge + Outflank
Amiri is Beast Totem + Lethal Stance + Outflank
Octavia is full caster used mostly for buffs (I will look further for offensive spells)
Harrim is full retarded cleric (I will dump him after this quest) <-- Tristian placeholder
Ekun is just Ekun + Devourer of Metal + Multishots

Outflank is like a must for the front-liners. I look forward to add another Team Feat on level 8.

I decided against cross-breeding because I really want to see how the end abilities will work. Octavia is the exception.

With the team above I've steamrolled the Dwarven Ruins on Challenging. Really satisfying. Blood explosions and everything.

Why are you using enlarge on your main tank? If anything you should cast reduce person on them

I know that it looks retarded but if you notice she has Outflank, the defensive stance is not active and usually I buffer her with Bull's Strength as well.

The reason for this is that she already has a high enough AC/Fortitude for most mobs and I'm trying to get some damage from her (besides the Dazzling Display).

And it works, she is doing like 20+ points of damage normally and even more on crits. Much less than my fighter or Amiri but she is no longer useless in offensive.

I do use Reduce Person, Defensive Stance, Shield of Faith + Barkskin when I need her to tank some dangerous boss. But such a high AC doesn't seem to be needed at this point in the game.

 

[Luckmann]

Which skills are the most important ones for out of combat and kingdom use?

Can't seem to find a build which will have everything, like I could easily do with HiPS rogues in the NWNs.

I can say that for the prologue and the first two chapters, I remember no use of Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: World, Stealth, Trickery, or Use Magic Device - in dialogue/CYOA. I'd be surprised if I remember that 100% correctly, but the fact that I don't remember any use says something. I *do* remember at least one use of Knowledge: Religion, but it seemed meaningless.

Perception is king, not in dialogues or CYOA's, but in general, as an ongoing passive that can't be replicated; explore the border of every map, every stone tile, and every cluster of trees. there's hidden stuff on every map. In CYOA's and world interactables, Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*, and Knowledge: Nature also seems to come up a lot in the CYOA's, especially the wilderness ones, as would be expected. Persuasion unsurprisingly features relatively often in dialogues, but I can't for the life of me remember it really mattering, but there are definitely times where it makes things easier/quests shorter.

Again, far from the entire game, and things may change later, but hoepfully it gives you some idea.

Edit: Also, if you want to have as many skills as possible, all you need to do is run something like a high-intelligence Rogue X/Sorcerer 1, and you should be able to get most. Not saying that is a good combo, but in PF, only one of your classes needs to have a class skill in order for it to count as a class skill forever, giving you +3 if you place even a single point in it. Rogue + Sorcerer 1 with an appropriate bloodline should cover pretty much all skills except maybe.. Athletics?

 

[ArchAngel]

Which skills are the most important ones for out of combat and kingdom use?

Can't seem to find a build which will have everything, like I could easily do with HiPS rogues in the NWNs.

I can say that for the prologue and the first two chapters, I remember no use of Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: World, Stealth, Trickery, or Use Magic Device - in dialogue/CYOA. I'd be surprised if I remember that 100% correctly, but the fact that I don't remember any use says something. I *do* remember at least one use of Knowledge: Religion, but it seemed meaningless.

Perception is king, not in dialogues or CYOA's, but in general, as an ongoing passive that can't be replicated; explore the border of every map, every stone tile, and every cluster of trees. there's hidden stuff on every map. In CYOA's and world interactables, Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*, and Knowledge: Nature also seems to come up a lot in the CYOA's, especially the wilderness ones, as would be expected. Persuasion unsurprisingly features relatively often in dialogues, but I can't for the life of me remember it really mattering, but there are definitely times where it makes things easier/quests shorter.

Again, far from the entire game, and things may change later, but hoepfully iy gives you some idea.

All checks matter in all situations because successful checks award XP

 

[Shadenuat]

The most important one is Perception, because that is the one you can't savescum around - because you could never figure you needed it; and because higher game difficultues actually inflate checks.

I can recommend as much as running character with Eyes of the Eagle/+6 Wisdom band + Perception Skill Focus/Jaethal with all that, rest you want later to scout areas for shit you missed or actual world areas for missed locations to enter. It is nice to have +45 Perception already at Armag's tomb lol (Jaethal you best waifu).

In fact, specizalizing all your 6 dudes to some extent up to taking Skill Focus and +items is not THAT bad idea, especially on high difficulties unless you want to kill yourself over and over trying to make that 27 DC athletics check.

Persuasion for the main is obvious
Perception specialist is a must
Trickery Octavia can do it
Athletics and Mobility are also neat
World Knowledge/Arcane Knowledge are somewhat underused, like all Knowledges/Lores tho

 

[Parabalus]

Which skills are the most important ones for out of combat and kingdom use?

Can't seem to find a build which will have everything, like I could easily do with HiPS rogues in the NWNs.

I can say that for the prologue and the first two chapters, I remember no use of Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: World, Stealth, Trickery, or Use Magic Device - in dialogue/CYOA. I'd be surprised if I remember that 100% correctly, but the fact that I don't remember any use says something. I *do* remember at least one use of Knowledge: Religion, but it seemed meaningless.

Perception is king, not in dialogues or CYOA's, but in general, as an ongoing passive that can't be replicated; explore the border of every map, every stone tile, and every cluster of trees. there's hidden stuff on every map. In CYOA's and world interactables, Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*, and Knowledge: Nature also seems to come up a lot in the CYOA's, especially the wilderness ones, as would be expected. Persuasion unsurprisingly features relatively often in dialogues, but I can't for the life of me remember it really mattering, but there are definitely times where it makes things easier/quests shorter.

Again, far from the entire game, and things may change later, but hoepfully iy gives you some idea.

All checks matter in all situations because successful checks award XP

My main issue is that without exploiting HiPS it's hard to make a glass melee like in NWN.

There I could with something very simple like Rogue/Swash/(Assassin or SD) have 8/20/8/16/8/14, get every possible skill and still spam damage (and the game had much easier combat that PF).
Have a similar Knifemaster but even in Prologue/C1 he would get focused quick, thinking it will only get worse.

The class skill stuff is great advice, thanks.

 

[Luckmann]

This party is level 6:
Toro is Two-Handed fighter with Finishing Cleave + Outflank
Valerie is Dazzling Display + Enlarge + Outflank
Amiri is Beast Totem + Lethal Stance + Outflank
Octavia is full caster used mostly for buffs (I will look further for offensive spells)
Harrim is full retarded cleric (I will dump him after this quest) <-- Tristian placeholder
Ekun is just Ekun + Devourer of Metal + Multishots

Outflank is like a must for the front-liners. I look forward to add another Team Feat on level 8.

I decided against cross-breeding because I really want to see how the end abilities will work. Octavia is the exception.

With the team above I've steamrolled the Dwarven Ruins on Challenging. Really satisfying. Blood explosions and everything.

Why are you using enlarge on your main tank? If anything you should cast reduce person on them

Tanking is inefficient. While having a tank may be important in some cases, the best way to protect the party is to kill things before they kill you. Enlarge Person does more for relevant damage output than Reduce Person does for survivabilility + nerfs your damage output considerably. I would only use Reduce Person in edge cases, where the extra AC makes or breaks the encounter, and if that situation happens, you've already fucked up, either due to lacking other buffs, or by fighting whatever you're fighting.

 

[ArchAngel]

This party is level 6:
Toro is Two-Handed fighter with Finishing Cleave + Outflank
Valerie is Dazzling Display + Enlarge + Outflank
Amiri is Beast Totem + Lethal Stance + Outflank
Octavia is full caster used mostly for buffs (I will look further for offensive spells)
Harrim is full retarded cleric (I will dump him after this quest) <-- Tristian placeholder
Ekun is just Ekun + Devourer of Metal + Multishots

Outflank is like a must for the front-liners. I look forward to add another Team Feat on level 8.

I decided against cross-breeding because I really want to see how the end abilities will work. Octavia is the exception.

With the team above I've steamrolled the Dwarven Ruins on Challenging. Really satisfying. Blood explosions and everything.

Why are you using enlarge on your main tank? If anything you should cast reduce person on them

Tanking is inefficient. While having a tank may be important in some cases, the best way to protect the party is to kill things before they kill you. Enlarge Person does more for relevant damage output than Reduce Person does for survivabilility + nerfs your damage output considerably. I would only use Reduce Person in edge cases, where the extra AC makes or breaks the encounter, and if that situation happens, you've already fucked up, either due to lacking other buffs, or by fighting whatever you're fighting.

I don't agree. In 6 person party you can dedicate one person to only be a tank. While killing stuff a bit faster might be better it also means your people receive more damage and you need to heal more or rest more.
It also means that once your "dedicated tank" falls people like Amiri and Nok Nok will fall 3x faster and not do what they do best (in your case there is no dedicated tank.

Your logic works better in PnP where enemy has brains of the GM and will stop attacking a tank and go for squishies instead.

 

[Luckmann]

Which skills are the most important ones for out of combat and kingdom use?

Can't seem to find a build which will have everything, like I could easily do with HiPS rogues in the NWNs.

I can say that for the prologue and the first two chapters, I remember no use of Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: World, Stealth, Trickery, or Use Magic Device - in dialogue/CYOA. I'd be surprised if I remember that 100% correctly, but the fact that I don't remember any use says something. I *do* remember at least one use of Knowledge: Religion, but it seemed meaningless.

Perception is king, not in dialogues or CYOA's, but in general, as an ongoing passive that can't be replicated; explore the border of every map, every stone tile, and every cluster of trees. there's hidden stuff on every map. In CYOA's and world interactables, Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*, and Knowledge: Nature also seems to come up a lot in the CYOA's, especially the wilderness ones, as would be expected. Persuasion unsurprisingly features relatively often in dialogues, but I can't for the life of me remember it really mattering, but there are definitely times where it makes things easier/quests shorter.

Again, far from the entire game, and things may change later, but hoepfully iy gives you some idea.

All checks matter in all situations because successful checks award XP

Fair point, but I was trying to rank or illustrate relative importance. All are prkbably useful one way or another. I can't remember a single Use Magic Device interaction or test, though, aside from the obvious (non-xp-granting) use of wands and scrolls.

Fun fact: There are tons of area-interactables for Mobility and Athletics that takes the party to another part of the area, and simply going back the same way awards XP a second time because it's a "new" interaction, even if you have no reason to go back "the same way". So whenever you can, after an interactable check like that, immediately go back the same way, collect extra XP, and then continue on.

This party is level 6:

Toro is Two-Handed fighter with Finishing Cleave + Outflank

Valerie is Dazzling Display + Enlarge + Outflank

Amiri is Beast Totem + Lethal Stance + Outflank

Octavia is full caster used mostly for buffs (I will look further for offensive spells)

Harrim is full retarded cleric (I will dump him after this quest) <-- Tristian placeholder

Ekun is just Ekun + Devourer of Metal + Multishots


Outflank is like a must for the front-liners. I look forward to add another Team Feat on level 8.


I decided against cross-breeding because I really want to see how the end abilities will work. Octavia is the exception.


With the team above I've steamrolled the Dwarven Ruins on Challenging. Really satisfying. Blood explosions and everything.

Why are you using enlarge on your main tank? If anything you should cast reduce person on them

Tanking is inefficient. While having a tank may be important in some cases, the best way to protect the party is to kill things before they kill you. Enlarge Person does more for relevant damage output than Reduce Person does for survivabilility + nerfs your damage output considerably. I would only use Reduce Person in edge cases, where the extra AC makes or breaks the encounter, and if that situation happens, you've already fucked up, either due to lacking other buffs, or by fighting whatever you're fighting.

I don't agree. In 6 person party you can dedicate one person to only be a tank. While killing stuff a bit faster might be better it also means your people receive more damage and you need to heal more or rest more.

It also means that once your "dedicated tank" falls people like Amiri and Nok Nok will fall 3x faster and not do what they do best (in your case there is no dedicated tank.


Your logic works better in PnP where enemy has brains of the GM and will stop attacking a tank and go for squishies instead.

I never said you should not have a dedicated tank. You should, in this game. My point is that in most circumstances, Reduce Person is a poor investment compared to Enlarge Person, for the reasons stated. If your main tank *does* need Reduce Person, you should absolutely use it, but that also means that you've probably fucked something up. 9 times out of 10, I would use Enlarge Person instead of Reduce Person, and we have to go through *a lot* of other buffs before we're on the level where I'd feel compelled to switch that around.

As for people receiving more damage - dead men do no damage. You should absolutely have a tank, but the most efficient way to avoid damage is still to murder the opposition before they have a chance to hurt the party.

Nevermind that Enlarge allows your tank to remain more static, since it'll have Reach. It also makes it easier for enemies to cluster around the tank.

 

[Yosharian]

Which skills are the most important ones for out of combat and kingdom use?

Can't seem to find a build which will have everything, like I could easily do with HiPS rogues in the NWNs.

I can say that for the prologue and the first two chapters, I remember no use of Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: World, Stealth, Trickery, or Use Magic Device - in dialogue/CYOA. I'd be surprised if I remember that 100% correctly, but the fact that I don't remember any use says something. I *do* remember at least one use of Knowledge: Religion, but it seemed meaningless.

Perception is king, not in dialogues or CYOA's, but in general, as an ongoing passive that can't be replicated; explore the border of every map, every stone tile, and every cluster of trees. there's hidden stuff on every map. In CYOA's and world interactables, Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*, and Knowledge: Nature also seems to come up a lot in the CYOA's, especially the wilderness ones, as would be expected. Persuasion unsurprisingly features relatively often in dialogues, but I can't for the life of me remember it really mattering, but there are definitely times where it makes things easier/quests shorter.

Again, far from the entire game, and things may change later, but hoepfully it gives you some idea.

Edit: Also, if you want to have as many skills as possible, all you need to do is run something like a high-intelligence Rogue X/Sorcerer 1, and you should be able to get most. Not saying that is a good combo, but in PF, only one of your classes needs to have a class skill in order for it to count as a class skill forever, giving you +3 if you place even a single point in it. Rogue + Sorcerer 1 with an appropriate bloodline should cover pretty much all skills except maybe.. Athletics?

"Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*"

In what way? Is the whole party tested on it, or is it just that at least one person needs to be an expert in it? And does that person have to be the main character?

 

[Parabalus]

Which skills are the most important ones for out of combat and kingdom use?

Can't seem to find a build which will have everything, like I could easily do with HiPS rogues in the NWNs.

I can say that for the prologue and the first two chapters, I remember no use of Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: World, Stealth, Trickery, or Use Magic Device - in dialogue/CYOA. I'd be surprised if I remember that 100% correctly, but the fact that I don't remember any use says something. I *do* remember at least one use of Knowledge: Religion, but it seemed meaningless.

Perception is king, not in dialogues or CYOA's, but in general, as an ongoing passive that can't be replicated; explore the border of every map, every stone tile, and every cluster of trees. there's hidden stuff on every map. In CYOA's and world interactables, Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*, and Knowledge: Nature also seems to come up a lot in the CYOA's, especially the wilderness ones, as would be expected. Persuasion unsurprisingly features relatively often in dialogues, but I can't for the life of me remember it really mattering, but there are definitely times where it makes things easier/quests shorter.

Again, far from the entire game, and things may change later, but hoepfully it gives you some idea.

Edit: Also, if you want to have as many skills as possible, all you need to do is run something like a high-intelligence Rogue X/Sorcerer 1, and you should be able to get most. Not saying that is a good combo, but in PF, only one of your classes needs to have a class skill in order for it to count as a class skill forever, giving you +3 if you place even a single point in it. Rogue + Sorcerer 1 with an appropriate bloodline should cover pretty much all skills except maybe.. Athletics?

"Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*"

In what way? Is the whole party tested on it, or is it just that at least one person needs to be an expert in it? And does that person have to be the main character?

This is also what I'd like to know, which skills are the best to outsource to party members and which to have on PC?

 

[Shadenuat]

In what way? Is the whole party tested on it, or is it just that at least one person needs to be an expert in it? And does that person have to be the main character?

One person needs to be expert on it, same for text quests where you can choose a guy.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I can say that for the prologue and the first two chapters, I remember no use of Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: World, Stealth, Trickery, or Use Magic Device - in dialogue/CYOA. I'd be surprised if I remember that 100% correctly, but the fact that I don't remember any use says something. I *do* remember at least one use of Knowledge: Religion, but it seemed meaningless.

I've seen everything in dialogues/cyoas except UMD. Then again none of my chars have high UMD so far, and some checks dialogue lines only appear when you successfully made the check like a lot of Religion/World checks.

 

[Shadenuat]

UMD is the funny one - it is totally broken by game difficulty because everything for UMD inflates into lol territory

For example, on Unfair using Wand of Magic Missiles in prologue requires DC23+ UMD check (basically Linzi can do it on 17+ roll only).

Lower difficulty to Normal or something and it is only DC13-15 or so.

That is also why you might find it so hard to dispel curses with potions/scrolls or remove Cloak of Lost Souls from yourself which becomes 35 DC disenchant instead of 25 DC.