Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Sykar]

Sykar
An alchemist's bomb spam is superior to fireball: targets touch ac, party friendly, applies status effects or knock enemies prone (force bombs), can throw more than one per round. It's not worth it to try to emulate it with a sorcerer; just take Jubilost along. He will do a far better job.

For a sorcerer, lower levels are best left for disabling spells like stinking cloud and slow, because they will be useful throughout the entire game. Stinking cloud ko's wisps, for example, and you can protect your party with delay poison. Hasting your party while slowing the enemies works wonders on melee groups, of which there are plenty. It's only later in the game that evocation catches up with the ridiculous sirocco, and the reason is the status effect it applies, not the damage. That's because the enemy immunities are one thing (though you can target undead with illusions if you have the undead bloodline), the hp/stat/saving throw bloat is another.

I have no alchemist and I do not want to depend upon one either. Furthermore it is not like having both chucking fire AoE damage is exclusive nor is the spell selection so limited that you cannot have a good variety of spells. I do have Glitterdust and Color Spray at the moment which work great overall. Haste is a staple and since I play part will pick up right away at level 6. I hate Stinking Cloud regardless how good it is, I never used it in any D&D game, just personal preference. I'd rather get Slow and protect my party with resist energy from Wisps.

Found a new and interesting combo which I will test out a little. Tiefling Sorcerer Spitespawn/Infernal bloodline. Would give +1 to enchantment spells and +2 to charm sub-school, though no idea which spell, if any, count as such, in addition to spell focus, gets Hold Person, Crushing Despair and Mind Fog. In addition you get free Scorching Ray, Hellfire Ray, Firebrand, Polar Midnight and as a SLA Hellfire so nice chunk of damage spells/abilties without the need for Spell Focus Evocation. Too bad that first level enchantment spells are complete garbage for Sorcerer and only one exists for level 2 though that one is great.
Protection against Good is a wasted spell though at third level.

As to stat bloat, I play core P&P rules essentially. I do not understand why anyone would want to play anything but core rules but to each their own. Stat bloat is the laziest and most boring kind of difficulty. If higher diffuculty would result in more optimized enemies and better AI I might be interested. Just stupid amounts of HP, +x to saves, AC and to hit is just boring as fuck.

Found some cool Tiefling portraits for anyone wanting to play one here, using the first male one myself:
https://imgur.com/gallery/VAx7vEo

 

[ArchAngel]

As to stat bloat, I play core P&P rules essentially. I do not understand why anyone would want to play anything but core rules but to each their own. Stat bloat is the laziest and most boring kind of difficulty. If higher diffuculty would result in more optimized enemies and better AI I might be interested. Just stupid amounts of HP, +x to saves, AC and to hit is just boring as fuck.

Found some cool Tiefling portraits for anyone wanting to play one here, using the first male one myself:
https://imgur.com/gallery/VAx7vEo

I hope you also play ironman rules because you know P&P is Ironman only. And P&P stats are designed for Ironman play.

 

[hell bovine]

Found a new and interesting combo which I will test out a little. Tiefling Sorcerer Spitespawn/Infernal bloodline. Would give +1 to enchantment spells and +2 to charm sub-school, though no idea which spell, if any, count as such, in addition to spell focus, gets Hold Person, Crushing Despair and Mind Fog.

There are no charm spells in the game, that bloodline is worthless. Hold person etc. are compulsion, that's what the fey bloodline gets. And I was talking about the stat/saving throw bloat that happens towards the end of the game, not the difficulty-based one.

You forgot Icy Prison. Pretty awesome evocation disable spell.

I've used it, but vine trap (from my druid) worked better. edit: The other good one was chains of light, also conjuration.

 

[Sykar]

As to stat bloat, I play core P&P rules essentially. I do not understand why anyone would want to play anything but core rules but to each their own. Stat bloat is the laziest and most boring kind of difficulty. If higher diffuculty would result in more optimized enemies and better AI I might be interested. Just stupid amounts of HP, +x to saves, AC and to hit is just boring as fuck.

Found some cool Tiefling portraits for anyone wanting to play one here, using the first male one myself:
https://imgur.com/gallery/VAx7vEo

I hope you also play ironman rules because you know P&P is Ironman only. And P&P stats are designed for Ironman play.

Now this is just plain nonsense. P&P has a human DM who, if sane, will not just bone you over because you had a bad roll streak unless you played like a moron on top of that. Most will probably even grant you an opportunity to avoid the worst if you at least play it smart. Furthermore there is not nearly as much combat on average, at least in the groups I played in in 20 years. Hell my previous D&D group had sessions where not a single die was rolled or even one round of combat occured, just pure roleplay. Good luck with that in PF:KM.

I find it funny that the main point of my argument was ignored by you. You know the one about stat bloat being the laziest and most retarded way to artificially inflate difficulty without really adding anything, and I also mentioned that I'd be willing to play higher difficulty if it would offer more optimized enemies and better AI instead.
In fact all Hard/Unfair it really does is restricting and constricting builds even more. Want a bit of flavor with a Skill Focus feat? Can't have that! What you want a Monkey familiar? But Mobility is useless! Can't have that! Etc.

 

[Yosharian]

Speaking of arcane tricksters, as I understand it, the devs are on record as saying:

- 2 melee opponents = flanking is working as intended
- 1 sneak attack per ray (rather than 1 per spell) is not working as intended.

Does anyone know if they have weighed in on ranged attacks against flanked opponents getting sneak attack damage? As I understand it, you need the ranged flank feat for that in PnP. Be a shame to roll a ranged sneak attacker if that is going to get fixed.

Really, because I heard the opposite, on a podcast they did IIRC

 

[ArchAngel]

As to stat bloat, I play core P&P rules essentially. I do not understand why anyone would want to play anything but core rules but to each their own. Stat bloat is the laziest and most boring kind of difficulty. If higher diffuculty would result in more optimized enemies and better AI I might be interested. Just stupid amounts of HP, +x to saves, AC and to hit is just boring as fuck.

Found some cool Tiefling portraits for anyone wanting to play one here, using the first male one myself:
https://imgur.com/gallery/VAx7vEo

I hope you also play ironman rules because you know P&P is Ironman only. And P&P stats are designed for Ironman play.

Now this is just plain nonsense. P&P has a human DM who, if sane, will not just bone you over because you had a bad roll streak unless you played like a moron on top of that. Most will probably even grant you an opportunity to avoid the worst if you at least play it smart. Furthermore there is not nearly as much combat on average, at least in the groups I played in in 20 years. Hell my previous D&D group had sessions where not a single die was rolled or even one round of combat occured, just pure roleplay. Good luck with that in PF:KM.

I find it funny that the main point of my argument was ignored by you. You know the one about stat bloat being the laziest and most retarded way to artificially inflate difficulty without really adding anything, and I also mentioned that I'd be willing to play higher difficulty if it would offer more optimized enemies and better AI instead.
In fact all Hard/Unfair it really does is restricting and constricting builds even more. Want a bit of flavor with a Skill Focus feat? Can't have that! What you want a Monkey familiar? But Mobility is useless! Can't have that! Etc.

That same DM can also buffs up enemies on the fly and uses much more advanced AI (human one) vs players. Your "argument" can go both ways, it is why I didn't bring a DM into it in the first place.

The fact still remains that base P&P stats of monsters are designed to give players some challenge without killing them on average. Why? because P&P is designed without ability to load a save.

Sessions without combat also don't matter, once combat happens DM guide and Monster Manual have clear guides on how to set up challenging encounter on average for a normal party of adventurers. Those guides are again designed around Ironman nature of P&P. No loads, no repeats.

So if you still don't understand why you claiming it is bad to play a computer RPG on anything above P&P stats is stupid, may I suggest you go to see a doctor because you got a nasty case of retardation.

 

[rashiakas]

Now this is just plain nonsense. P&P has a human DM who, if sane, will not just bone you over because you had a bad roll streak unless you played like a moron on top of that. Most will probably even grant you an opportunity to avoid the worst if you at least play it smart. Furthermore there is not nearly as much combat on average, at least in the groups I played in in 20 years. Hell my previous D&D group had sessions where not a single die was rolled or even one round of combat occured, just pure roleplay. Good luck with that in PF:KM.

What a shit way to DM. Why even roll dice if you cheat when your players have bad luck? Thats why I roll my dice open, if I crit, I crit, if a player dies, he dies - else the game becomes boring as fuck.

 

[axedice]

Monster Tactician

• Frontline fighter.
• Summons last much longer.
• Teamwork feats.

Tacticians are weak on the frontline since you (should) focus on summoning feats earlier. Also no heavy armor, thats another feat tax for a class that has to go pure all the way. I'd say a viable melee build is out of the question for tacticians. While you need a melee to have the teamwork feats work, it doesn't have to be the tactician himself so any melee with outflank, precise strikes etc. will do the trick.

One thing that could work is to dump charisma, get 13 int, expertise and trip > use reach weapon to trip along with your wolves. That'll be lots and lots of tripping with the teamwork feat.

I instead dumped int, went with higher charisma and took the persuasion feats. With both of them you have 25+ persuasion midgame, makes running your kingdom a bit easier.

Herald Caller

• Backline healer/support.
• Free summoning feats.
• Can sacrifice other spells to cast summoning spells.

Anything else?

Herald Caller's main issue is not even the feats arriving too late, it is the summons competing with useful spell slots. Herald Caller is not a "summoner" but rather a cleric that's more flexible with summons. That said, the greatest difference between tactician and other summoner variants is time. A tacticians summons are "always" active, teamwork feats are just icing on the cake.

 

[Sykar]

As to stat bloat, I play core P&P rules essentially. I do not understand why anyone would want to play anything but core rules but to each their own. Stat bloat is the laziest and most boring kind of difficulty. If higher diffuculty would result in more optimized enemies and better AI I might be interested. Just stupid amounts of HP, +x to saves, AC and to hit is just boring as fuck.

Found some cool Tiefling portraits for anyone wanting to play one here, using the first male one myself:
https://imgur.com/gallery/VAx7vEo

I hope you also play ironman rules because you know P&P is Ironman only. And P&P stats are designed for Ironman play.

Now this is just plain nonsense. P&P has a human DM who, if sane, will not just bone you over because you had a bad roll streak unless you played like a moron on top of that. Most will probably even grant you an opportunity to avoid the worst if you at least play it smart. Furthermore there is not nearly as much combat on average, at least in the groups I played in in 20 years. Hell my previous D&D group had sessions where not a single die was rolled or even one round of combat occured, just pure roleplay. Good luck with that in PF:KM.

I find it funny that the main point of my argument was ignored by you. You know the one about stat bloat being the laziest and most retarded way to artificially inflate difficulty without really adding anything, and I also mentioned that I'd be willing to play higher difficulty if it would offer more optimized enemies and better AI instead.
In fact all Hard/Unfair it really does is restricting and constricting builds even more. Want a bit of flavor with a Skill Focus feat? Can't have that! What you want a Monkey familiar? But Mobility is useless! Can't have that! Etc.

That same DM can also buffs up enemies on the fly and uses much more advanced AI (human one) vs players. Your "argument" can go both ways, it is why I didn't bring a DM into it in the first place.

The fact still remains that base P&P stats of monsters are designed to give players some challenge without killing them on average. Why? because P&P is designed without ability to load a save.

Sessions without combat also don't matter, once combat happens DM guide and Monster Manual have clear guides on how to set up challenging encounter on average for a normal party of adventurers. Those guides are again designed around Ironman nature of P&P. No loads, no repeats.

So if you still don't understand why you claiming it is bad to play a computer RPG on anything above P&P stats is stupid, may I suggest you go to see a doctor because you got a nasty case of retardation.

Reading comprehension F. Try again.

 

[ArchAngel]

Seriously man, stop being so dense. I am not blind, I just don't bother wasting time on your stupid shit. Go see that doctor, you obviously need one.

 

[Sykar]

Or you could work on your reading comprehension and stop acting like an obnoxious retard.

 

[ArchAngel]

There is no other way to act with deluded PnP fanboys. I got to get down to your level so maybe you have a chance to understand. I guess with you not even that helps.

At least on this forum I can try to explain it to you on your level without mods banning me. Steam is full of same level of retards, nobody can help them with sensitive mods over there.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Monster Tactician

• Frontline fighter.
• Summons last much longer.
• Teamwork feats.

Tacticians are weak on the frontline since you (should) focus on summoning feats earlier. Also no heavy armor, thats another feat tax for a class that has to go pure all the way. I'd say a viable melee build is out of the question for tacticians. While you need a melee to have the teamwork feats work, it doesn't have to be the tactician himself so any melee with outflank, precise strikes etc. will do the trick.

One thing that could work is to dump charisma, get 13 int, expertise and trip > use reach weapon to trip along with your wolves. That'll be lots and lots of tripping with the teamwork feat.

I instead dumped int, went with higher charisma and took the persuasion feats. With both of them you have 25+ persuasion midgame, makes running your kingdom a bit easier.

I'm glad I decided to wait for patch 1.2, thanks. Now I can go with my original plan of picking Abadar as the deity and his nobility domain, as well as focus on the crossbow as my main weapon.

I'm not planning to min-max, I want at the very least a 12 in both intelligence and charisma. I'll decide when the time comes on how to spread the points, but one thing is for certain in that I want to build my character as a leader (hence why I also wanted the nobility domain).

 

[Sharpedge]

Burning Arc vs Acid Arrow vs Molten Orb. Anyone using any of those or just Scorching Ray?

I found burning arc to be more useful than scorching ray early on for disposing of wolves.

 

[Sykar]

There is no other way to act with deluded PnP fanboys. I got to get down to your level so maybe you have a chance to understand. I guess with you not even that helps.

At least on this forum I can try to explain it to you on your level without mods banning me. Steam is full of same level of retards, nobody can help them with sensitive mods over there.

I haven't seen someone as full of shit as you since my last exchange with Lilura.

 

[ArchAngel]

There is no other way to act with deluded PnP fanboys. I got to get down to your level so maybe you have a chance to understand. I guess with you not even that helps.

At least on this forum I can try to explain it to you on your level without mods banning me. Steam is full of same level of retards, nobody can help them with sensitive mods over there.

I haven't seen someone as full of shit as you since my last exchange with Lilura.

Coming from a cuck that has not put one sentence of real arguments in your last 5 posts. Why don't you try using your brain for a change and try to dispute what I said instead of just proving I am right when I am sending your to see a specialist.

 

[Efe]

is this a ploy to get infinitron to split thread again?
your ironman argument is shit because on pnp you can continue when baron/king dies.
dm can intervene on players behalf (get them abducted or improsioned rather than killed) or give them a brand new character (one of upcoming advisors or companion maybe).

also playing ironman on a game known to have a lot of bugs is a level of autism not even codex has seen before. maybe you want to tell us about how your ironman playthrough is going?

 

[Sykar]

There is no other way to act with deluded PnP fanboys. I got to get down to your level so maybe you have a chance to understand. I guess with you not even that helps.

At least on this forum I can try to explain it to you on your level without mods banning me. Steam is full of same level of retards, nobody can help them with sensitive mods over there.

I haven't seen someone as full of shit as you since my last exchange with Lilura.

Coming from a cuck that has not put one sentence of real arguments in your last 5 posts. Why don't you try using your brain for a change and try to dispute what I said instead of just proving I am right when I am sending your to see a specialist.

Keep digging that hole. You seem quite enthusiastic about that crap you were spouting so far despite it being nothing but drivel since you are too stupid to even understand my original argument in the first place. Keep pushing that "butthurt" button while I continue to laugh at your retardation.

is this a ploy to get infinitron to split thread again?
your ironman argument is shit because on pnp you can continue when baron/king dies.
dm can intervene on players behalf (get them abducted or improsioned rather than killed) or give them a brand new character (one of upcoming advisors or companion maybe).

also playing ironman on a game known to have a lot of bugs is a level of autism not even codex has seen before. maybe you want to tell us about how your ironman playthrough is going?

That is not even taking into account that most DMs will allow you to roll a new character so you can continue to participate. At least the handful of DMs I played with always offered that.

 

[Sharpedge]

is this a ploy to get infinitron to split thread again?
your ironman argument is shit because on pnp you can continue when baron/king dies.
dm can intervene on players behalf (get them abducted or improsioned rather than killed) or give them a brand new character (one of upcoming advisors or companion maybe).

also playing ironman on a game known to have a lot of bugs is a level of autism not even codex has seen before. maybe you want to tell us about how your ironman playthrough is going?

Spoiler

It is going fine, thanks. Playing solo since I don't like micromanaging 6 characters. I will admit, getting to level 5 took me 18 tries.

 

[Efe]

this is like posting image of a game box to showcase it.

 

[Sharpedge]

this is like posting image of a game box to showcase it.

Spoiler

This better? You can see what game mode it is at the bottom right where I hit F5.

 

[ArchAngel]

is this a ploy to get infinitron to split thread again?
your ironman argument is shit because on pnp you can continue when baron/king dies.
dm can intervene on players behalf (get them abducted or improsioned rather than killed) or give them a brand new character (one of upcoming advisors or companion maybe).

also playing ironman on a game known to have a lot of bugs is a level of autism not even codex has seen before. maybe you want to tell us about how your ironman playthrough is going?

My ironman run is not going anywhere but my harder than P&P one is going well. You also missed the point.

That retard was saying it is stupid to play on harder than P&P stats ignoring that those stats exist for P&P( Ironman) runs so players don't die all the time.
Computer games where you load a game every time something goes wrong are way too easy to play on P&P difficulty setting.
In PnP you can make another character yet but you don't continue. Your next character does and that one needs to now fit into whatever situation you were in (and earn a position of power again). Not even near to loading a save and continuing where you died like nothing happened. Not to mention people savescum skill checks, results of decisions and other stuff.

As for DM intervening, that has nothing do with basic design of difficulty. D&D P&P is certainly not designed around DM saving players, it is designed around rules as written. All the DM rule changing and helping players is something that game designers cannot predict so they cannot design the game around that. Module designers can count a bit on that but cannot be sure (even if modules have parts where they ask DMs to "help").

The fact stands that monster and encounters are designed around players not dying as long as challenge rating is around party level. In a cRPG P&P stats just mean a weaker and easier game, nothing else.

Retards like Sykar are just like all the other Steam users that want their "true" PnP experience in a completely different medium without understanding anything about it.

 

[ArchAngel]

And just so you don't think I hate P&P, I have been a DM and a player of various D&D and other game systems for over 20 years. I played and ran the games with many different players. From very little combat to hardcore combat. From players and DM helping each other to parties where everyone was enemy of everyone else. With D&D most of the times both DM and players expected to be left to the luck of the dice, other game system had more often players and GMs that prefered a more roleplaying approach.

But none of that changes how the base game is designed and balanced. It is balanced for an invisible DM that does not do anything but run things by the rules. And such a DM also runs this cRPG. Except in this version players can overrule any happenings with a push of a button called Load a save.

I hope now that I explained it like you are 9 year olds you finally understand basic logic.

 

[Raghar]

Burning Arc vs Acid Arrow vs Molten Orb. Anyone using any of those or just Scorching Ray?

Isn't scorching ray you need to aim to hit it? And burning arc is always hit? In pathfinder where some enemies have 40 AC, always hit beats scorching ray.

 

[hell bovine]

this is like posting image of a game box to showcase it.

Spoiler

This better? You can see what game mode it is at the bottom right where I hit F5.

Is that a druid? Which archetype (if any)?