Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Efe]

if the fact that you are outnumbered and outleveled against two spell casters, one of which spams summons and other debuffs you like crazy doesnt ring any alarms...
is there any tactics to that fight besides rushing first mage to cause her teleport and then rushing the other mage?

 

[Xeon]

I thought Daidre said even tho there were nerfs, they weren't really? She said it got harder or something in her patch impression post.

Edit:
Daidre's post.

Spoiler

1) I have found 3 new locations. 2 are small, but third one is pretty big and I'd score difficulty even above Ratnook Hill. Now I am a bit paranoid about my perception and wasting all Linzi's feats on it.
2) Some locations are moved or changed places, more difficult encounters now farther from Oleg's post.
3) Spider Lair for Bokken quest got complete redesign. It is five time bigger now and you do not need to fight swarms to get berries. But fights after are even nastier than old version (and berries turn sour on timer so rest is limited) and I see even more potential butthurt in comparison. I suspect some elegant trolling from Owlcat here.
4) Game breaking bug at Stag Lord fort. I hope for a patch or workaround today.

 

[Yosharian]

When is EE out?

 

[santino27]

When is EE out?

June 6, along with the DLC.

 

[Terra]

I have to say I'm impressed with how the game has improved since I finished it earlier this year as well as Owlcat's dedication to improving the game. After I finished the game I wrote down a bunch of notes that I intended to post as a steam review but never got around to editing it and posting it up. Looking back at it now, pretty much every negative I noted down looks due to be addressed in this upcoming patch which certainly bodes well for the game, as well as guaranteeing my interest in whatever their next project is.

Spider Swarm nerfs are decline though.

 

[Cael]

How the fuck did so many people have problems with Technic League and spider swarms? Both seem like perfectly fair encounters to me. I had zero difficulty with Technic League and little with the spiders (although I did have to wait and come back with a full party) on Challenging.

It is easy to run into Technic league at lvl 2 with only 4 characters in party. It is a deadly encounter in that case. Especially if your main character drops first, they don't offer to take someone prisoner then, they just murder everyone.

then go somewhere else and get to level 3, there isn't much XP needed for the first 5 levels

metagaming shouldnt be mandatory..
also its not the difficulty of encounter that sucks.. its the aftermath that either forces you to play most of the remaining chapter with blinded characters or burn majority of your gold

With this game it is, and it was praised because it required metagaming. Fucking millenials, man. They won't know good RPG design if it bit them in the nose.

 

[Vorark]

Does anyone know if Kingmaker is DRM free on Steam (ie you can run it without Steam being installed)? It's currently on sale on GOG but I have more than enough money left in my Steam wallet to pick it up.

 

[ArchAngel]

How the fuck did so many people have problems with Technic League and spider swarms? Both seem like perfectly fair encounters to me. I had zero difficulty with Technic League and little with the spiders (although I did have to wait and come back with a full party) on Challenging.

It is easy to run into Technic league at lvl 2 with only 4 characters in party. It is a deadly encounter in that case. Especially if your main character drops first, they don't offer to take someone prisoner then, they just murder everyone.

then go somewhere else and get to level 3, there isn't much XP needed for the first 5 levels

For average players that like RPGs and are not IE veterans, this is not a real option. This encounter is not a hidden one like the Ratnook Hill. To them this looks like failed design of Act 1.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Does anyone know if Kingmaker is DRM free on Steam (ie you can run it without Steam being installed)? It's currently on sale on GOG but I have more than enough money left in my Steam wallet to pick it up.

A normal game that could be cracked simply using steam_api.dll means it is a game using normal Steam Protection. AFAIK after you run the game online once every patch you could play in offline mode for such games.

 

[Riddler]

if the fact that you are outnumbered and outleveled against two spell casters, one of which spams summons and other debuffs you like crazy doesnt ring any alarms...
is there any tactics to that fight besides rushing first mage to cause her teleport and then rushing the other mage?

Why wouldn't you go for the mages?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

if the fact that you are outnumbered and outleveled against two spell casters, one of which spams summons and other debuffs you like crazy doesnt ring any alarms...
is there any tactics to that fight besides rushing first mage to cause her teleport and then rushing the other mage?

Why wouldn't you go for the mages?

Yeah, later on enemies archer will always go to attack lowest AC characters too (usually Mages/Bard/Cleric). If even the AI do this it become pretty questionable why an actual person won't use this tactic.

And if you went at them with full party after Old Sycamore, even killing the melee mobs first is viable. Just put Valeries upfront, Harrim and Linzi debuffs, have Linzi heals and Harrim start hitting after that + Jaethal and Amiri smashing people. My MC then happens to be monk so I just smash people face as well. Kinda RNG ish and a bit close, needs to use potions and empty up my spells but it is doable.

 

[Sykar]

Spider swarms. This enemy appeared to be a real pain for lots of players. We’ve nerfed them, we’ve added new tips, we gave out extra flasks of alchemical fire... and to no avail. Spider swarms continued to be a major source of frustration, especially during the first playthrough. So we dealt with the problem drastically: we redesigned the fangberry cave. From now on, the pesky spider swarms won’t stand in your way. You’ll be able to either gather the berries and leave in peace, or go to a separate part of the cave to fight the swarms anyway - and get a seperate reward for that.

 

[razvedchiki]

They could spent some time fixing the encounters but i guess the survey showed them that players want flashy new grafiks and dumping down the difficulty for the modern "i dont have time to play games" gamer.

 

[Efe]

if the fact that you are outnumbered and outleveled against two spell casters, one of which spams summons and other debuffs you like crazy doesnt ring any alarms...
is there any tactics to that fight besides rushing first mage to cause her teleport and then rushing the other mage?

Why wouldn't you go for the mages?

you eat aoos from guys you walk past
first round when you should charge you are flat footed and also more likely to get killed
its not a good fight if all it takes is a lucky hit and you go from dead to not a scratch

 

[Xeon]

The Technic league first fight, you don't need to win it, right? you don't get a game over or anything, they just take one companion like they said they would before you fought them so I don't see the problem with that fight.

Second fight isn't hard, the 2 guards on the right don't alert the camp on the left so you can kill them and free the companion and mages and then fight the camp on the left, doesn't seem like a major fight.

 

[Nahel]

The Technic league and the sleeping bandits were fine......They could be won with a difficult fight if you take it fair or relatively easily with a little brain (giving a companion or attacking when asleep). But retards can't deal with a difficult fight they can't win in one try. The wild hunt required some fixing ( too annoying, freedom of movement or die is a shitty concept), the rest was quite fine in difficulty

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The Technic league first fight, you don't need to win it, right? you don't get a game over or anything, they just take one companion like they said they would before you fought them so I don't see the problem with that fight.

Second fight isn't hard, the 2 guards on the right don't alert the camp on the left so you can kill them and free the companion and mages and then fight the camp on the left, doesn't seem like a major fight.

Its been a while but the Technic league fight shows up during the prologue before you even become a baron, right?
IMO the problem is that you already only have a few companions at this point(iirc it depends on your alignment) and losing one could be a huge blow to newer players.
It would make sense to push it back into the first act because you would care a lot more about slavers doing illegal slave shit on your land, and you have a bigger stable of companions to pick from.

 

[Sykar]

They could spent some time fixing the encounters but i guess the survey showed them that players want flashy new grafiks and dumping down the difficulty for the modern "i dont have time to play games" gamer.

Well if that is the worst I can live with it. I can understand some concession to reach a bigger market.

 

[razvedchiki]

Now lets make a guess how the battles in pathfinder 2 will be.
Very few games sustain their difficulty until the end,ie age of decadence is an excellent example how to make encounters and keep the players interest untill the end.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

So long they are using pre-existing system the general high level DnD/Pathfinder syndrome will remains. At that point the player has too much tools at their disposal. At best they could tune the encounter but due to nature of CRPG where resting is limitless it will still be kinda bad.

Instead of fixing the combat in and on itself I think it is better that they improve resource management ala PoE in higher difficulty (you can only bring supplier for 1 or 2 rest per dungeon) and combine it with Swordflight mod in NWN or Vordakai/Varnhold's Lot where crucial dungeons are the one where you can't simply back-track and rest and should instead think on how to use your resources. This will also fix the players ending up with 1000 potions and scrolls at end game because there is no reason to use them if you can just rest willy-nilly.

On scrolls note, they need to have scaling for scrolls. Please make it so that Scrolls of Blessing you found at level 15 be like at least Caster level 10 instead of keeping them at one. Wands as well, this way use Magic Device wouldn't be as useless.

 

[Cael]

So long they are using pre-existing system the general high level DnD/Pathfinder syndrome will remains. At that point the player has too much tools at their disposal. At best they could tune the encounter but due to nature of CRPG where resting is limitless it will still be kinda bad.

Instead of fixing the combat in and on itself I think it is better that they improve resource management ala PoE in higher difficulty (you can only bring supplier for 1 or 2 rest per dungeon) and combine it with Swordflight mod in NWN or Vordakai/Varnhold's Lot where crucial dungeons are the one where you can't simply back-track and rest and should instead think on how to use your resources. This will also fix the players ending up with 1000 potions and scrolls at end game because there is no reason to use them if you can just rest willy-nilly.

On scrolls note, they need to have scaling for scrolls. Please make it so that Scrolls of Blessing you found at level 15 be like at least Caster level 10 instead of keeping them at one. Wands as well, this way use Magic Device wouldn't be as useless.

Considering that Owlcat made it so that you enter the high level numbers by the time you hit level 3, I don't think they are going to improve anything. It would just be more of the same, only sooner.

 

[Thonius]

Pathfinder kingmaker is a game where I had to buy potions and scrolls. ( Probably because I thought there are no time to rest) so time limit surely solves rest spam.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Now lets make a guess how the battles in pathfinder 2 will be.
Very few games sustain their difficulty until the end,ie age of decadence is an excellent example how to make encounters and keep the players interest untill the end.

'Difficulty' is a problem that will always plague nearly every PnP game directly adapted to video games unless they take extreme liberty with the ruleset(for an example of this, see SCS for BG 1 & 2.) It's just too easy to break D&D(and, by extension, Pathfinder) once you understand the rules -- especially so at high level play.
And to top it off, the developer's hands are largely tied behind their back because they can't do anything to fix obvious broken rules without autists PnP enthusiasts being absolutely butthurt, screaming and crying that they can't abuse mechanics anymore politely explaining the folly of their mistakes.

 

[RegionalHobo]

Now lets make a guess how the battles in pathfinder 2 will be.
Very few games sustain their difficulty until the end,ie age of decadence is an excellent example how to make encounters and keep the players interest untill the end.

age of decadence combat gets way easier in the second city. by the third you are terminator level, even with munchkin characters. then there are the power armor and regen shit that brake the game ( even if it s far worse in recent patches, since the a.i does not have a answer to running around regening). don t get me wrong i love the game, i just think it s not a good example of sustaining difficulty.

that said it s even harder to do in complex systems like tabletop based rpgs. i think pathfinder system is decent enough if anything i'd change difficulties names for retards egos not get hurt. i mean a sizable amount of people cried about muh core rules in a game it would be absolute garbage ( without rebalancing so max level would be way lower and less itens )

 

[santino27]

The Technic league first fight, you don't need to win it, right? you don't get a game over or anything, they just take one companion like they said they would before you fought them so I don't see the problem with that fight.

Second fight isn't hard, the 2 guards on the right don't alert the camp on the left so you can kill them and free the companion and mages and then fight the camp on the left, doesn't seem like a major fight.

Its been a while but the Technic league fight shows up during the prologue before you even become a baron, right?
IMO the problem is that you already only have a few companions at this point(iirc it depends on your alignment) and losing one could be a huge blow to newer players.
It would make sense to push it back into the first act because you would care a lot more about slavers doing illegal slave shit on your land, and you have a bigger stable of companions to pick from.

Given that the technic league encounters is how you get Octavia and Regongar, pushing it back would actually do more to hamstring your party in the pre-Baron stages than potentially losing a single character for the matter of days it takes to then go to the camp and get them back. Although I assume most of the players who were complaining just reloaded the initial fight until they won.