Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[ArchAngel]

Burning Arc vs Acid Arrow vs Molten Orb. Anyone using any of those or just Scorching Ray?

Isn't scorching ray you need to aim to hit it? And burning arc is always hit? In pathfinder where some enemies have 40 AC, always hit beats scorching ray.

You can sneak attack with Scorching Ray. You can critical hit with Scorching Ray. Burning Arc is reflex save for half damage and Evasion lets you Reflex save for 0 damage.
In addition Scorching Ray is a touch attack, 90% of enemies have terrible Touch AC and you almost always hit them. I actually missed more Scorching Rays because of concealment than enemy AC (but luckily at lvl 5 you get a spell Echolocation that lasts 10 min per level and removes all concealment from enemies for character under that spell).

 

[Efe]

your point was pnp = ironman.
living with consequences of your choices, both in combat and story, is not same as a game over screen which is what ironman is. you can do that while taking frequent saves.

as a reminder, his words:

As to stat bloat, I play core P&P rules essentially. I do not understand why anyone would want to play anything but core rules but to each their own

then you say

I hope you also play ironman rules because you know P&P is Ironman only. And P&P stats are designed for Ironman play.

he wasnt even against a difficult game, but rather wanted it in smarter ai, enemies optimized according to pnp rules and such rather than stat bloated wolves and shit.

Sharpedge i hope you dont get a game breaking bug

 

[Sharpedge]

this is like posting image of a game box to showcase it.

Spoiler

This better? You can see what game mode it is at the bottom right where I hit F5.

Is that a druid? Which archetype (if any)?

It is a Defender of the True World druid. I am playing it because it is the only archetype of spellcaster I have not played with yet.

your point was pnp = ironman.
living with consequences of your choices, both in combat and story, is not same as a game over screen which is what ironman is. you can do that while taking frequent saves.

as a reminder, his words:

As to stat bloat, I play core P&P rules essentially. I do not understand why anyone would want to play anything but core rules but to each their own

then you say

I hope you also play ironman rules because you know P&P is Ironman only. And P&P stats are designed for Ironman play.

he wasnt even against a difficult game, but rather wanted it in smarter ai, enemies optimized according to pnp rules and such rather than stat bloated wolves and shit.

Sharpedge i hope you dont get a game breaking bug

Thanks, I hope I do not either. Although in terms of "game breaking bugs" I have found the game to be quite stable during my last 2 playthroughs, so I think I will be ok.

 

[Sykar]

Burning Arc vs Acid Arrow vs Molten Orb. Anyone using any of those or just Scorching Ray?

Isn't scorching ray you need to aim to hit it? And burning arc is always hit? In pathfinder where some enemies have 40 AC, always hit beats scorching ray.

Not quite. Technically Burning Arc is always a hit but it does allow a reflex save. Some enemies have really high reflex saves which make it unlikely to do more than 10d6 damage but 5d6 for the primary target instead. Then there are several classes with Evasion which avoid all damage on a save and then there is Improved Evasion on some classes where they always reduce the damage by 50%.
Scorching Ray is not a normal attack. It is a ranged touch attack which means it ignores most armor bonus. Hitting touch AC is usually very easy even for low BAB classes like the wizard and sorcerer especially if you have a little dexterity.

 

[ArchAngel]

your point was pnp = ironman.
living with consequences of your choices, both in combat and story, is not same as a game over screen which is what ironman is. you can do that while taking frequent saves.

as a reminder, his words:

As to stat bloat, I play core P&P rules essentially. I do not understand why anyone would want to play anything but core rules but to each their own

then you say

I hope you also play ironman rules because you know P&P is Ironman only. And P&P stats are designed for Ironman play.

he wasnt even against a difficult game, but rather wanted it in smarter ai, enemies optimized according to pnp rules and such rather than stat bloated wolves and shit.

Sharpedge i hope you dont get a game breaking bug

What is so confusing? He likes an easy game. I told him if he still likes easy game he should at least play Ironman like P&P. Are you people going to go full retard and claim P&P is not ironman? Ironman just means you cannot load a save and must always live with what happens no matter how much you don't like it.

Stat bloat is part of how difficulty is managed in PnP, it is normal way to make D&D/Pathfinder harder. Yea making things harder by giving enemies better AI is one way to do it, but DnD since forever was also balanced by adding new enemies, giving new abilities to existing enemies, buffing their stats or any combination of the above. And this is how this game is balanced and it is valid.

He obviously has no idea what he is talking about (or maybe he was never a DM/GM). Just stop arguing people if you don't really know how PnP works...

 

[Sharpedge]

With the exception of act 1 and act 7, raising the difficulty isn't really noticeable at all. For most of the game, if you are the type of player who buffs by default at the start of each zone and then rests at the end of each map, you should have plenty of tools to deal with each fight. I would say that is the *1* thing pillars of eternity does better with regards to difficulty, by adding different types of enemies as the difficulty increases so you actually need to adjust your tactics a bit. It is too bad the baseline difficulty of the game is so unbelievably low and the encounter design so poor that the adding of new monsters to spice it up doesn't really save it. In pathfinder though, if they adopted the, "new monsters, new ai abilities" tactic for difficulty I feel it could really work.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Wolfe]

How would one go about building a STR based Eldritch Knight that uses two handed weapons?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

How would one go about building a STR based Eldritch Knight that uses two handed weapons?

Like all EK builds a late bloomer I guess, but I would do Sorcerer 6(draconic bloodline)->4lvl of Dragon Disciple (+4STR, 2+AC medium BAB, 3/4 caster level)->EK10,
however you could also take CHA magus instead of EK which would have the advantage of progressing the draconic BL but you won't get high level spells (of course you won't need sorc levels then)

 

[ArchAngel]

How would one go about building a STR based Eldritch Knight that uses two handed weapons?

Like all EK builds a late bloomer I guess, but I would do Sorcerer 6(draconic bloodline)->4lvl of Dragon Disciple (+4STR, 2+AC medium BAB, 3/4 caster level)->EK10,
however you could also take CHA magus instead of EK which would have the advantage of progressing the draconic BL but you won't get high level spells (of course you won't need sorc levels then)

Cha magus would give him more BAB and ability to cast spells in light armor.

 

[Haplo]

Also ability to improve AB further via Arcane Pool enchancements. Early access to +5 and later even stuff like Bane and Briliant Energy (ignore enemy armor & shields).

 

[Seari]

if i go 1 thug / x archeologist, can archeologist pick crippling strike once get access to advanced talents?
If not, can I pick it if I add more thug lvls after archeologist unlocks advanced talents or it doesnt work this way?

Additionally, whats brutal beating DC? Or there isnt one? After all I'm doing max cha orcress, intimidating archeologist. Im trying to pick best number of thug lvls. I still consider this char to be enchantment caster so each lvl is big trade of. 1 thug is no brainer as it enables the build with insanely strong dazzling performance spawning attacks of opportunity.
Before anyone pitches in, I know that technically inquisitor can have higher intimidate but I dislike divine classes.

I'm not sure brutal beating even works, I think it's bugged. Dazzling Display is kind of underwhelming without Shatter Defenses, and is a fear with a shitty DC really worth sacrificing caster progression for? Lingering performance doesn't work with Archeologist's Luck, so that makes the class kinda shit imo.
You're better off going vivi 1/sorc/arcane trickster and taking accomplished sneak attacker. You get dex buff from vivi for touch attacks.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Lingering Performance does not work with Archeologist's Luck in the game? Because it should work.

 

[Seari]

I don't think so, maybe they fixed it in 1.2

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Seari]

I meant that for the sorcerer character. Dazzling display => shatter defenses is good on melee chars, I use it myself on my thug 4/scaled fist 1/aldori defender 8/duelist 7.

For archeologist classes you could consider are 4 dragon disciple for STR, 1 thug if STR 4 if DEX, 3 or 7 two handed fighter, 2 paladin.

 

[Yosharian]

How would one go about building a STR based Eldritch Knight that uses two handed weapons?

Go for Magus instead. Eventually you get casting Heavy Armor, for free. If you go Scion, you can take a Bloodline and use Charisma as your casting stat. Angelkin Aasimar get Str/Cha bonus, and you get access to the Wings feat.

I recommend the Arcane Bloodline.

 

[Wolfe]

I thought Magus is supposed to use one handers, something about touch attacks. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the system as this is my first time. Anyway, there's a Magus companion so I wanted to try something else.

I started as a human Fighter, 16/14/16/14/10/10, thinking of taking 5 levels of Wizard and then 10 of EK. What I'm aiming for is being able to buff myself in combat in order to increase "tankiness"/survivability and damage output, so Abjuration seems like the best fitting school for that. It's a shame that it seems I need to pick two feats in order to reduce spell failure chance when casting in armor, since Magus gets that for free.

 

[Cael]

I thought Magus is supposed to use one handers, something about touch attacks. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the system as this is my first time. Anyway, there's a Magus companion so I wanted to try something else.

I started as a human Fighter, 16/14/16/14/10/10, thinking of taking 5 levels of Wizard and then 10 of EK. What I'm aiming for is being able to buff myself in combat in order to increase "tankiness"/survivability and damage output, so Abjuration seems like the best fitting school for that. It's a shame that it seems I need to pick two feats in order to reduce spell failure chance when casting in armor, since Magus gets that for free.

Mage Armour or Greater Mage Armour should obliviate that need on top of allowing you full Dex bonus, which is likely to push you past the AC that you will get from full plate.

 

[ArchAngel]

I thought Magus is supposed to use one handers, something about touch attacks. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the system as this is my first time. Anyway, there's a Magus companion so I wanted to try something else.

I started as a human Fighter, 16/14/16/14/10/10, thinking of taking 5 levels of Wizard and then 10 of EK. What I'm aiming for is being able to buff myself in combat in order to increase "tankiness"/survivability and damage output, so Abjuration seems like the best fitting school for that. It's a shame that it seems I need to pick two feats in order to reduce spell failure chance when casting in armor, since Magus gets that for free.

No need to take levels of fighter, you just take martial weapons feat.
Another option is bard 7/EK 10.
Use Falchion as it has best base crit and when you reach lvl 10 EK you have 25% chance per attack to crit your enemies and get a free quicken spell use.
Bard does not have lots of spells or many offensive spells but it can still be useful (you can heal yourself with each free quicken).
Bard also gives you ability to cast in light armor, lots of skill points and bard song lvl 2 which is a free bonus. And it has better bab and life than a wizard.
And you can take Dragon Disciple levels if you manage to reach lvl 18 or more.
Take STR/Cha aasimar and pick up wings at lvl 11, free +3 to melee AC is very cool

 

[Yosharian]

I thought Magus is supposed to use one handers, something about touch attacks. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the system as this is my first time. Anyway, there's a Magus companion so I wanted to try something else.

I started as a human Fighter, 16/14/16/14/10/10, thinking of taking 5 levels of Wizard and then 10 of EK. What I'm aiming for is being able to buff myself in combat in order to increase "tankiness"/survivability and damage output, so Abjuration seems like the best fitting school for that. It's a shame that it seems I need to pick two feats in order to reduce spell failure chance when casting in armor, since Magus gets that for free.

Ugh. Yes, of course. I completely forgot about Magus needing an off-hand free. My bad.

I'll have another look at it later. EK is indeed probably the best route.

 

[Sharpedge]

How would one go about building a STR based Eldritch Knight that uses two handed weapons?

I recommend doing a dex based Eldritch Knight, with the end goal of 6 Sylvan Sorc, 1 Monk, 10 Eldritch Knight and then dual wielding 2 light weapons. If you want to really take advantage of the Eldritch Knight level 10 ability, you need to hit often.

 

[Wolfe]

I recommend doing a dex based Eldritch Knight, with the end goal of 6 Sylvan Sorc, 1 Monk, 10 Eldritch Knight and then dual wielding 2 light weapons. If you want to really take advantage of the Eldritch Knight level 10 ability, you need to hit often.

That's very solid advice but dual wielding doesn't fit my vision of the character from a roleplaying perspective.

 

[Haplo]

I thought Magus is supposed to use one handers, something about touch attacks. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the system as this is my first time. Anyway, there's a Magus companion so I wanted to try something else.

I think he should. But plenty people seem to play differently and make it work. You can pre-buff before combat. Your special weapon enchantments will work with two-handers. As will Arcane Strike damage bonus. You will be loosing the extra Spellstrike attack per round (at -2 to all attacks) and the flexibility to cast and full-attack in the same round. But you'll add 1,5x Str bonus to damage (and Power Attack, if you're so inclined). You can even fight under Transformation for full BAB later on. Also you'll massively benefit from the Legendary Proportions buff.
Best solution could be to pick a strong one-hander and just two-hand it most of the time, enabling Spell-Combat (going one-handed) when you want to cast & fight or use Spellstrike to deliver melee touch attacks.