Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

I thought Magus is supposed to use one handers, something about touch attacks. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the system as this is my first time. Anyway, there's a Magus companion so I wanted to try something else.

I started as a human Fighter, 16/14/16/14/10/10, thinking of taking 5 levels of Wizard and then 10 of EK. What I'm aiming for is being able to buff myself in combat in order to increase "tankiness"/survivability and damage output, so Abjuration seems like the best fitting school for that. It's a shame that it seems I need to pick two feats in order to reduce spell failure chance when casting in armor, since Magus gets that for free.

Ugh. Yes, of course. I completely forgot about Magus needing an off-hand free. My bad.

I'll have another look at it later. EK is indeed probably the best route.

 

[Sharpedge]

How would one go about building a STR based Eldritch Knight that uses two handed weapons?

I recommend doing a dex based Eldritch Knight, with the end goal of 6 Sylvan Sorc, 1 Monk, 10 Eldritch Knight and then dual wielding 2 light weapons. If you want to really take advantage of the Eldritch Knight level 10 ability, you need to hit often.

 

[Wolfe]

I recommend doing a dex based Eldritch Knight, with the end goal of 6 Sylvan Sorc, 1 Monk, 10 Eldritch Knight and then dual wielding 2 light weapons. If you want to really take advantage of the Eldritch Knight level 10 ability, you need to hit often.

That's very solid advice but dual wielding doesn't fit my vision of the character from a roleplaying perspective.

 

[Haplo]

I thought Magus is supposed to use one handers, something about touch attacks. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the system as this is my first time. Anyway, there's a Magus companion so I wanted to try something else.

I think he should. But plenty people seem to play differently and make it work. You can pre-buff before combat. Your special weapon enchantments will work with two-handers. As will Arcane Strike damage bonus. You will be loosing the extra Spellstrike attack per round (at -2 to all attacks) and the flexibility to cast and full-attack in the same round. But you'll add 1,5x Str bonus to damage (and Power Attack, if you're so inclined). You can even fight under Transformation for full BAB later on. Also you'll massively benefit from the Legendary Proportions buff.
Best solution could be to pick a strong one-hander and just two-hand it most of the time, enabling Spell-Combat (going one-handed) when you want to cast & fight or use Spellstrike to deliver melee touch attacks.

 

[Yosharian]

Ok, I kinda forgot about your request Wolfe, my bad. Anyway:

You want to get at least a +6 Dexterity bonus, or close to it, if you're going to use Light armor, and without taking Magus levels there's no way to get heavier than that. That means at least 14-16 base Dexterity.

How about a Tiefling with the following stat spread:

Tiefling: Str 17, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 19, Wis 7, Cha 5.

That gives you enough Intelligence to cast level 9 spells without an Int item, freeing up all your slots for combat-related items. 17 Str is perfectly fine for a melee character, and 12 Con means you're not too squishy. Your Will save will be pretty bad. With at least a +6 Dexterity item, you'll have 22 Dexterity, which gives you a +6 bonus, perfect for Light armor.

Alternatively, you could go for a Cha-based caster, but I'd only recommend that if you want your character to be persuasive, because it means slower spell progression. For Eldritch Knights I recommend Wizard.

 

[Haplo]

Going for Cha opens the option to go Scaled Fist for Cha to AC, as well as Pal 2 dip for Cha to saves.
You're loosing caster levels, but might still be worth it. You end up more tanky then a full plate character.

 

[Wolfe]

Ok, this is funny. I got up to level 5 (1 Fighter/4 Wizard) and have had Regongar in the party for a while now. I have to say that surprisingly, I enjoy the Magus feel more than my PC's, despite having to use one-handers.

Ideally my character would've fit the following characteristics:
- uses two-handers
- uses heavy armor and is a capable/sturdy frontliner
- can buff itself quite a lot (mostly Abjuration, Enchantment and Transformation spells)

That's just what my mental image of the PC is, at least from a roleplaying perspective. I don't think I can achieve that, something must be sacrificed. Heavy armor requires taking two traits to minimise ASF, and even then it's still somewhere between 5-15%. Magus/ES gets that for free but sacrifices the two-handed weapons. I was also disappointed to realise that Wizards can cast each memorised spell only once, whereas Eldritch Scions have a certain number of spells per level but also the flexibility to cast them in whichever combination. Spontaneous casting? Again, I'm a D&D newb so bear with me.

I might just respec my character into an Eldritch Scion. That would imply high Charisma and Persuasion which I assume could be really useful. I know respeccing is decline but it doesn't strain the credibility of the character's concept too much aside from drawing its magical powers from a different source. So I'm thinking high STR and CHA, medium DEX and CON, will probably need to use scimitars but dueling swords also look good. What about multiclassing? I wouldn't like to take any Paladin levels in order to avoid being locked into Lawful Good, but Lawful only restriction is fine so a dip in Scaled Fist sounds good. What are its benefits? What about Dragon Disciple?

Do things change drastically after level 7 when taking the first level of EK? Perhaps the Wizard leveling bit (2-6) is the worst part and I should just stick with it.

Thanks for the advice, everyone, and sorry for the 180° turn.

 

[ArchAngel]

Heavy Armor and spellcasting and two handers just does not work sorry. Magus has heavy armor and spellcasting but no two handed weapons and also a limited spell selection and access only up to lvl 6 spells.

But you don't need Heavy Armor with EK to get good AC. But if you want a look of that armored guy you will need to pick up feats that reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance. There is that mithril full plate in the game, mithril should also reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance but you are stuck with +1 fullplate.

On the other hand as a melee you don't need feat tax in form of point blank shot and similar so you can invest into feats that Arcane Spell Failure Chance. Especially if you took a human. Just don't take power attack and iron will or blind fighting as you get all those benefits by buffing yourself with spells. Ok power attack might be good when you get access to greater heroism. Focus into Falchion and critical hits.

 

[Yosharian]

Going for Cha opens the option to go Scaled Fist for Cha to AC, as well as Pal 2 dip for Cha to saves.
You're loosing caster levels, but might still be worth it. You end up more tanky then a full plate character.

Yeah but that calls more for a Dex build.

 

[ArchAngel]

What you can do is make a Charisma Monk lvl 1 and Sorcerer lvl 6 and then go into EK. Pick up martial weapon proficiency feat at some point.

 

[Yosharian]

Heavy Armor and spellcasting and two handers just does not work sorry. Magus has heavy armor and spellcasting but no two handed weapons and also a limited spell selection and access only up to lvl 6 spells.

But you don't need Heavy Armor with EK to get good AC. But if you want a look of that armored guy you will need to pick up feats that reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance. There is that mithril full plate in the game, mithril should also reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance but you are stuck with +1 fullplate.

On the other hand as a melee you don't need feat tax in form of point blank shot and similar so you can invest into feats that Arcane Spell Failure Chance. Especially if you took a human. Just don't take power attack and iron will or blind fighting as you get all those benefits by buffing yourself with spells. Ok power attack might be good when you get access to greater heroism. Focus into Falchion and critical hits.

Blind-Fight is still an excellent feat because it gives you immunity to Gaze attacks

 

[ArchAngel]

Heavy Armor and spellcasting and two handers just does not work sorry. Magus has heavy armor and spellcasting but no two handed weapons and also a limited spell selection and access only up to lvl 6 spells.

But you don't need Heavy Armor with EK to get good AC. But if you want a look of that armored guy you will need to pick up feats that reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance. There is that mithril full plate in the game, mithril should also reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance but you are stuck with +1 fullplate.

On the other hand as a melee you don't need feat tax in form of point blank shot and similar so you can invest into feats that Arcane Spell Failure Chance. Especially if you took a human. Just don't take power attack and iron will or blind fighting as you get all those benefits by buffing yourself with spells. Ok power attack might be good when you get access to greater heroism. Focus into Falchion and critical hits.

Blind-Fight is still an excellent feat because it gives you immunity to Gaze attacks

Does it? It didn't help in a fight vs Defaced sisters, their stat draining attack seem like some gaze attack to me.

 

[Yosharian]

Heavy Armor and spellcasting and two handers just does not work sorry. Magus has heavy armor and spellcasting but no two handed weapons and also a limited spell selection and access only up to lvl 6 spells.

But you don't need Heavy Armor with EK to get good AC. But if you want a look of that armored guy you will need to pick up feats that reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance. There is that mithril full plate in the game, mithril should also reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance but you are stuck with +1 fullplate.

On the other hand as a melee you don't need feat tax in form of point blank shot and similar so you can invest into feats that Arcane Spell Failure Chance. Especially if you took a human. Just don't take power attack and iron will or blind fighting as you get all those benefits by buffing yourself with spells. Ok power attack might be good when you get access to greater heroism. Focus into Falchion and critical hits.

Blind-Fight is still an excellent feat because it gives you immunity to Gaze attacks

Does it? It didn't help in a fight vs Defaced sisters, their stat draining attack seem like some gaze attack to me.

Well, ok, let me rephrase: I have been told that it protects against Gaze attacks =p

 

[ArchAngel]

Heavy Armor and spellcasting and two handers just does not work sorry. Magus has heavy armor and spellcasting but no two handed weapons and also a limited spell selection and access only up to lvl 6 spells.

But you don't need Heavy Armor with EK to get good AC. But if you want a look of that armored guy you will need to pick up feats that reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance. There is that mithril full plate in the game, mithril should also reduce Arcane Spell Failure Chance but you are stuck with +1 fullplate.

On the other hand as a melee you don't need feat tax in form of point blank shot and similar so you can invest into feats that Arcane Spell Failure Chance. Especially if you took a human. Just don't take power attack and iron will or blind fighting as you get all those benefits by buffing yourself with spells. Ok power attack might be good when you get access to greater heroism. Focus into Falchion and critical hits.

Blind-Fight is still an excellent feat because it gives you immunity to Gaze attacks

Does it? It didn't help in a fight vs Defaced sisters, their stat draining attack seem like some gaze attack to me.

Well, ok, let me rephrase: I have been told that it protects against Gaze attacks =p

Maybe it helps vs Wild Hunt, in any case that feat can be ignored by a EK character until lvl 15. Echolocation is a lvl 5 spell that makes most illusion defensive abilities pointless. And it lasts 10 min per level. Completely OP spell. Similar in usefulness to Communal Delay Poison.

 

[Haplo]

Ok, this is funny. I got up to level 5 (1 Fighter/4 Wizard) and have had Regongar in the party for a while now. I have to say that surprisingly, I enjoy the Magus feel more than my PC's, despite having to use one-handers.

Ideally my character would've fit the following characteristics:
- uses two-handers
- uses heavy armor and is a capable/sturdy frontliner
- can buff itself quite a lot (mostly Abjuration, Enchantment and Transformation spells)

That's just what my mental image of the PC is, at least from a roleplaying perspective. I don't think I can achieve that, something must be sacrificed. Heavy armor requires taking two traits to minimise ASF, and even then it's still somewhere between 5-15%. Magus/ES gets that for free but sacrifices the two-handed weapons. I was also disappointed to realise that Wizards can cast each memorised spell only once, whereas Eldritch Scions have a certain number of spells per level but also the flexibility to cast them in whichever combination. Spontaneous casting? Again, I'm a D&D newb so bear with me.

I might just respec my character into an Eldritch Scion. That would imply high Charisma and Persuasion which I assume could be really useful. I know respeccing is decline but it doesn't strain the credibility of the character's concept too much aside from drawing its magical powers from a different source. So I'm thinking high STR and CHA, medium DEX and CON, will probably need to use scimitars but dueling swords also look good. What about multiclassing? I wouldn't like to take any Paladin levels in order to avoid being locked into Lawful Good, but Lawful only restriction is fine so a dip in Scaled Fist sounds good. What are its benefits? What about Dragon Disciple?

Do things change drastically after level 7 when taking the first level of EK? Perhaps the Wizard leveling bit (2-6) is the worst part and I should just stick with it.

Thanks for the advice, everyone, and sorry for the 180° turn.

Again, going Magus/ES doesn't really prohibit you from using two-handers - or better yet, using your chosen one-hander in a two-handed stance. If you have a good Strenght score and maybe later even Power Attack, its actually a decent option. You give up the ability to cast & attack in the same round, as well as the extra spellstrike attack - if you're using tough spells, for much higher damage per hit. Your unique magus weapon enchantments will still work fine two-handed, as will the Arcane Strike feat for extra damage.

Even better when you get the Transformation spell.

As for the EK, I don't think things will drastically change when you start taking EK levels. They will improve after EK level 10, when you get to quicken a spell after a melee crit I guess. Before that its a very gradual progress with slowly improving BAB (after tanking it with Wizard) and getting access to better spells, of course.

I'd advise to forget about heavy armor without Magus/Scion.

And yes, ES gets Sorceror-like spontaneous spellcasting, where you can pick spells on-the-fly. Since access to spell scrolls in very limited in P:K and the spell selection is also limited in general, its a very good deal.
But standard Magus is even better for purpose of spell spamming and choosing what is needed on-the-fly: Has (Improved) Spell Recall, which lets him cast all spells he has prepared multiple times per day, Recalling them by spending Arcane Pool points as needed. This could be like extra 15 level 1 or 2 casts per day. A bit less for higher spell levels, but still an impressive number.

 

[Haplo]

Going for Cha opens the option to go Scaled Fist for Cha to AC, as well as Pal 2 dip for Cha to saves.
You're loosing caster levels, but might still be worth it. You end up more tanky then a full plate character.

Yeah but that calls more for a Dex build.

A hybrid approach is possible. Overpowered items, as well as late-game abundance of touch-AC targeting attacks make it viable. If you're a lawful good monk you can use +5 dodge robes. With +8 AC bracers, that's already 13 AC - as much as a +4 fullplate, but with no Dex limit. Items can provide +8 to pretty much all stats, so that's another +4 Dex AC modifier and, in case of monk, also +4 Wis/Cha AC modifier. So that's way above max-enchanted fullplate, even with minimal stat investment. And it actually helps against Touch attacks!

I currently run a Strenght-based Vivisectionist who wears robes and trips enemies with his Fauchard and bites.
Of course mutagen helps, but even without the extra 4-6 Dex and 4-6 Natural Armor (that I don't have yet), it should be somewhat viable. Particularly supported by the Mirror Image uber-buff.

 

[ArchAngel]

Going two handed Dex route is also possible with that Elven Blade for two hands. I don't know if you can find an agile version later in the game so you also get a bonus to damage.

 

[user]

Next playthrough will be an evil undead bl sorcerer with every necro spell, using that cloak for necromancy. With all the DC feats I can get. It's a shame you can't go full lich or install the oculus to your eye though.

 

[Haplo]

Going two handed Dex route is also possible with that Elven Blade for two hands. I don't know if you can find an agile version later in the game so you also get a bonus to damage.

Well, you COULD get 3 rogue levels for Finesse Training. But that's even more caster levels lost.

There certainly are Agile Dueling Swords though - and you can two-hand them. Or Scimitars (maybe fewer Agile versions).

 

[ArchAngel]

Going two handed Dex route is also possible with that Elven Blade for two hands. I don't know if you can find an agile version later in the game so you also get a bonus to damage.

Well, you COULD get 3 rogue levels for Finesse Training. But that's even more caster levels lost.

There certainly are Agile Dueling Swords though - and you can two-hand them. Or Scimitars (maybe fewer Agile versions).

Maybe a Dex based Eldritch Scoundrel is a better choice for this :D
You get Magus type spellcasting but wizard list of spells and access to many rogue abilities.

 

[Wolfe]

Again, going Magus/ES doesn't really prohibit you from using two-handers - or better yet, using your chosen one-hander in a two-handed stance. If you have a good Strenght score and maybe later even Power Attack, its actually a decent option. You give up the ability to cast & attack in the same round, as well as the extra spellstrike attack - if you're using tough spells, for much higher damage per hit. Your unique magus weapon enchantments will still work fine two-handed, as will the Arcane Strike feat for extra damage.

Even better when you get the Transformation spell.

As for the EK, I don't think things will drastically change when you start taking EK levels. They will improve after EK level 10, when you get to quicken a spell after a melee crit I guess. Before that its a very gradual progress with slowly improving BAB (after tanking it with Wizard) and getting access to better spells, of course.

I'd advise to forget about heavy armor without Magus/Scion.

And yes, ES gets Sorceror-like spontaneous spellcasting, where you can pick spells on-the-fly. Since access to spell scrolls in very limited in P:K and the spell selection is also limited in general, its a very good deal.
But standard Magus is even better for purpose of spell spamming and choosing what is needed on-the-fly: Has (Improved) Spell Recall, which lets him cast all spells he has prepared multiple times per day, Recalling them by spending Arcane Pool points as needed. This could be like extra 15 level 1 or 2 casts per day. A bit less for higher spell levels, but still an impressive number.

Ok, but is it worth giving up delivering a Shocking/Frigid/Vampiric Touch (for example) attack alongside a regular weapon attack in the same round? That's what I found to be super fun about Regongar, he would sometimes crit for 80+ at lvl 5, since the crit applies to the spell too.

EK doesn't sound that appealing then, as far as I know the game ends around level 16/17 with a party of 6 so I'm not waiting around for its potential to be unleashed that late. Having access to spells above level 6 is pretty good though.

 

[ArchAngel]

Again, going Magus/ES doesn't really prohibit you from using two-handers - or better yet, using your chosen one-hander in a two-handed stance. If you have a good Strenght score and maybe later even Power Attack, its actually a decent option. You give up the ability to cast & attack in the same round, as well as the extra spellstrike attack - if you're using tough spells, for much higher damage per hit. Your unique magus weapon enchantments will still work fine two-handed, as will the Arcane Strike feat for extra damage.

Even better when you get the Transformation spell.

As for the EK, I don't think things will drastically change when you start taking EK levels. They will improve after EK level 10, when you get to quicken a spell after a melee crit I guess. Before that its a very gradual progress with slowly improving BAB (after tanking it with Wizard) and getting access to better spells, of course.

I'd advise to forget about heavy armor without Magus/Scion.

And yes, ES gets Sorceror-like spontaneous spellcasting, where you can pick spells on-the-fly. Since access to spell scrolls in very limited in P:K and the spell selection is also limited in general, its a very good deal.
But standard Magus is even better for purpose of spell spamming and choosing what is needed on-the-fly: Has (Improved) Spell Recall, which lets him cast all spells he has prepared multiple times per day, Recalling them by spending Arcane Pool points as needed. This could be like extra 15 level 1 or 2 casts per day. A bit less for higher spell levels, but still an impressive number.

Ok, but is it worth giving up delivering a Shocking/Frigid/Vampiric Touch (for example) attack alongside a regular weapon attack in the same round? That's what I found to be super fun about Regongar, he would sometimes crit for 80+ at lvl 5, since the crit applies to the spell too.

EK doesn't sound that appealing then, as far as I know the game ends around level 16/17 with a party of 6 so I'm not waiting around for its potential to be unleashed that late. Having access to spells above level 6 is pretty good though.

Well you wanted a Two Handed hybrid. Since no such class exists directly only other realistic options is Magus. Yes Magus is very good at what ti does, it is just not meant to be played with a Two Handed weapon.

 

[Haplo]

Ok, but is it worth giving up delivering a Shocking/Frigid/Vampiric Touch (for example) attack alongside a regular weapon attack in the same round? That's what I found to be super fun about Regongar, he would sometimes crit for 80+ at lvl 5, since the crit applies to the spell too.

Well you don't actually use damaging touch spells all the time (I mean touch spells other then Touch of Fatigue).
That's why I advised using a medium sized one handed weapon with two hands - and going one handed with Spell Combat when you want to cast (including Spell striking with a touch attack spell). Your weapon will be slightly smaller but you will be able to do both.

 

[Wolfe]

Well you don't actually use damaging touch spells all the time (I mean touch spells other then Touch of Fatigue).
That's why I advised using a medium sized one handed weapon with two hands - and going one handed with Spell Combat when you want to cast (including Spell striking with a touch attack spell). Your weapon will be slightly smaller but you will be able to do both.

I've decided, that's what I will do, it seems to be the best of both worlds despite requiring a bit of micro.

 

[Jaesun]

Just curious if a website like the NWN2 Character Builder exists yet for this game?