Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Parabalus]

How important is Charisma for the Kingdom part?

 

[Luckmann]

Which skills are the most important ones for out of combat and kingdom use?

Can't seem to find a build which will have everything, like I could easily do with HiPS rogues in the NWNs.

I can say that for the prologue and the first two chapters, I remember no use of Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: World, Stealth, Trickery, or Use Magic Device - in dialogue/CYOA. I'd be surprised if I remember that 100% correctly, but the fact that I don't remember any use says something. I *do* remember at least one use of Knowledge: Religion, but it seemed meaningless.

Perception is king, not in dialogues or CYOA's, but in general, as an ongoing passive that can't be replicated; explore the border of every map, every stone tile, and every cluster of trees. there's hidden stuff on every map. In CYOA's and world interactables, Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*, and Knowledge: Nature also seems to come up a lot in the CYOA's, especially the wilderness ones, as would be expected. Persuasion unsurprisingly features relatively often in dialogues, but I can't for the life of me remember it really mattering, but there are definitely times where it makes things easier/quests shorter.

Again, far from the entire game, and things may change later, but hoepfully it gives you some idea.

Edit: Also, if you want to have as many skills as possible, all you need to do is run something like a high-intelligence Rogue X/Sorcerer 1, and you should be able to get most. Not saying that is a good combo, but in PF, only one of your classes needs to have a class skill in order for it to count as a class skill forever, giving you +3 if you place even a single point in it. Rogue + Sorcerer 1 with an appropriate bloodline should cover pretty much all skills except maybe.. Athletics?

"Athletics and Mobility feature *a lot*"

In what way? Is the whole party tested on it, or is it just that at least one person needs to be an expert in it? And does that person have to be the main character?

This is also what I'd like to know, which skills are the best to outsource to party members and which to have on PC?

I'm actually not sure who is tested. They feature a lot in area-interactables and in CYOA's, but I think that in interactables, the one who interacts (or the one that has the highest) is tested. In CYOA's, it's usually (always?) the one with the highest score, or someone chosen by you, it seems.

So in terms of outsourcing, I *think* they can easily be covered by other party members. I don't remember any dialogue checks with either of those two, either.

How important is Charisma for the Kingdom part?

I recall zero Ability Score-dependent checks. It's arguably more important for the CNPC's than it is for you. Of course, Charisma influences your Persuasion and such, which matters especially at lower levels when +2 to +5 may make up 20-50% of your entire Persuasion skill (depending on level).

If the question is rephrased as "Do I need high Charisma to have a truly successful Barony", the answer is definitely no.

 

[Shadenuat]

Stats are only important for your advisors.

Your choices are mostly Alignment based. But sometimes you also need to pass Persuasion. However, these checks are hard coded and are not very high, unless it is something crazy like that (Bluff) I am Chosen of God part in Act IV.

You can still pass them by using 0 level cantrip + heroism + Linzi playing etc.

 

[Jarpie]

Does UMD in this game let you wear class or alignment restricted equipment or just use wands and scrolls?

 

[Parabalus]

Stats are only important for your advisors.

Your choices are mostly Alignment based. But sometimes you also need to pass Persuasion. However, these checks are hard coded and are not very high, unless it is something crazy like that (Bluff) I am Chosen of God part in Act IV.

You can still pass them by using 0 level cantrip + heroism + Linzi playing etc.

Can you reliably savescum them?

 

[Shadenuat]

Only wands/scrolls I believe.

 

[Shadenuat]

Stats are only important for your advisors.

Your choices are mostly Alignment based. But sometimes you also need to pass Persuasion. However, these checks are hard coded and are not very high, unless it is something crazy like that (Bluff) I am Chosen of God part in Act IV.

You can still pass them by using 0 level cantrip + heroism + Linzi playing etc.

Can you reliably savescum them?

Some are too high to savescum. Like, one I gave example is DC40 (although it lowers through other checks... but then you need to pass these checks too so gg).

 

[Parabalus]

Only wands/scrolls I believe.

That makes UMD useless, no?

If it's just wand/scrolls, in a party game, and not equipment like in NWNs, AND it doesn't have much interaction use (per previous posters), why ever take it?

Very valuable information.

 

[ArchAngel]

Trickery is useful on your character because in some areas you are solo and there are always locked chests :D
Also Perception for the same reason.

 

[Shadenuat]

That makes UMD useless, no?

Well characters who can invest into UMD have enough skill points to do so without compromising anything about their build. There are wands in the game by the dozen, including useful ones like Mass Hope or Lead Blades, and scrolls so many you can just shoot Fireballs out your ass all day every day and keep party perma-Hasted just on scrolls alone.

 

[ArchAngel]

Only wands/scrolls I believe.

That makes UMD useless, no?

If it's just wand/scrolls, in a party game, and not equipment like in NWNs, AND it doesn't have much interaction use (per previous posters), why ever take it?

Very valuable information.

Because your Cleric might have just died and you want to use Raise Dead scroll with someone else. Or your Mage is feared and you really want that Haste spell from a scroll. And so on.

 

[Parabalus]

Stats are only important for your advisors.

What does this mean?

I didn't get to C2 and will reroll probably, so dunno about the kingdom stuff.

Can I safely dumpstat CHA on PC then? And take skill focus+other feats to shore up persuasion.

 

[ArchAngel]

Stats are only important for your advisors.

What does this mean?

I didn't get to C2 and will reroll probably, so dunno about the kingdom stuff.

Can I safely dumpstat CHA on PC then? And take skill focus+other feats to shore up persuasion.

Each adviser position uses one of the stats of its chosen adviser. You want to raise that stat and give them items that will buff it even further. Like I put Valerie as Regent and Charisma is the stat for that position. At lvl 8 I raised it to 16 so she is better at that and gave her a +2 cha headband.

 

[Shadenuat]

I have 14 CHA on my Wizard lady, no Skill Focus, and using items and healthy amount of save scumming I passed all Persuasion checks so far, important ones anyway.

 

[Parabalus]

That makes UMD useless, no?

Well characters who can invest into UMD have enough skill points to do so without compromising anything about their build. There are wands in the game by the dozen, including useful ones like Mass Hope or Lead Blades, and scrolls so many you can just shoot Fireballs out your ass all day every day.

Well I made a rogue with 16 INT and didn't get everything, this means I can put UMD into something else freely, probably Athletics.

Only wands/scrolls I believe.

That makes UMD useless, no?

If it's just wand/scrolls, in a party game, and not equipment like in NWNs, AND it doesn't have much interaction use (per previous posters), why ever take it?

Very valuable information.

Because your Cleric might have just died and you want to use Raise Dead scroll with someone else. Or your Mage is feared and you really want that Haste spell from a scroll. And so on.

Makes sense, but spending points into a cucked version of UMD without being able to use stuff like Holy Avengers will leave a bad taste, rather skip it.

Stats are only important for your advisors.

What does this mean?

I didn't get to C2 and will reroll probably, so dunno about the kingdom stuff.

Can I safely dumpstat CHA on PC then? And take skill focus+other feats to shore up persuasion.

Each adviser position uses one of the stats of its chosen adviser. You want to raise that stat and give them items that will buff it even further. Like I put Valerie as Regent and Charisma is the stat for that position. At lvl 8 I raised it to 16 so she is better at that and gave her a +2 cha headband.

So I can dumpstat it on PC, thanks.

 

[Luckmann]

Does UMD in this game let you wear class or alignment restricted equipment or just use wands and scrolls?

Appears to only be wands/scrolls. I might be wrong.

Only wands/scrolls I believe.

That makes UMD useless, no?

If it's just wand/scrolls, in a party game, and not equipment like in NWNs, AND it doesn't have much interaction use (per previous posters), why ever take it?

Very valuable information.

It is not nearly as great as in PnP, where UMD (especially in PF) is highly regarded as a massively powerful skill. However, there are some really nice wands out there. Lead Blades, for example, is a lvl 1 Ranger spell that allows you to effectively increase the size (for determining damage) of equipped melee weapons by 1 size category. This is great, and there's at least 1 wand, and the only way to use it without being a ranger is with UMD. There's also a great wand of Mage Armor early in the game, which would be great for, say, any kind of Monk (or Ecclesitheurge).

And if you're a Magus, there is a Magus Arcana that allows you to use Spellcombat/Spellstrike with wands.

So UMD isn't *useless*, just.. more useless than it should be. The lack of interactables and situations where UMD might be useful is also sad.

 

[Elex]

there is no need of a tank on a team.

What a team need is 2 flankers.

 

[hell bovine]

Which skills are the most important ones for out of combat and kingdom use?

Can't seem to find a build which will have everything, like I could easily do with HiPS rogues in the NWNs.

I can say that for the prologue and the first two chapters, I remember no use of Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: World, Stealth, Trickery, or Use Magic Device - in dialogue/CYOA. I'd be surprised if I remember that 100% correctly, but the fact that I don't remember any use says something. I *do* remember at least one use of Knowledge: Religion, but it seemed meaningless.

Keep in mind that some checks in dialogues are hidden and will only show if you pass the check. (edit: same as with some alignment-dependent dialogue options) One of them is knowledge religion, which comes useful just before the final fight (same result will can be achieved with diplomacy, though). Another one that very useful is a lore: nature check.

 

[ArchAngel]

there is no need of a tank on a team.

What a team need is 2 flankers.

I got both and more:
Jaethal is a primary tank. She took all defensive teamwork and normal feats I could get. Also weapon focus: longsword.
Harrim is a secondary tank/buffer. He stands just behind Jaethal to give her Shield Wall and joins the melee combat to provide flanking for others.
Nok Nok and Amiri wait for enemies to engage Jaethal and Harrim and then go into flank positions to decimate their targets.
Jubilost provides bombs from a far and buffs for himself and the party (used Regongar until recently in this spot but 5 melee has become too much, he often did little or needed too long to buff himself)
My Necro Wizard blasts, summons or debuffs from a far.

 

[toro]

This party is level 6:
Toro is Two-Handed fighter with Finishing Cleave + Outflank
Valerie is Dazzling Display + Enlarge + Outflank
Amiri is Beast Totem + Lethal Stance + Outflank
Octavia is full caster used mostly for buffs (I will look further for offensive spells)
Harrim is full retarded cleric (I will dump him after this quest) <-- Tristian placeholder
Ekun is just Ekun + Devourer of Metal + Multishots

Outflank is like a must for the front-liners. I look forward to add another Team Feat on level 8.

I decided against cross-breeding because I really want to see how the end abilities will work. Octavia is the exception.

With the team above I've steamrolled the Dwarven Ruins on Challenging. Really satisfying. Blood explosions and everything.

Why are you using enlarge on your main tank? If anything you should cast reduce person on them

Tanking is inefficient. While having a tank may be important in some cases, the best way to protect the party is to kill things before they kill you. Enlarge Person does more for relevant damage output than Reduce Person does for survivabilility + nerfs your damage output considerably. I would only use Reduce Person in edge cases, where the extra AC makes or breaks the encounter, and if that situation happens, you've already fucked up, either due to lacking other buffs, or by fighting whatever you're fighting.

I don't agree. In 6 person party you can dedicate one person to only be a tank. While killing stuff a bit faster might be better it also means your people receive more damage and you need to heal more or rest more.
It also means that once your "dedicated tank" falls people like Amiri and Nok Nok will fall 3x faster and not do what they do best (in your case there is no dedicated tank.

Your logic works better in PnP where enemy has brains of the GM and will stop attacking a tank and go for squishies instead.

The discussion is moot considering that when needed you can switch pretty fast from damage dealer to full tank.

I wasted just one feat for that: Outflank ... which actually is very good when Valerie and on fighter are flanking one mob and the another one is charging a spellcaster.

 

[vazha]

RE: UMD,
I remember reading on steam that a guy was using Blessed Path plate being evil with UMD. I remember it being said that the skill check was really high though.

 

[Parabalus]

The most important one is Perception, because that is the one you can't savescum around - because you could never figure you needed it; and because higher game difficultues actually inflate checks.

I can recommend as much as running character with Eyes of the Eagle/+6 Wisdom band + Perception Skill Focus/Jaethal with all that, rest you want later to scout areas for shit you missed or actual world areas for missed locations to enter. It is nice to have +45 Perception already at Armag's tomb lol (Jaethal you best waifu).

How high Perception do you reasonably need? Question of going Rogue vs Knifemaster for the 1/2 level to perception.

Which feats are in the bonus feat pool for e.g. fighters or rangers? Can't seem to find the list, do the icons on the feat icons signify them?

What does Kingdom Management difficulty "Easy, Normal, Hard" do?

 

[Shadenuat]

How high Perception do you reasonably need?

It depends on Difficulty too it's hard to say. You just want a specialist. High Wisdom character with +item for Wisdom and maybe Skill Focus (or racial/class bonuses) would do.

Act IV features, for level 12 characters, 35 DC Perception checks I think.

 

[Shadenuat]

Here is Sneak level 15 content on Hard enemies have:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Also isn't it nice when Evocation spell targets +9 Fortitude instead of +39 Reflex?

Do not be surprised to fail unlocking chests with +40 Trickery later either.

 

[Parabalus]

Here is Sneak level 15 content on Hard enemies have:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Also isn't it nice when Evocation spell targets +9 Fortitude instead of +39 Reflex?

How high Perception do you reasonably need?

It depends on Difficulty too it's hard to say. You just want a specialist. High Wisdom character with +item for Wisdom and maybe Skill Focus (or racial/class bonuses) would do.

Act IV features, for level 12 characters, 35 DC Perception checks I think.

Yeah, I'd def need Trapfinding for the +6 then, just 12 skill +4 Persuasive wouldn't do it, even those are sucky odds.
Can I reliably take the undead inquisitor everywhere for Perception checks? I get for combat, but I don't want to miss out on content.